Hello, it's Anthony Chadwick from the webinarett welcoming you to another episode of Vet Chat, the UK's number one veterinary podcast, and I'm thrilled today to have Emma Short on the line with me from Bailey's Horse Feeds. Emma, tell me a little bit about the company. I know we know Bailey's very well, but there will be people listening to the podcast who perhaps.
Don, tell us a little bit about the history and what you get up to. Yeah, well, it's quite exciting, this year because it's our 40th anniversary from, from when we were founded, which was back in 1982, by George Knowles and Paul Venner. So there are two founders.
We're an Essex based company, so we're based in the north of Essex, roughly about 14 miles east, I think, of Stansted Airport, which can be quite convenient. . Yes, so we've been going for, for quite a long time on the same on the same site now.
So yeah. And you obviously also produce the food there, you have your own mill. We do, yeah, we're quite unique in that fact in that we have our own mill at head office, which is fantastic for us because it means that if we have any issues or we want to go and have a look at the, the feed that we're manufacturing, we can just wander over into the mill, we can chat to all our production managers, .
And staff, etc. Within, you know, and on the premises. And it gives you, I suppose, more flexibility, enables us to supply and keep up with with demand as well, which is ideal.
So you're producing the food, you're obviously then bagging it, and as you said, it gives you the ability to know if you need to up er production, you can, if you need to push it down a bit, you can, or you're short of ingredient. You've got that much more control in the manufacturing process, don't you? We do, we do everything on site.
So we have, so we have our nutritionists, and we have 5 nutritionists, based on site. We have all our production team, we have our marketing teams, our sales teams. So we're all, all in one area.
And absolutely, if there's something that we haven't had delivered or we're having issues with the supply with a particular ingredient, for example, we're all there to come together and to collaborate and resolve the, the situation. So it makes life a lot easier. And also ensures that we can be as consistent as, as we can be and also as, as productive as we can be.
So, as you say, we can increase production if, if needed. We quite often, run our meal at night in, in a very busy times. So we, we're running 24/7, you know, and obviously during quieter times that, that obviously comes back down.
So we're, we're quite lucky. That's brilliant and I would expect that during the pandemic, everybody had much more time for their horses, so, so maybe you were even busier than you expected with the lockdown and so on. We were, our production team were flat out for quite a few weeks and we were running the mill.
Leave 24/7 for several weeks, including weekends. And they were absolutely fantastic through that time, because many of the guys that work out in the mill and our production team didn't have much time off to try and keep up with with supply and demand. And I think that worked in our favour, really, at a time when, you know, people were trying to buy in more feed, because they were worried obviously about whether they would be able to get hold of stuff, etc.
So. Yeah, it was a, it was a very busy time for us and to be honest, it hasn't really petered off at the moment, which is great for us, and hopefully that will, will continue. It's it it reminds me of the the Beatles song, We really at some time, so we were very busy during the pandemic as well.
8 days a week would be useful, wouldn't it? Yeah, absolutely. But Emma, you've obviously, I can't believe it, but you tell me, tell me you've been with the company for 20 years, came from college with a Bachelor of Science in in in equine Science.
Obviously now one of the nutritionists. At the business, tell us a little bit about the equine science degree, because I think at the time it was quite a, a new qualification, I think it's much more common now, isn't it? It, yeah, absolutely, it certainly was, yeah it was very new.
There was only 9 of us, I think, on my, on my course when I was studying, which was quite nice actually. You got to know everybody pretty quickly. Yeah, absolutely.
And I had a real interest in nutrition, and from a clinical side, so concentrated a lot on modules around nutrition, biochemistry, etc. And was very lucky that Bailey's were looking for somebody as I, was coming to the end of, of my final year. Yeah, so I was, I was very lucky to, to get the job.
So yeah, 2002 I started. Straight out of, straight out of, uni, and have been there ever since. I hope, I hope after 20 years you've been given a watch or something.
Not yet, no, but maybe they'll hear this and yeah. I, I think one of the things that impresses me about Bailey's obviously, you know, we've known each other for quite a while with your sponsorship and the webinars that you do with us. It is, is very much how you go in depth, you know, you obviously sell the, the food that you sell, but you go on to, to stud farms, you go on to .
Other, other yards, and you're advising not only on your food, but you're also analysing forage and pasture because it's so important that we have the right mix of foods, isn't it, with, with, with horse food, that the grass and the hay is, is also a very important part of the diet. Complete. I mean, if you, if you think about it, the, the horses, you know, a fibre eater, that's the biggest part of their diet and therefore provides, you know, a lot of the nutrients and energy, etc.
And that has a huge impact on what we are going to recommend. So the forage is really paramount, and we do look into it, you know, in depth, we, where, where it's viable, we look at analysing hay haulage grass, and we have done. For a long time we have a big database where we collect all our data and sort of, you know, look at the trends that we've seen over the years, and that enables us to see what's missing in the diet.
So quality protein, for example, may be short or inconsistent if you, you know, certainly when you're looking at things like grass, it's never a constant, it's sort of up and down. So our job as nutritionists, is to ensure that we try and keep that consistency, and we're counteracting basically any shortfalls that you're gonna have within the forage because we know that for example, through our databases that things like zinc and copper are always low. Even with the horses at rest, so it's trying to make sure that we're providing the right feed advice, the right product advice to ensure that that horse is as healthy, from a weight perspective, but also from a condition point of view as well.
And a lot of us are all, you know, we're all horse owners or, you know, have an interest and our main key is to make sure that we are educating and providing the right advice for the owner. To ensure that that horse is as healthy as it possibly can be, so that that is what we're all about basically. And it's also, as you say, looking for those mineral shortages because they can have really deleterious effects on horses if they're low on zinc or calcium or magnesium or whatever.
Yeah, certainly. And, and I think people tend to forget about the horse that, you know, they think at rest or those that are in light levels of work, forage alone is enough. And a lot of the time from a calorie or an energy or or protein perspective, yes, they are, but it's those micronutrients that are quite often missing and OK, for a short amount of time with them being deficient, you may not see any, have any issues or you know or see any issues, but long term, as you say, yes, there, there can certainly be sort of, you know, problems that that can occur.
I, I love the ethos of . Of Bailey's because obviously you can see from that that you're already interested in educating. The the stood farmer or or you know, the, the individual horse owner.
But it's how you also work sometimes, I know you go on to yards. You know, with the vet and with the blacksmiths, so you're working collaboratively as a team and I think it's, it's so important sometimes we can all compete against each other or what does the vet know, etc. And there can be fights between the team, whereas I think collaborating together is really powerful, isn't it?
It's, it's really key, a lot of, a lot of horse. Owners, obviously have their vets, you know, going into the yard, and they are looking towards their vets to give them good advice, and rightly so. But absolutely, you're right.
Sometimes there can be a little bit of conflict with what we know and what we don't know. And I think it's, it's really key for us to push that education and ensure that our owners, whether they've got one horse or pony, or whether they've got a yard full or they're competing or breeding. I think it's really important to come together so that you're collaborating together to give the same advice so that if you are advising on weight loss, for example, that you're, you're all saying the same thing, and not having conflicting advice because I think that's where.
The issues then becoming clients get confused and often if they're confused they do nothing because if they're having three different pieces of advice, it, it, you know, it's very difficult, isn't it? It is, yeah, and who, who do you believe? So yeah, so we do a lot with, do a lot of that and actually it it works very well, and the results that we see by working together as a team with the vets and barriers, etc.
Is, is great. You get much better results and actually from a longevity point of view, not only with the animal's health and wellbeing, but with the owner knowing what they have to do and trust, they, you know, they obviously trust you when you're all coming together, which is a real key thing. Well, trust is at the centre of everything, isn't it, because if people don't trust you, they don't buy your product.
Of course not, no, absolutely. So it's, it's crucial. I love that, you know, that you're very much a purpose centred company and I can see that obviously education is the key to what you do, you're obviously doing it, you know, on an individual levels going into yards.
Obviously you've been very supportive of the webinar vet with educating horse vets about nutrition as well, but. I know you've been involved in Better Beginnings and also lecturing at Hartbury, which is obviously one of the agricultural colleges. Tell us a little bit about those two things.
Yeah, I mean, Better Beginnings is something that I'm very passionate about because I do, you know, I and the company do quite a lot from a stud point of view, so we work with the British breeding pituitary as well. So we have an involvement with that, which we have done for the last 20 years. And the Beginnings, run by the British Horse Foundation, is looking at sort of improving management and welfare, for the young horse, basically from conception up until 2 years.
So that's what we're, we're looking at at the moment. And just making sure that we can put the right processes in to ensure correct management from the beginning. And obviously that builds longevity and obviously better health and wellbeing obviously for the, the foal, the brood mare, etc.
As well. So, so yeah, so that's that's a a great thing that that we're doing at the moment and, and very much involved in. And also with Hartbury College, you're actually giving lectures I couldn't remember what you said.
Thank you. Thanks for the reminder. Yeah, Hartbuy, we've been working with Hartbury for a little while now, and yeah, that involves sort of doing lectures with the students, advising students, so those that have their animals on site as well, so we will pop in and look at forage analysis, make sure that they're on the correct diet for what they're doing.
But also we are, involved in some of their nutrition-related research projects as well. So we're working with, some undergrad students. We've also got some MSC students this year as well that we're working with, with certain studies.
So that's all very exciting as well. So it, it's not, yeah, not only just educating the students, but also they actually help to educate us by doing research as well that we're interested in, so it kind of works both ways. Collaboration again, that's our podcast, you know, interestingly.
Despite all this great nutrition, you know, across the board, horses, dogs, cats, humans, we have a bit of an obesity crisis, don't we? Obesity is a, is an issue, you know, across all species. And do you think it's a, you know, cos obviously I'm not an expert on horses, but do you think it's, it's a big problem in horses or do horses manage their, their weight better than a, you know, maybe a dog or a human would do?
Yeah, that's a that's a tough one to answer. I do think it's a problem, yeah. And I think, I don't think it's been a recent thing.
I think it's been a problem for probably quite some time. I think it's maybe more so recently that we've, as a, as an industry, I think, sort of maybe recognised it and maybe have actually started to come together to try and resolve the problems that, that we're facing. I think the biggest issue is that people get used to seeing their animals looking in a certain way.
And they don't, they're not necessarily doing it to be unkind. But they just maybe can't, it's difficult, isn't it, when you're seeing your horse every day, it's very difficult to be objective about it. So forages, grazing patterns have changed even in the 20 years that that I've been in, you know, working in the industry.
And so I think it's really important that, again, we, we all come together as a collaborative approach to try and resolve the problem. So I do think it's an issue. I think it's something that we do certainly need to, to be involved in, and we do a lot.
I mean, we have, we have an equine weight loss, programme or booklet that we, that we send out. We, we can give to vets. We have booklets and things that we can send out to, to sort of owners.
We've sat on things like the equine obesity sort of roundtable and, and sort of, so we, we are quite involved in that area. . So I do think it's something that we need to continue, to look at and try to continue to educate our owners properly, but it's not the only thing that we see.
I mean, obesity is a is a big issue, absolutely, but it's not the only thing, you know, there, there are, you know, horses do still need to put weight on in some instances, etc. Etc. So it's, you know, it, it, it's sort of looking at the, the bigger picture, I suppose, isn't it?
And I, I know, . You know, part of that is obviously horses are pretty big, so it's difficult to weigh them, but I know you, you very much are a believer in weight scales and condition scoring and, and, you know, it's having people educated to recognise actually, because I see it all the time with Labradors. People come in and when you see a Labrador that's in its correct condition.
Oh, that dog's very thin. No, actually, your dog is very fat. Absolutely, yeah, they, they haven't got the perception.
Yeah, we, we have a number of way bridges that we use, but it's really key I think that weight is, is is a useful tool to to have. But what it doesn't tell you, it doesn't tell you the amount of fat that horse is carrying or muscle. It can be useful, but actually you can weigh that, you know, the same horse over, say, sort of over the course of say 6 months or a year.
They may be the same weight, but actually it's really key that we're looking at. Body condition score as well. It is, yeah, and actually I'd probably say the body condition score is more important actually than the weight.
The weight almost is a figure. So you could have a horse that's 500 kg is actually obese because it's carrying too much fat and it's got a, you know, condition score of say 8. Whereas that same horse could possibly have the same weight at 500 kg, but actually have a good condition score of 5, but it's got more muscle and obviously the, the right fat content.
So, yeah, weight bridges are fantastic and they're useful, but body condition score actually I think is, is more useful to actually determine what, what the horse is actually like. Well I remember Jonny Wilkinson, the famous rugby player, when they were looking at his BMI, they were saying he's obese, which is the excuse I use if people try and tell me I'm carrying a bit of weight. It's no it's, I'm just like Johnny Jonny Wilkins.
I like it. I, I have to just as a little caveat, I tend not to say to, to clients, no, your dog is just very fast. I don't usually say that.
So that was just said for effect, just in case you people listening are worried, I I'm not quite so abrupt as that, . Fantastic, all the work that you're doing, obviously to help the animals, those of you who listen to the podcast will know I, I'm a little bit obsessed with the environment because if we screw the environment up then we probably won't be able to keep the animals. So I, I, I'm always sort of testing people out, and I must admit, I think just looking at some of the stuff that you are doing, I think it's definitely an A.
I'm not gonna give an A star, but some fantastic stuff with the solar panels for your factory, which of course. It, it, it is a great thing to do, but it's almost becoming a very sensible economic thing now with the with the energy crisis, isn't it, as well, Emma? Yeah, absolutely.
I mean we've had solar panels for quite a long time now actually, but we have recently installed new new solar panels and I mean you can imagine that, you know, when we're during our very busy times, we're manufacturing a lot and obviously yeah our energy bills are gonna be incredibly high. So yeah, so it's a, a win-win, I suppose, you know, from a sustainability point of view but also from an economical point of view as well. And I know, obviously there's a lot of packaging goes on and we worry about plastic packaging and things.
A lot of your packaging is actually in paper, isn't it, as well? Absolutely, a majority of it is we use paper, sacks, which is recyclable, so that's very important for us, and it's all UK based as well, so we try and use as much as we can in the, in the UK or as locally as we possibly can to avoid sort of air miles and all that kind of thing. We do still have some products unfortunately in packaging and, and we are really working hard to try and, you know.
Remove that as much as possible. We've just introduced our paper refill bags for our tasty treats which can then be used or, you know, put into the the the buckets, which are quite often also repurposed as sort of feed buckets and that kind of thing. But yeah, we're, we've always been a a paper bag company as such, but we're trying to do better and, and, and moving away from, from the plastic as much as possible.
Well, I, you know, I must admit I was at Beaver Congress recently in Liverpool where, where we're based, and when you go to a small animal conference, and, and obviously the giveaways trying to be more and more careful with the stuff that you give away, it stands with a lot of plastic in small animal conferences and in. Non-vet conferences that I've been to, what I was most, what was probably most ubiquitous at the equine conference was, was plastic buckets, because you need them for the water and you need them for the feed as well, don't you? So they're always a, they're always a useful giveaway, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I Where do you see the company developing maybe in the next few years, how do you see it developing, you know, across, across areas? I think, I think really our main focus, I would say at the moment, is from an educational point of view. You know, I think we're really trying to push education as much as we can, .
So that people understand why we're recommending what we're recommending, why we manufacture what we manufacture, . And I think that's a, a big thing for us is that we want to make sure that not only the end, you know, just the one horse owner, but also those that have big yards, etc. Performance horses breeding, that they, they understand, what, you know, what nutrition is and, and, and how it can improve their health and wellbeing of their overall animals.
I think and sustainability, I think is going to be a big thing, obviously with the economic climate as it is as well. You know, there may be a shift possibly with more branded products, maybe onto those that may be, you know, slightly more economical. But again, it's trying to ensure that we're providing that education for people to make an informed choice on, on what they're doing, and it's the right choice for the, the health and well-being really of their animals.
Well, I don't think Emma, there's any doubt that, you know, as a purpose centred company, you're, you're probably already scoring pretty highly on both of those. Your, your educational material is fantastic, the way you're supporting people like Hartbury and, and the British Horse Association. Thank you, plus all the work.
That you're doing on sustainability. Thank you so much for all that you do for the animals, but also for the planet as well. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thanks everyone for listening. This has been Anthony Chadwick from the webinar vet, and this has been another episode of Vet Chat.
Bye bye.
