So good evening everybody, and thank you very much for joining us for this this this evening's talk. Tonight we have a wonderful presentation on leadership and management by Gillian Page, and this presentation has been very kindly sponsored by MWI Animal Health. Gillian was one of the first veterinary nurses in the UK to own a veterinary practise and was co-founder of Eton Veterinary Hospital, which opened in 1999.

And then this progressed to an to a purpose-built veterinary hospital in 2006. Jillian was part of the design team and co-project managed to build. She managed the sale to IVC in 2017, but continues as the role of business director.

As centre manager for the College of Animal Welfare, she was involved as deputy programme leader in the setting up of Scotland's first BSC honours degree in veterinary nursing. Her interest in leadership, practise, culture and clinical clinical workflow. She holds the European School of Veterinary Postgraduate Studies.

And the certificate of Business and Professional skills. Gillian is senior vice president of the Veterinary Management Group of which she was president in 2019 to 2020. So that's over to you, Gillian.

Hi, everyone. It's lovely to be online with you this evening and thank you Caroline for that introduction. Why elephants?

Well, they do have a wonderful natural ability and leadership, and that has inspired me to use images of them on quite a few occasions now, actually. And, personally, there's something incredibly life affirming and reassuring, if not comforting, when looking at elephants. But I'll come back to our great friends and their leadership approach a little later.

It's a topical subject anyway, isn't it? Leadership. But I think it's safe to say that for those of us in a leadership or management position over this past 8 months through the COVID-19 pandemic, have probably experienced the biggest challenge we've faced in our working lives to date.

A challenge like no other, we've been put through our paces as never before, adapting, recalibrating on a weekly if not daily basis. And like many, I have on occasion felt it overwhelming. Accepting that this crisis looks set to continue for some time.

Comes a recognition that strong leadership and management has never been of greater value. Actually, it will be interesting to know what history rates of the differences and quality of the global leadership through this won't it. But tonight, I'd like to look at both concepts and how they need to go hand in hand for a business to be successful.

So the London et Show in 2015 following consultation with the vet profession. PDA and RCVS launched the VET Futures project. The recommendations from the project resulted in an action plan being launched at the VET Futures summit in July the following year, and the hope of that project was to make us a profession fit to face the future.

One of the ambitions from the report was to provide exceptional leadership, and recommendations on how to do that was to explore ways to develop the next generation of veterinary leaders, so identifying and nurturing talent and providing them with the skills and opportunities that they would need to succeed. Also to develop and communicate communicate clear routes to a wide range of leadership roles in our profession. And to develop lifelong learning and leadership.

It's not just our profession where management and leadership has been highlighted. In recent times, due to, well, several scandals and mismanagement in other sectors, so public and private, such as banks and the NHS on occasion, these subjects have moved up the agenda. But some time ago now, I was reading an interesting article written by Professor John Cotter.

And he he's a professor of leadership at Harvard Business School, and he tells us that the problem is understanding the difference between management and leadership. So I'll look at the differences between management and leadership, where the two overlap, and how when an organisation is run well. They work together and they are complementary.

To start though, there are thought to be 3 main misconceptions about managers and leaders. One, that the terms are used interchangeably quite often. And so people thus failing to understand the crucial differences in the function.

That often people in leadership positions refer to a hierarchical top, and that they automatically presume subordinates to be managers. And then there's the, the third one, which leadership is commonly thought to be characteristic, such as charismatic, leading automatically to a conclusion that there's just a few people who can ever provide leadership. So what is management?

Well, it's a set of processes and the systems and they're all running together to make an organisation work. And basically the processes are planning, organising, controlling, budgeting, problem solving, and staffing. So management is about efficiency, and it's based on results through systems and processes, controls and structures.

It's so management is about dealing with all of this complexity, and to bring about an order and a structure so that the organisation can function smoothly. So a manager, well, How could we do without managers? Managers make organisations function the way that they were designed to function.

They make the important integration happen, and they do this by working closely together with all of the practise teams, so administration, reception, nurses, vets, support, the bridge any gaps in communication. And for those of you that are doing or have done that job in a vet you practise, you'll know that it's not always an easy or indeed a pleasant task. Managers have the remit to hire, promote, discipline, or when needed, dismiss members of staff in relation to behaviour or performance.

We'd have to say though that Sometimes employees only follow a manager because of their job title, and usually it's because leadership is lacking, so they follow them because of the title that they would hold in any practise or organisation. Not every manager. Will lead just as not just as not every leader will manage.

It seems especially true now, actually, when our teams more and more seem to look to us as managers and leaders to not only give a practical task to be done, but also to be their mentor and to give a sense of purpose, I think. It's a very topical subject, leadership, isn't it? But the study of leadership does actually date back to somewhere around the turn of the 20th century.

We hear the term leadership branded about all over the place these days, but what does it mean and how does it affect the way that we work? Within a practise. And at a time in our profession when perhaps it could be argued, our hierarchy is flattening.

And as I said earlier with the current pandemic, then the need for strong leadership is even greater. And what's that about? Well, leadership is about the empowerment of people.

It's about change, and it's about creating an environment that will motivate and inspire others. It's people who excel at inspiring others. It considers future goals and future generations and the impact that decisions made now will have on those generations and inspiring others to align with those goals, creating a vision.

Honest communication. I was actually listening to an elderly leader, I think it was Canada, a few days ago who was saying that in his area, his family, They actually consider 7 generations ahead. That's remarkable.

Great leadership has the potential to excite people to extraordinary levels of achievement. Leaders can assess situations quickly, act decisively. The communication is open, direct, honest, and we would say that it's a continuous process though, and not one that is only for the heads of large organisations.

Leadership is about finding new opportunities, looking at the horizon. We've already said motivating, inspiring others, driving change. And yeah, it's a continuous process.

We recognise that the face of that practise is changing. It's more progressive, it's more competitive, more commercially aware. We have concerns over the future.

Workforce, sustaining it, and we have concerns about practise profit or the lack of it. So practises will need to be willing to change, to adapt to their environment, and leadership will be about or is about helping the practise adapt to these changes by providing a vision and setting a direction and motivating staff. So leadership is based on results and effectiveness through trust, inspiration, and people.

And it would be important to remember, though, I think that the position of a leader can sometimes be a temporary one, as it's based on that person being able to continue to inspire and motivate people. I said I'd come back to elephants and their natural leadership. And so I'm going to digress a little bit here.

One, because I do think there are lessons for us in it, and we can learn from them. And two, isn't it sometimes just nice to see a really strong, lovely image. So research would indicate that just like us, having a hierarchy provides a practical and psychological value for elephants by fulfilling a deep-seated need for order and security.

A herd comprises usually 6 to 12 elephants, and it's led by the wisest and the oldest female known as the matriarch. So the herd relies on her to to lead and to make decisions regarding the course of action that should be taken. So you would think that the size and the weight of an elephant would be used to lead her herd, but it's not so.

Although research confirms that many animals, including lions, dogs, chimpanzees, leadership is established by being dominant with others, it's not so with the elephant alpha female. Who emerges not according to the strongest or most aggressive personality, but because of the respect that she earns by other elephants. She demonstrates leadership through her wisdom, strength, extraordinary skills and problem solving, a social intelligence, openness, decisiveness, patience, confidence, compassion.

The gift of the seven personality characteristics is what helps her live up to an incredible 70 years old and still endure. Now, this beautiful lady is Echo, an African bush elephant matriarch, and perhaps you know her already because Echo and her family have been the subject of many studies, books, films and documentaries. Incidentally, she was called Echo after the radio device that, Cynthia Moss, a researcher, fitted to her back way back in 1973.

And unusually, Echo became a matriarch at the age of only 23, and she led her herd up until her death following a bad drought at the age of 64. Absolutely amazing. So she had many calves, and one of those calves, Eli, provided a valuable case study.

One on the emotional connections within an elephant herd. It's a heartwarming and short story, and we could do with them just now, couldn't we? So I'm going to relay that to you.

So Eli had become cramped in Echo's swim. He was 22 months of pregnancy, and he was born with rigid carpal joints, which made it almost impossible for him to walk. So that condition made it risky for the herd to care for him, and they had to do without food to do that.

But still, the whole herd stayed with him until he could walk. So inspiring. So though it's a sad way to lose an animal like Echo, she will have left her daughter Ella, who now leads the herd, with the essential leadership skills to care for that herd and hopefully somewhere down the line, Ella and time will impart those traits to another procession of elephants.

Let's look at some specific differences between the two. Go light them up quite quickly now, so. Managers, administers leadership, innovates, Management does the right thing.

Does things right? No, they don't does things right. Leadership does the right thing.

Management accepts reality, leadership investigates it. Management maintains, leadership develops. Management rely on control, leadership inspires trust.

Management tend to ask how, when leadership ask what why. Management imitates, leadership originates. Management, no choice, not really sure I agree with that one on this table, and leadership.

People follow leaders voluntarily. We've said before, before, due to their characteristics. In addition to all of those differences, basic differences, perhaps the greatest separation between management and leadership is that leaders don't actually have to hold a position of management.

A person can become a leader in the practise or organisation without having an official title. So the basis of leadership is on the personal qualities of that leader. People tend to follow leaders because of who they are and what they stand for, not because of the authority that might be bestowed upon them by that organisation.

Now, I've included the next table by John Cotter. The Professor of leadership that I mentioned in my introduction, because it's a good summary of his thinking. And for those of you who like a good table, I think you'll appreciate it.

Now, obviously, I'm not an authority on the subject, but he is, and so, I'll let you just digest that for for a moment. You can see there again some of the differences between the two. So leadership, establishing direction, aligning people, motivating mentoring, inspiring, producing change, management, planning and budgeting, organising and staffing, controlling problem solving, producing predictability and order, more functional, isn't it?

And then I thought I would just slip in another . Detailed simple. Table, and that is one by Gillian Rodd, and I included that for the same reason, it's good, but also because she is British.

So after viewing those, you may want to go and do some. For the reading. Although there are clear differences between management and leadership, the two do overlap.

Both involve influencing, achieving goals and working with people. When managers are involved in influencing a group to meet its goals, then they're involved in leadership. And when leaders are involved in planning, organising, staffing and controlling, then they are involved in management.

So both processes involve influencing a group of individuals towards achieving a goal. And when a practise is set up and running well, then it tends to be that management and leadership are running hand in hand. So for example, A manager's job would be to set a target that they would want that practise to aim for.

So for example, they, they might want to reduce client waiting times. Then someone in the practise would take up the leadership position and demonstrate to other members of the practise team why this is so important. That by meeting the set target of the manager.

Of reducing client waiting times, then the team benefit, less stress. The patient benefits, improved clinical outcome, client benefits, increased confidence in the practise, and for the business, well, better clinical outcomes and improved client confidence leads to clients returning more often, which helps business performance. Now I see.

I said someone in the practise, because the idea that only a few people can inspire and lead others, or that managers only ever execute plans is not true. And I actually think it can be quite damaging to continue to promote Those ideas I've often thought that maybe it's because leadership needs to become more human, and perhaps managers need to start thinking that they do have an ability to lead, they can learn the skills, but also they do have a responsibility to to lead other people. Sometimes it's just easier to illustrate a point and make things clearer by using images, isn't it?

And so I thought I would do just that and a few examples. Of images for leaders, managers, and those who it would appear anyway would be fortunate enough to To do both. Now, I would want to say here that these figures haven't been chosen because of any personal preference that I may have.

Well, I say that, but perhaps except for Obama because I still do have a soft spot for him, wouldn't we wish for that reasoned approach now. But rather, people that I thought might fit that category of leader or manager, or both, and you may looking at those, well, that you might well disagree with some, or indeed all of the choices, but they're really just, I've put them up there to encourage. Our thoughts and perhaps conversation.

Obviously not at this time, but at some point. So looking at those images, I'd like to pick a couple of figures who I'm sure you would agree you were recognised as a great leaders, but probably not as managers. So if we considered Winston Churchill and Steve Jobs, for instance, then they probably were wonderful and inspiring people.

But the people, but the people, but the problem with making a few hero people, which is one sometimes what you think, certain figures will become. But the problem with making a few hero people is that it makes us think that there are only a very few people that can lead. And the problem with believing that is that at any one time, there will only ever be a few of them around.

And obviously, the problem with that is that we then wait for a very few people to make the world work, we're not going to be going anywhere fast. So we should remember too, that it's never just one person making a place work, it will be a whole team. And we need managers, as we've said, to understand the systems and the processes, and make things run smoothly and integrate in the practise, improve communication.

But to bear in mind that not all managers can or would want to lead. And then there's a few people who it would appear, but we don't really know. Who would appear to do both.

But supposing we don't have Jacinda Ardern in the practise, then perhaps a better idea would be to encourage individuals to learn the key skills of leadership, and we all can. The thing is, if more people within the practise can take a leadership guy rope. Then who knows how far reaching those results could be?

Just a few I noted down here. So we would have increased staff satisfaction with working conditions. So people would be able to have input and contribute to the practise that they work in.

So they would be growing and developing themselves. We'd have a more efficient and effective way of working, which may allow for a greater throughput of cases, but without the usual resulting chaos and stress that that often brings. And we do know that.

And we can apply it to ourselves, happier, more content people tend to stay in their jobs longer. And so that that would aid the retention rates in the profession. All of that has a direct effect on the reputation of the practise, leads to an increased client confidence, increased footfall, increased turnover, and if we're managing the practise well, then profitability, and ultimately longevity of the business and saving of jobs.

So yes, leadership is about results, but it's not just about achievement, it's about meaning. Yeah, I think people, especially nowadays, are looking for constancy and and meaning in our work. We, well, we all are looking for constancy and meaning in their work, as well as in our lives.

One of the greatest questions of people regarding a management leadership role, please do tell me, what you, Lewis, if any, if you feel that the sound is fading again, and I can stop, but I'll just continue. So one of the greatest questions of people regarding the management leadership role is, have I the right to lead? And if I do, will others follow.

So often when we take up a new position of responsibility, we do ask ourselves that question. And I think it's because either we have a natural awareness to ask that question, or our confidence towards our new role is a little lacking. So with each stage of my own career development, I've asked the same question from the early years as a lead RVN right through until eventually owning a practise.

In my early years, and I'm not saying that was in the 1800s, but it was near enough, I was offered a head nurse position and I was apprehensive about accepting it. And that wasn't until a colleague asked what the date was, that I think I was capable of lead position. So I went home and made a list, and I made a list of all the things that I had done in my life to date, that could have contributed towards me having, holding a lead position, and I came up with 5 things.

Everyone's might be different, but I came up with personal values and beliefs, a professional way of being. I considered the inspirations that I'd had had along the way and isn't inspiration powerful. My confidence towards the job to take that next career step.

I reflected on my career and the resulting knowledge and skills gained, and then the confidence of my colleagues in me. And interestingly, when I thought of when I made those notes and I looked at that list. Then it changed my view of the opportunity.

Just as an aside, I've applied that same confidence boosting technique to each chapter so far, and it's it's worked quite well. So I, I'm going to move on to putting leadership and management into a practise, and I'd like to chat through a personal experience of that. So for anyone who tuned into the webinar vet and clinical workflow in September will already be aware of this practise journey, but bear with me.

So in 1999, my partner Tony and I set up our own practise and several high street banks had said no to funding. We took out personal loans, bought land, equipment, and rented a port cabin. I would just say I wouldn't recommend that way of doing it.

It's very expensive, but needs must. So in the early days, we had 3 to 4 people in the practise, and so we had a very loose structure, which was that we spoke to each other around an operating table. That was about the size of it.

And then in 2005, we got the green light to go ahead and start building the new hospital. So, Ayrton opened in 2006. I'm frequently asked about the name of the building and is it a place in Scotland?

And the answer is no. I mentioned just a minute ago about the importance of inspiration and that we all need it at times, don't we? So the necessity for all of us to have inspiration in whatever form that might take.

So family, music, sport, literature, art, climbing, anything actually. But no. My animal inspiration for the name of the new hospital was him, our cat Ayton, and he was called after my personal inspiration.

Ayrton Senna, the Formula One racing driver. So the new hospital opened in 2006, so 14 years ago. And although our clinical work continues to progress, develop and grow, the the management systems and processes that were put in place, although we've improved them over time, are fundamentally the same.

The structure is fundamentally the same. So many people questioned at that time whether our approach to a general practise of working. Sorry, to a general practise working of creating and implementing systems, processes, structure, a clinical workflow, utilising the team to full potential, controlling bad debt.

Whether it would be necessary, first of all, or would it be doable in a general practise, but I think that 14 years later, and as a whole team contributing, that question has been answered because it has been a sustainable model. But the reason that we As a group, believe it's been a sustainable model, is the good mix of management and leadership key skills that we had within that business. I think with those two concepts actually running well together, any practise would have a would have a bright future.

Now, I'll make no apology for this, but I am absolutely passionate about workflow. The way that we work in terms of it being ordered, logical, efficient and smooth, it's an essential foundation for the whole thing working. It's an essential management.

Tool, I would say. So when we moved into the new building, it was clear that we needed to and quickly create and implement a new management structure. Now it just so happens that being a workflow enthusiast and some may unkindly say geek, that I had spent the years before that we were waiting for the green light to build, I had written an Ayton workflow manual.

I probably hadn't discovered the West Wing at that point. But with the new management structure and systems written and in place. It was important that the team already with the practise, and any new colleagues joining us understood the reasons why the practise had been set up to work that way.

The vision of it, if you like. So leadership in this new undertaking, and one of the most important aspects of leadership, communication, it was essential that we got it right. So We decided that the day the practise opened, we would close it.

And the reason that we did that was so that we might have an induction day into our new working home. So we asked the local practise in advance to cover for us, believe it or not, and they kindly said yes. So In our induction day in our seminar room, all together, we discussed why we were moving.

The different mindset that would be needed to go from a small port cabin to a vet hospital. We communicated the vision for the practise and the contribution that each person had all made and the part that we had all played in that. So everyone had to be aware and have agreed the path on which we were moving forward.

We did, just thinking about that, we did actually focus quite a bit on mindset, but also on why it's important and the benefits to everyone that a working structure is put in place and just as important that it is actually maintained and that we have the discipline to do that. So that when colleagues joined us, that they fit with the spine or the structure of the practise, and not that the practise is forever changing and moving to fit individuals. Now that's not to say, that's not to say that we were in any way rigid.

We certainly weren't, we certainly aren't, and we were adapting and evolving with all of the team con contribution. But this isn't about individuals. It's about a group working for a purpose.

And so we're, we're lucky in this profession because our jobs also have meaning. As a team, we decided that the foundation of this new practise or new hospital ongoing practise would be built. The foundation would be built on these four things.

So structure, communication, education, and a standardised approach. And the benefits of having that discipline, and I do actually think it comes down to that, are to ensure a consistent and good standardised quality approach throughout the practise. And that results in improved in clinical outcomes for patients and increased client satisfaction, increased staff morale and business performance and growth.

We, I think just to say, we were also keen to encourage the individuals in our team to avoid becoming blinkered. So although reception, nursing assistants, admin, vets, nurses all do have Specific roles and focus and the practise that they also understand other roles and the challenges faced in that role, so that they can better support it, I suppose. When we were in the port a cabin, the various tasks, areas and responsibilities looked something like this.

A wee bit all over the place, actually, when you view that when we moved into Ayton and we encouraged a shared responsibility amongst us, we turned it into this. And it was one of the first things we did actually to encourage growth and contribution and shared responsibility and improvement. And I suppose accountability so that we maintain the standards was to allocate different areas of the practise to each person and obviously everybody would have a preference and an input to that.

It's it's an ongoing process and it does change, . But it's an example of some of the systems and processes that we embedded into the practise to help workflow, to help people understand others' roles and the importance of those rules and to grow an individual leadership skills. Before I start on that, I, I would like to offer here though that just in case anyone's thinking it's.

What a what a wonderful thing to be able to do at this time. I would say that due to COVID-19, reduced numbers of the team, and previous furlough adapted ways of working and on and on, we have gotten off a little. We've gone off track a little.

But when we're on track. So we introduced in the new building team meetings, mostly between prep and theatre team would discuss the procedures of the day, what order they would be done in, when, with who, timed, where, so a clinical workflow. We made our wardros more regimented, so that that allowed for patient updates, and that reception or ward nurses were able to communicate accurately and confidently to owners about the progress of their pet.

And it also gave the opportunity to update clients on ongoing or rising costs. Clinical governance, weekly clinical meets to ensure support for the vet team so that they were able to discuss cases, successes, problematic cases. And also to give us the confidence that we had an improved quality way of working and that we were that we were accountable and meeting those agreed standards, but also that we continue to maintain them.

We slotted into every vet day allocated time for case management. So whether you were on a consulting rotation or whether you were a theatre one, you would have time during the day around an hour. For just to think, really, just to manage your case, so look at diagnostic results, and phone owners give instruction to the team around you on inpatient care, that sort of thing.

So just time to be able to think and manage cases well. We had, we introduced a theatre rotating lead. So to give the nursing team within theatre and prep a chance to each week they would lead that team through surgery.

And that was very interesting to see some very young colleagues develop incredibly quickly through having that level of responsibility. We've already looked at staff areas of responsibility, awareness of other rules. It's not something we do so much now, but certainly, for, for a period of time, we would have reception spend time in prep.

We would have nursing spend time on reception. We would have, we never, interestingly enough had vets spend any time on reception, but we had people move around the building looking for other folk do. I think most people enjoyed it.

A Friday team debrief, it's something we have a very seldom managed because of the busyness of the day, but it was in our management systems. And so I've put it down there because it is something we will strive to do. And growing leadership through encouraging more contribution through the team taking areas, individual areas.

Just going to go back to that actually I was thinking a moment there, so I was a wee bit quiet. I was just thinking that in In all of these areas, actually, everyone does contribute and that grows leadership skills. But what I've noticed is there usually is in each of these areas, one person in the group that takes up that leadership position of conveying to others that this is something important, and they demonstrate it.

It's probably a personal interest, isn't it? But someone who demonstrates confidence, discipline, professional conduct, gives direction, lessons, encourages others. Leadership involves teaching and everyone has something that they can teach.

So the whole team needs to be aware that taking this leadership guy rope. But Moving on from the clinical side because it's not all about clinical work, is it? Leadership, management, we do need to develop our softer side and skills.

So sometime after opening, we had grown in numbers, and we thought it would be an idea to have a project where the whole team could contribute and come up with our agreed values that we would strive to work to each day. We had an all team meeting and came up with the idea of a values board for displaying the practise. It's quite a common thing now you could argue, but it certainly wasn't at that time.

So we held a project meeting. We set the scene of what we would like to achieve, and then everyone shouted out words that were important to them. Once we had the words, we thought of colours to go with them, and we had a local print company create a board, and this was the result.

So it's the first thing that we see when we come through the back door in the morning, and it's the thing that we see large every time we go up and down the stairs. It is actually a real mood lifter. You know, when you, you look and you see a word like kind, one of my favourite words along with hope, and it's in bright and soft pink.

Very often that raises a smile. So reflecting on my own own career path, what have I learned most about good leadership from both sides of of a management team? Well, firstly, sometimes what stops us from fulfilling a leadership role is a lack of being authentic with others.

And what I mean by that, is that we can feel a need to appear to be something that we're perhaps not, we're afraid to be ourselves, to be genuine. We can afraid to be individual and If you're not yourself, and truly yourself with people, it can, it can get in the way of you leading a team actually. So if we need people.

Should we have the wisdom and courage to be genuine, be consistent, be passionate, be individual? Some people are lucky enough to possess those traits naturally, but for most, it involves lifelong learning and developing. Experience has taught me that it's easier to lead a team when I'm working alongside them, being able to demonstrate that consistency, judgement, vision, knowledge, enthusiasm than it is from behind a desk.

And on those times being on the ground floor in a more doing role, it is challenging to be the best manager. Leadership's many things. Self and team development, encouraging, listening, enthusiasm, strategic thinking, integrity, wisdom.

Someone who tends to think of a whole civic minded, and I'm sure every person could come up with many more . Descriptions. But sometimes I come back to.

2, just 2 things. One is, Having the willing willingness to adapt and develop, and that's ongoing. And the second thing is having that courage to be an individual, having open, direct and honest communication with the people around us.

So Being, being authentic. I just love that image. So in summary, Management leadership are not the same thing, but they are linked and they are complementary.

Management leadership go hand in hand for a practise to be successful. And that successful leaders earn respect through their wisdom, confidence, and connection with others, and they're not afraid to be individual. So perhaps It's time for a review of the relationship between leadership and management and our own individual practises.

Are they all they could be? And on a personal level, I'd like to ask when you go back into work, whenever that may be, or more likely have your next Zoom team call. That you have that self-confidence to be individual, be enthusiastic, be direct and genuine with the others working beside you.

With the knowledge that by doing so, you can make a difference to the working lives of your colleagues, the clinical outcome for patients, the satisfaction of clients, and a significant contribution to the success of that business. Thank you. Thank you very much, Gillian.

That was really, really interesting. I think it's kind of, hopefully it's inspired lots of people going back into practise to, to, to, to, to, to do the, to do even both, to try and do as, as, as much as they can and to try and inspire, the rest of their team. So I've, I've, if anyone has any questions that you would like to put to Gillian, you can just type into the question and answer box, and then I'll put them to Gillian for her to answer.

So I'll give you a minute or two to type them in if there's any questions. Gillian, what I really liked is that, was your, oh gosh, I can't remember the board that you that you put together with all of the inspiration, board. The valve.

That's the one I've literally vanished out my mind. I, I really, really like that, and I can imagine that's really quite nice to see when if you've had a busy day and you've, you know, you've all been working really hard to actually see that. Just to actually try and keep, keep everyone happy and motivated and actually remember why, why everyone's in this position in in in this career.

Absolutely. And you know, it was quite a powerful thing at the time, Caroline, that everyone shouted out individual words that were particularly important to them. And when you transfer that, those words to something that's so visible, it did have quite an impact on everyone.

Yeah, I really like that. I think that's something I might, I might, I might pinch and try and maybe get that implemented in my my practise as well. So I've had one question come through from Suzanne.

She said it's a great lecture. And how long did you say you allocated free time for case management for vets? And was that every day?

That they got that same amount of time. Yes, Suzanne, it is that, it is that, sorry, it is set every day. So yes, we do.

The time that was set is is actually 1.5 hours for case management. But you know, the thing is, in that you practise, the days are so very don't they, and it can be particularly busy.

So there are occasions when that isn't possible, but it's very seldom that vets wouldn't get some time. I would say mostly we would be. Able to get an hour for that case management, and it's every day and it's so important.

We have consulting vets and we have surgical vets. And so if a if a consulting vet finished at 12, 12:30, then they would have until 2:30. To, manage cases and obviously have the all important break.

I think that's such a, that's such a good idea so that they can, they know that they've got that allocated time to be able to speak to clients properly and do some research. I think that's really, but that's been really, really valuable to, to your, to your clinicians and, and to the owners as well. Definitely, I think it's helped the reputation of the hospital.

We for years I've looked at veterinary surgeons and thought they perform consistently at such a high level, and to be going from surgery, consulting, surgery, and at the same time on the go under that pressure working at that level, to be able to think through cases properly and communicate properly. The pressure just builds, doesn't it? So we wanted to put something in there that was like a little valve where you can breathe and you can think.

Yeah, absolutely. That's absolutely wonderful. So there's no more questions have come through.

So, once again, I'd just like to, to, thank MWI Animal Health for sponsoring this wonderful presentation this evening. I'd like to thank Lewis from the webinar vet who's doing all sorts of magic in the background. And again, I'd like to thank Gillian for such a wonderful presentation.

Lots of things to think about when everyone's going back to practise. So I hope everyone has a wonderful evening, and hopefully everyone will make sure you all try and stay safe, and have a good week. You take care.