And welcome back to Vet Chat. I'm Catherine Bell from the webinar Vet, and today I am delighted to be joined by not one but two extraordinary leaders in their fields. Before we get started, I just wanted to say that today's episode explores an issue that is both deeply challenging and critically important for our profession.
The link between animal abuse and human abuse and the unique role veterinary professionals can play in safeguarding both. I just wanted to say this is a conversation that might be difficult for some people to hear, so if you're not in the correct headspace to listen to this today, then you know, please take good care of yourself and maybe come back another day or stick to another episode instead. So a quick introduction to our guests before we get started.
So first we have Doctor Paula Boysen. Paula graduated from the Royal Veterinary College, University of London in 1992. She spent 11 years in general practise before moving into a technical role in industry in 2003.
Paula joined Dogs Trust in 2010, where she was veterans director until spring 2025. Her responsibilities included oversight of Dogs Trust's veterinary matters, outreach and public affairs work. Paula has a particular interest in the link between the abuse of animals and the abuse of people and is current chair of the Links Group.
She is chair of the canine and feine sector group, sits on the RSPCA's prosecutions Oversight panel, the BVA's policy committee, and is a commissioner of the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission. Paula is also a founder member of the Association of Charity Vets, which is now the Shelter and Charity Vet Association. Paula has received the BSAVA's JA Wright Memorial Awards for her contribution to the welfare of companion animals in 2017.
The WSAVA's Global One Health Award in 2023 and the BVA's Outstanding Service Award in 2024. So welcome Paula, it's great to have you here at Vet Chat. Thank you.
We are also joined by Doctor Mary Wakeham, the CEO of Refuge for Pets and a Links Group Trustee. Mary has over 15 years of experience working in the domestic abuse sector. She founded Refuge for Pets in 2017, driven by her commitment to enable freedom from domestic abuse for all victims, survivors, both people and animals.
Mary is also a senior research associate at the University of Bristol with a specialism in the dynamics and implications of the use and abuse of animals in the context of domestic abuse, particularly animal abuse as a strategy of coercive control. Mary is currently researching the use and abuse of animals by perpetrators and domestic abuse related deaths, a study hosted at the University of Bristol and funded by DEFRA. So welcome Mary to Vet Chat, it's great to have you here too.
Thank you. So I guess to start a question to both of you, as I've just sort of discussed then, you know, you've both had remarkable careers spanning clinical work, research, charity, leadership, safeguarding, there's so much there. To start with, could you share a little bit about your journey and what drew you personally and professionally to the links group please?
Maybe if we start with you, Paula. Yeah, thanks Catherine. So as you mentioned, I spent over a decade in practise and then I went into industry, and the company at the time was Intervet UK, which is now MSD Animal Health.
And this was when I think our awareness of the link was really just starting. It was one of the corporate social responsibilities of Intervet and, and that really opened my eyes and you know, when, when, when I started to understand, I realised that there were at least. Couple of cases that I saw when I was in practise that at the time I knew something wasn't right, but then it became clear, I think I'm fairly sure they were non-accidental injury and, and when you start getting that knowledge it it becomes obvious because there's that common denominator of the human perpetrator.
That really opened my eyes to, to the link but also the work of the, the sort of the charitable sector. So when I moved across to Dogs Trust, I continued to. To do that work, obviously Dogs Trust has freedom, which, it's one of the specialist pet fostering services, so I was able to continue the work and obviously continue the work with the Links Group as well, and it, it's a privilege to be able to deliver the training to, to vets, to veterinary undergraduates, you know, so that they can be, be aware because these are the cases that will keep you awake at 3 o'clock in the morning.
Yeah, absolutely, so important, thank you. And how about yourself, Mary? Yeah, so as mentioned, my background is in the domestic abuse sector.
And I worked as what we call an independent domestic violence advocate, so supporting victim survivors who are at really high risk of homicide and suicide related to domestic abuse, and animals are a really significant barrier for victim survivors escaping domestic abuse. And there's very little options there too, so a lot of the refuge space that we have is not really geared up for animals, it's not suitable for animals, you've got children living there. You know, you've got shared facilities, and it really struck me that.
We need to do something about this, and this was in Devon and Cornwall and that's where refuge pets came from, so we thought we need to provide a service to victim survivors so that they can leave with their animals and so their animals can be safe. And the research has really gone on from there and meeting the links group, you know, and getting more and more involved in researching this issue because it is such a significant issue and it's really something that that we need to, you know, change so we're safeguarding people and animals. Mhm.
Yeah, fantastic, and for for people who might be listening in and this might be like a completely new concept for them, how would you sort of best explain the link between animal abuse and human abuse and why do you think it is so important that we understand it as a pattern rather than various isolated incidents? I think I'm probably using the quote from a colleague in the States called Phil Arkow, that when animals are abused, people are at risk, and when people are abused, animals are at risk. So whilst we cannot say that the, the person that abuses their partner is going to abuse the family pet or vice versa, if we have one, it should be giving us an index of suspicion that there may be other abuse happening in that household.
Certainly for obviously for veterinary professionals our our animal patients are our, our primary responsibility, but I think it's one, having the awareness so that we can recognise those those cases of, of what we call non-acciental injury and I think for, you know, as as vets we, we don't expect our clients to lie to us so it's quite a challenge to get your head around that. More on why would somebody deliberately hurt an animal and then bring it to me to get it fixed. And then the, the next element is obviously recognising that there may be other abuse happening.
You may have clients disclosing to you that they are also victim survivors of domestic abuse, and it's what to know in those situations, it, it, what's. Me what to know, what to do, and I think first and foremost it's really important to point out nobody's expected to step outside of their area of expertise. But obviously for abuse of animals it's reporting accordingly for survivors and I'll, I'll hand over to Mary because she's got much more experience in this, this field.
It's actually signposting people to where they can get the help and support that they need. Mhm. And this is a really significant, you know, this is really significant.
Domestic abuse is one of the most serious public health concerns that we experience, you know, we know 3.9 million adults will experience domestic abuse in England and Wales alone each year. You know, we know that 242 people will die because of domestic abuse related deaths, and that's tip of the iceberg stuff because meant there will be many more deaths that weren't attributed to domestic abuse that happened, you know.
And then when you think about, OK, so animals, the research would typically state that animals are abused by perpetrators of domestic abuse. In about half of all experiences of domestic abuse, maybe as much as 89% as Paula mentioned. So there are a lot of animals out there living with perpetrators of domestic abuse, and this is a high risk indicator of potential domestic abuse related deaths, so homicides and suicides.
We, we know that and we've known that for a long time, but we need to get better at actually really getting our heads around this and thinking, you know, this is somebody. That's abusing animals, it, you know, this is a significant risk warning, you know, and we should be worried about the people in that household too. Yeah, absolutely.
Can we talk a little bit about some of the like red flags that we should be looking out for and recognising, so in practise, for example, could you give me some examples from your experience and your research? What are some of the key behavioural or clinical or contextual red flags that should prompt veterinary team members to pause and. Think about it and think, you know, this might actually not be a non-acciental injury, it could be a wider safeguarding concern.
So I think from a a a clinical perspective, some of the key indicators and, and these come from a series of papers that were published in the Journal of Small Animal practise back in 2001 by Helen Munroe and Mike Thrusfield. And the, the sorts of things you're looking for is where the history is inconsistent with the injury, so generally the injury is far too severe for the history that's been given. Inconsistent history, so this could either be the, the same person saying different things to different members of the team or different members of, of the same family giving different stories and that's why, you know, I think one of the things I have learnt in my 20 plus years of working with the Links Group is that it's not just a vet thing, it's a vet team thing.
You know, no matter how good I might think I am at communicating as a vet, we know that clients will often much more readily and speak more openly to other members of the team, perhaps our veterinary nurses. You know, there's a whole host of things that may go on in the waiting room that we're not aware of. Yeah.
Repetitive injury should be giving us a really strong index of suspicion, you know, repetitive traumatic injuries and, and sitting alongside that, I would also suggest those families that have perhaps had multiple pets and we don't know what's happened to those pets. I think one of the challenges with these cases is they're not straightforward, so it's not an A + B equals C and that's what makes them so challenging. So you've got a variety of signs.
And then the. The behaviour of the owner and or the pet is in conjunction with one or more of those, those factors. So you might have somebody who's uneasy on questioning, who really doesn't, doesn't care about, you know, refers to the pet as it, blames the pet for the injuries, and similarly with the pet you may have, if, if we're talking about dogs, that they may, you know, be frightened of their owners, they may not want to go back to their owners.
But again, it, a whole range of signs that that you might see. And and this is why it's, it's really important that you know we just take that, that step back and have a think about what, what folks are saying to us, what we're seeing. So for example, somebody says, well, my dog jumped up at the stove and tipped a pan of scalding water over itself, but you've got a lesion on the top of the head.
Well if you've got a 30 kg golden retriever and they jumped up at the stove, that the lesion is gonna be down the brisket, not on the top of the head, . What you sometimes see, for example, with deliberate scald injuries is a very marked delineation between the scalded skin and the unaffected skin, whereas if it had been an accident, it would be a bit like you or I dropping a bottle of milk, you know, the, the, the, the liquid goes everywhere, you're cleaning it up for weeks afterwards, so you expect to see those splash scalds. So these things that look genuine on the face of it, you take a step back and, and it doesn't actually quite fit.
Yeah. OK, that makes sense, thank you. Anything you wanted to add there, Mary?
Yes, I would say just it's that professional curiosity. So not nec necessarily taking what is said as you know, as that is absolutely what happened. It's just about having that professional curiosity, you know, and not being expected to be the expert in domestic abuse at all, but just, you know, questioning, is that really what happened?
You know, and showing that empathy because potentially you've got a victim of domestic abuse there as well in front of you. OK, thank you. And what should people do who are listening, as you said, Paula, you know, it might not just be vets, it could be anybody in the veterinary team.
If they're not 100% certain, they have the suspicions that it's a non-accidental injury, but they don't feel completely certain, what would you say the appropriate steps are in that situation? I think first and foremost nobody's expected to be an expert in abuse as as Mary's already said. If you're, you know, if you have suspicions, and then first and foremost I'll be, you know, chatting the case through with my colleagues.
We'd always say, you know if you can get to know your local SPCA inspector and, and by doing that you've automatically got an, an informal resource, somebody to bounce these questions off without breaching any client confidentiality at all. If at that point, you know, you, you're then at the point of, of making a decision that if you still have that what we'd call that gut feeling, I would still suggest that you do speak to somebody you do report it on and I, I think that the thing to bear in mind is that if we, you know, if we're talking about non-accidental injury in an animal. You're reporting it to the RSPCA, it, it could be a, OK, you know, we, we, we've logged it, but equally it could be the final piece in a jigsaw, and, and we don't know where on that spectrum it is going to be.
So, if you are in any doubt, then please do speak to somebody about it rather than than than sitting on it because it, it is the one that's gonna wake you up at 3 in the morning. Yeah, absolutely. OK.
Anything to add there Mary? Yeah, I would also say as well, it it's probably about knowing your local domestic abuse service too, or at least having the number for the National Domestic Abuse Helpline because that is one way that you can really help somebody. It's just by giving them that link.
You're not on your own, you know, and here's a number you can contact these people, they will be there for you. So just having that information somewhere within your your vet practise is really important because you never know when you might need it. Brilliant, that's great advice, thank you.
And if there's any numbers that'd be useful for us to share as well, you know, with this podcast, just let us know and we can definitely pop them up too. So yeah, just sticking with the kind of emotional toll and you know team wellbeing, as you've sort of said, these cases can be really quite. Emotionally heavy and quite morally complex sometimes.
What sort of impact do you feel that they can have on teams and what can these teams do to protect their own wellbeing? Well, obviously balancing the safeguarding responsibilities as well that they have. I mean, you, you, you're quite right, Catherine.
I think these cases are emotionally challenging. They're difficult to work through. And I think that there, there's two aspects here.
Obviously we're, we're primarily talking about our clients and our patients, but bearing in mind that the profession is now probably 80% female, we should be looking sideways as well at our colleagues because equally we may have colleagues who have experience of, of domestic abuse. It, it is that making sure that we chat these cases through with our colleagues. I would also strongly advise that any practise has, a protocol of how to, how to deal with a, a case if they, they come across one and, and, and this is where I'd refer you to the links group guidance so I, I can pop the link across to you.
So it sits on the links website and the whole principle behind that guidance is to encourage every practise to have a. Protocol that works for them so that they can, you know, if they have then have a situation because we, we know that a lot of these cases will happen out of hours, you know, so it's, it's important to know that. The other thing that we, we do have at, at our fingertips, so, IVC Evidencia now have an NAI helpline.
Now it's, it's not just for vets and it's not just for IVC practises, it's for any, any veterinary practise. And and anybody within that team. That helpline is supported by a team of vets and veterinary nurses who have experience of dealing with non-accidenal injury in animals.
So it's, it's a, a great sounding board. So if you have, you know, you want to chat a case through, you've automatically got that safe space without breaching any confidentiality about, OK, what can I do about it. So it's brilliant that we now have that.
Resource available. And and the other thing I would suggest I think with any practise if they have dealt with a case is make sure that they perhaps have a, you know, a, a reflective session afterwards just to chat it through so that, you know, to, to, to check in with colleagues and make sure that they are OK with, you know, the, the decisions that have been made and how the practise has handled it. Yeah, that's really good advice.
I think when everything's so busy, it can be really difficult to remember to, you know, to stop and remember to do those things, but it could add real value by doing them, I'm sure. And that's great that there's that you know, is it a helpline, did you say that it's available now for people to contact? Yes, so it's, it's via a QR code.
It just takes you a very simple form, you know, who are you, how can we get hold of you, what's the situation that you're dealing with, and the, the, the team supporting it will aim to get back to you within 3 hours, but if it is an emergency, there is a phone number there that you can contact to, to get some immediate advice with regard to the case that you were dealing with and. And, and this is why we know from the, I mean the, the, the line's been running probably 18 months to 2 years now. And it's very clear that a lot of these cases are happening out of hours, which again, if you think about it is quite logical because that's when abusers, and their, their, their victim survivors are gonna be together when they get home from work in the evening or whatever.
Yeah. OK, brilliant, thank you. Anything Mary that you wanted to add there?
I know Paula shared a little bit about kind of what support and training the links group can offer to veterinary teams. Is there anything else around that that you wanted to touch upon? It's just that sharing of information, isn't it?
I think is key. It's, it's not holding onto it yourself, not burdening yourself with all of that responsibility cos when you talk through these cases, these scenarios, you know, that's really, really helpful in terms of thinking about all avenues. But what I would say as well, so the domestic abuse helplines, of which there are a number, the National Domestic Abuse Helpline, the Respect Men's Advice line, the Gallup line, and we've got all of those on our links group website.
But you as professionals, the the vet teams can phone those numbers too for advice. They are there to, you know, to advise anyone that's worried that somebody else might be experiencing domestic abuse, so you can reach out to to any of those services too. Brilliant, that's great, thank you.
Do you feel like there's been positive changes over safeguarding awareness within the veterinary profession? Is there still some gaps that you think need to improve or what are your thoughts on that? In short, yes, I think there have been some, some great steps forward.
So for example, the, our CVS Code of Professional conduct, the supporting guidance on client confidentiality has been amended and strengthened over the years. So there's always a concern about breaching confidentiality and, and I, I, I don't talk about this lightly because I know it's a big thing. But in short, if animal welfare or the public interest is compromised, then you can breach confidentiality and, and that was further strengthen.
And back in 2019 and in 2023 that now gives examples where you might consider breaching. So if, you know, animal abuse is suspected, is child or domestic abuse is suspected. And it also now says, and this applies to both vets and, and RVNs, you know, if you make a, a report in good faith because you believe animal welfare or the public interest is compromised, the college will support you in that decision.
So again, that's, it's really positive that we have the support of the Royal College. With these cases, but it also says very, very clearly that nobody is expected to be an expert in abuse. It's really important with these sorts of cases that we, we do very much stick within our, you know, our, our swim lanes in terms of our capabilities and our responsibilities.
You know, there are other people that we can refer to, absolutely. So I think that's a, a big, big step forward. I think the other things in terms of safeguarding is that I think as a, as a nation we are much more open to talking about.
Domestic abuse now and that you know it's, it's OK to talk about it. And, and therefore there are, you know, there is obviously wider support there. I think the other thing from the veterinary profession perspective, so as the Links Group we have been delivering training to veterinary undergraduates for about 20 years now and that's all the way through that's been generously supported by MSD Animal Health to allow us to get out to the vet schools.
And we're just, we're just last year started our second round of training for. Vet teams that's been generally supported by BSAVA so we're working our way around the BSAVA regions. So, you know, providing that training, that understanding, knowing what to look for, I, I think again it, it's, it, it does help with that wider safeguarding, but you know it's, I, I, I think you know, whilst we're not mandated to report, there are clear moral and ethical, you know, considerations if, if we do suspect, you know, that we have either a, a patient or we have a client that, that, you know, has been abused.
Brilliant, thank you, that's great Paula, and anything to add there Mary? I can probably speak sort of more generally, so I think that we need to do more to integrate the safeguarding of people and animals, so I think there's a lot more we can do in that space. I'm not talking specifically about the veterinary team now, I'm talking about, you know, all of the teams working with with animals primarily and and human services as well.
So animal health and welfare and human health and welfare services. So I think there's more that we can do, but I am feeling optimistic and it was brilliant to see. You know, all the great work that's been happening is, really got us to the point where when the Violence Against Women and Girls strategy was released just before Christmas, we had 4 mentions of animals.
So it'd be great to see more, but we had 4 mentions and that's good progress and one of those recognises the importance of the veterinary team and continuing to train the veterinary team. Services for victim survivors who have got animals, so our specialist accredited links group, pet fostering services, microchipping and the risks that are surrounded by microchipping and the research that we're doing at the moment which is looking specifically at the use and abuse of animals by perpetrators, where there's domestic abuse related deaths. So that's really positive.
And then when we look to the animal welfare legislation that came out at the same same time. There's a mention of domestic abuse, so we're starting to make the connection in our legislation between the abuse of animals and the abuse of people. That's a great step forward.
Yeah, absolutely. Brilliant, and then. I guess just to to wrap up because we're close to the end of our time already, if there's one message that you would really like to share with every veterinary professional who might be listening today to take away with them about the links and their role in safeguarding, what would that be?
Any advice for people, any messages? I, I think from, from my perspective, I'm very aware that these cases cause a lot of emotional angst and, and concern, particularly when we're talking about breaching confidentiality and reporting, and, and often we're, you know, we're, we're confronted with the question, well, what if I'm wrong and I report, but I would actually turn that on its head and say, but what if you're right and you haven't reported. So you know, if you have concerns, please do speak to somebody about them rather than, you know, as Mary mentioned, keep them to yourself, because, and I, and, and again I don't say this flippantly, it could literally save a life.
Yeah. Thanks Paula. Very similar for me, is that professional curiosity.
Trust your judgement, trust your instincts, work together as a team, you don't carry this weight of responsibility on your own, but professional curiosity is really, really key. Mhm. OK brilliant, thank you.
Oh it's great, thank you both so much. I know as we sort of said at the start, you know it can be a really difficult thing to talk about and you know it but it's really important and you know really appreciate you both taking the time to come on the podcast to talk to us about this and hopefully it will, you know make a big difference, you know the not only the awareness but hopefully just some of the tips that you've shared and. You know, things about protocols and all the advice that people can find online and various things like that, you know, I'm sure everything will, will make a big difference, so thank you both so much for being here today and yeah, as I said at the start, you know, any information that you've talked about, whether it's the telephone numbers or QR codes or links to various things, you know, we can make sure we put them on the webinar vets platform and they're there then if people need to access them.
Thanks Catherine. Lovely, thanks Bob, thanks Mary.
