The aim of my presentation today is to, really try and give, practitioners a structure, or to think about a structure, to how you might deal with, a situation when an animal arrives at your clinic or your hospital, and it doesn't seem to have an owner. Just a caveat to sort of put in there is, I'm, I'm not a lawyer, or an academic, but, I spent 20 years more or less in, in mostly private practise more recently in charity. And I've certainly seen some very weird and wonderful situations, that have really challenged me, and I suspect you've all sort of dealt with stress of when you have these situations.

And we know that, you know, veterinary work can be stressful. And if we can create structures and, you know, make it easier for us when these, when these things arise. So Oh, my presentation just decided to.

There we go. So, why do we see animals without an owner? I think it's probably fairly obvious, but I think it's worth reminding us because, you know, it's not always obvious.

Animals may have got lost. Obviously, that's something we're going to see more with, with cats. You know, who, who are outdoors, they can be abandoned.

Injured and unable to get home, and then there's the sort of feral and wild animals. I think that, you know, the previous presenters made very good points about in the shelter environment how important it is to have as much history as possible. And I think that's something to consider when you are presented with these animals in practise, that is there any history you can get?

Obviously, in a lot of situations, there isn't, but if someone has brought in an injured cat, you know, rather than just letting them pop the basket down with a scribbled name, is to actually, you know, has this cat been in your area for a while? Is it a community cat? You know, any information that you get is actually going to help you.

And then if this animal does end up going into a shelter, it's going to be really helpful for them as well. Obviously, there can be a great variety of species. Cats, I'd say, would be most commonly seen, you know, as the injured, the road traffic collisions.

We'll talk a little bit about cat ownership, which can be complicated. I've said something here which, you know, may be a little controversial with some people that wildlife, by definition doesn't have an owner. And you know, we'll talk a little bit about wildlife though because it it does present and it does present some, some challenges.

So what does the law say? Because I think as vets, it's really important that we're not acting unlawfully in things that we do. And dogs is probably the most straightforward, and the stray dogs are the responsibility of the local authority, which can be really great, you know, stray dog comes in, .

And you know, idea is phone up the dog warden, dog warden comes and gets the dog, you know, they should be providing veterinary care as well, although obviously, if it does require emergency treatment, you should be doing that. Now, it's not always as straightforward as that, as we know. There can be issues out of hours, and they should provide out of hours care, but there can still be issues.

And we know obviously that, you know, a lot of local authorities are really challenged with funding at the moment, and this may not always be a priority area. You might say, understandably, although this is something they're supposed to do. But there can be some slightly funny situations that can arise.

I certainly remember one from when I was in practise in London. I shan't mention the borough, but where the dog had been found on one side of the road, which was one borough, and our practise was literally the other side of the road, which was another borough. And, you know, we sort of got into this well.

That's not my borough, but it's not in my borough, and a little bit of backwards and forwards. So, I think it's if you can get to know your dog warden. You know, find out who your local dog warden is.

If you've got a good one, they can be really useful. It's a really good relationship to have. Sometimes it's outsourced, but I think just knowing who, what that contact is, having it in a book, having it ready there can be really helpful.

Now, abandonment is an offence, and it is a little bit of a grey area about where sort of abandoned dogs sit. But certainly, you know, if you think an offence has been committed or an animal turns up with suspicious lesions, a suspicion of cruel treatment, then, you know, contacting the RSPCA is certainly advisable, but in terms of actually who's responsible for strays, that would be the, the local authority, but the RSPCA can help look in to that. Now cats is really completely different.

They are no no special laws around, you know, cats sort of. Ownership, responsibility for stray cats. They are essentially treated as the owner's property.

Now I know there are, you know, some campaigns going on to, you know, look at that and say whether, whether that should change. But as it stands, you know, the local authority have no responsibility for cats. So, you know, they, they can sort of fall through, with no one holding that responsibility.

Now, finders and feeders can be quite a challenge, and I think that's something sort of for people within practise to just be a little bit mindful and actually aware of the law that is there under the Animal Welfare Act, that I think we've all been in practise and, and had, you know, very well-meaning people often coming in and saying, here's a stray, I've been feeding for 5 years. Now it's got ill, you know, who's gonna help? And I think that really, you know, if people have been feeding animals for, for cats for a long time, certainly if they've been living in their home, you know, they are their cats and they have a duty of care.

And, you know, I think certainly us as the RSPCA we will push back on that and, you know, actually, no, the RSPCA is, is not going to take that cat to treat it and then sort of give it back to you, without sort of taking that responsibility in some cases. Obviously, you know, if it's a, a feral cat and they're literally sort of keeping it alive with some food, that might be slightly different, but You know, this leaflet that I've attached here is a leaflet that the RSPCA has produced, just to try and get people who, you know, who are feeding stray cats, who've got stray cats in their neighbourhood, to just have a little think about that and just have, have that awareness now. We're not saying we're going to be saying, oh, you know, I know you've broken the Animal Welfare Act, that's not it at all.

It's about really trying to be Positively, just saying, you know, can you take on responsibility for this animal, you know, you've been feeding it for, for this time, and just getting people to take, take the responsibility. So, obviously, there's a lot of other species, rabbits, we do very commonly get in unfortunately left in, in boxes or just abandoned in parks. You know, again, the, the laws are very much the same as with cats there.

I've put exotics, . I think, you know, you need to be a little bit careful. And it's, it's well worth sort of, you know, maybe having a policy or the dreaded risk assessment in place, you know, just in case you do get some of these things in.

Probably again in the RSPCA we, we get a little bit more of the, of the weird and wonderful, but, you know, certainly people bringing in and saying, oh, do you know what you, what do you think this is? And it's some scorpion. Snakes, you know, there are people who are owning stuff that they shouldn't own.

And, you know, some of those things can be dangerous. So if you have got a sort of local sort of reptile specialist or, you know, some sort of contact like that can be really helpful. The picture on the bottom left, one of my vets contacted me on a Friday evening.

Oh, someone has just handed this in at reception and run off. What should we do? That's an African wildcat.

It shouldn't be kept here, without sort of You know, legal legal basis for having it, without having it licenced, almost certainly illegally kept, and that was something that obviously we needed to deal with quite urgently. And it can be quite difficult actually to find sort of appropriate support. I mean, in London, we're certainly quite fortunate.

City of London Authority and the Heathrow Animal Reception centre, are really excellent at providing support, DA, you know, it, it is variable. But, yeah, this, this cat was actually taken to the Heathrow centre, where obviously they are quite used to dealing, with all sorts of strange imports and, you know, strange animals that shouldn't be brought in. But, you know, they do have responsibility for, for that, and they do have a number online.

And I certainly think that they're very, very useful point of contact. The wildlife, . I'm going to cover this because obviously it's something that is, you know, brought in quite frequently by members of the public who find injured wildlife.

And I think it is good to have a think about what your practise policy is. The RSPCA's policy is that we do believe that wildlife should Live in the wild. And our aim is always going to be, when we look at wildlife, it's gonna be, is that animal going to be able to be sorted enough that it's going to go back out into the wild.

Now, that may be your practise policy, or you may decide that it's different, but I think it's really helpful if you can have something in place. And really try and identify if you've got local wildlife rehabilitators who are of the same mindset. And I think it's important, if you are using local wildlife rehabilitators, to just be aware of the setup they've got.

I think this was mentioned in the last talks, you know, around sort of shelters. And I think that it is the same, you know, if you are sending an animal on, you really need to know where that animal's going. And that it's not, you know, going to be kept in a very small cage and have a wing removed and, you know, or.

Is it gonna get appropriate pain relief? All of these things. So, again, you know, there's lots and I don't want to disparage because there's lots of really, really good wildlife rehabilitators, and we absolutely couldn't do what we do without them.

You know, so many fantastic people, but just, you know, if you are sending animals on to rehabilitators, I think, you know, make sure you've got that relationship with them, help them, support them. It's brilliant. Unfortunately, well, unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, there are laws around invasive species, which means that there are some species that should not be released without a licence, because they're considered to, to be invasive and pests and, you know, shouldn't, shouldn't be here and shouldn't be released.

It's probably a wider subject for another day, but you may have seen in the press that while there were licences for certain, rehabilitators and charities, including ourselves to release grey squirrels in certain places and in certain numbers, there's not going to be any new licences. So, actually, you know, we shouldn't be treating and releasing grey squirrels, ringing parachets, cane, munja deer. Now, certainly, we are not very happy about that, you know, the situation with, with grey squirrels.

I think the very, you know, the relatively small numbers that we're talking about, you know, rehabilitating and releasing. I just don't think it's going to make a difference to the wider population. And it's obviously, you know, very distressing for someone, you know, a member of the public brings in an injured grey squirrel, and, you know, you could fix it.

And the government's really telling you you're not allowed. So again, I think that's something, you know, you need to be aware of that in your practise. You need to be mindful of, you know, what you're going to tell clients, and how you're going to deal with that because it obviously is a tricky situation.

I think, you know, wildlife, it's, it's, you know, such a broad range of species that can be brought in. You know, you can't expect a vet practise to be able to deal with all of it. But I think it's worth, you know, looking into what the current situation is with the, with the most common species, you see, Getting a little bit of CPD if you can, .

And, you know, being realistic about what you can do, we all want to help wildlife, but you're not necessarily going to have the skills. And certainly, you know, it can be easy. You, you want to save something.

It's a very busy day. It's put in a cage. You're not quite sure of the dose of the pain relief and, oh, can I give it this?

Can I give it that? And you can end up with an animal, you know, sat in a cage without appropriate pain relief, that you wouldn't probably do for a dog or cat. So, again, have protocols and, you know, if it needs a PTS decision, then it's always better to do that sooner rather than later.

Just a slight aside, I wanted to mention here, which you may have seen a recent communication about, the risk of hedgehog amputations, again, you know, is people really trying to do their best for wildlife, but perhaps, you know, extrapolating. And certainly the experience of a number of well known wildlife habilitators, and I think the experience of some of our wildlife vets as well, you know, it really shows that hedgehogs do not do well with amputation because they cannot then groom of parasites, so they end up with a very, very heavy parasite burden. So that's really advised to something not to do.

So, I'm not going to go into great detail. I'm not gonna read all this out, but I think that it is always useful to remember, you know, People, you know, worry about the RCVS and, you know, they're gonna get a complaint or they're gonna get struck off. And, you know, I'd actually say, you have to do, pretty awful things to, to be struck off.

But obviously, we do want to stay on the right side of our CVS. But what's really handy is that there is the guide to professional conduct. And it is quite useful.

And, you know, they do know the sort of challenges and situations that we face. And, you know, if you come across a situation that's a bit tricky, having a look at the guide or giving them a call can be very helpful, . Because of the way it's set up, you're not always going to be able to get an abs, you know, a definitive answer.

They're not going to say, yes, yes, you're OK to do this. But we'll help sort of set out the framework and the guides and the, you know, the information that's there. So it can be really helpful.

And also, you know, if you are a member of EDS, you know, that's another resource. So, you know, Don't think you're alone in these situations. There is advice out there.

. So, I mean, I've, I've added a little bit of emphasis on here, but one is just the reminder that, you know, the local authorities have the legal duty to, to deal with lost or stray dogs. So, you know, you're not gonna get in trouble for, for doing that. It's important that you do.

And secondly, is that sort of in, in other situations, stray cats, rabbits, that sort of thing. You know, you're encouraged to take reasonable steps to reunite the animal with the owner. But the RCVS is, is certainly not expecting, you know, or requiring you to do any of these things.

It's, it's giving an encouragement, but, you know, It really is down to you to have a think about, you know, is it like to be an owner and what can we do? So Social media is obviously can be very useful. I'd say in my experiences, there's pros and cons with that.

I mean, we've had a lot of success, With animals that, you know, the story and everything, we, we, we thought there was an owner there. It is handy if there's a little bit of an unusual characteristic or perhaps something that you don't necessarily tell people about. It is really difficult and actually quite sad when you get a sort of stray black cat, and you will probably get quite a deluge of a lot of hopeful people who've lost their black cat.

And, you know, possibly from quite a long way away, and it's just kind of hope against hope that that's the cat. And I think you need to be very sensitive to that. You know, it, it can be quite stressful for, for your team, for your reception team who are fielding these calls.

So I think be mindful of that. I'd also be mindful if the animal really isn't in a very good state, and, you know, Perhaps it looks as though it might end up being PTS. I mean, I'm not saying don't advertise it, but I'm just saying beware that you may get false claims, you know, people who think, oh, that's like to be put to sleep, and I want to save it.

And, this sort of comes into the proving, proving ownership is, is very useful to have a policy on that, because, you know, there are some, some people who, you know, they might. Work for a small rescue or, or possibly even be hoarders or just be, you know, people who really want to save cats and again, not disparaging anyone, but, you know, we have had those sort of situations. There's a number of lost and found sites, all the RSPCA, all the animals that come into the RSPCA get put up and put up on pets located.

So, you know, be, be aware of those, and if you are putting stuff on there, just make sure that you're checking messages, . Yeah, cause it's nothing worse if someone sort of contacted you days before, and it, and it's their animal. And just having a good lost and found sort of record on the computer or book or something like that and your practise is, is really useful.

Microchips is always an interesting one. If the animal is microchipped. Obviously, best case scenario, which is something that we all want, is that the animal's chip, the details are up to date, and it goes home and everyone's happy.

We know that microchipping is now compulsory in dogs, but not yet in cats. I mean, You know, in terms of, I know there's a lot of pressure, you know, and campaigning towards getting more microchips and cats, which I think is great, but I think that we perhaps need a little bit of refinement, . And extra education.

There was certainly a period, in one of our hospitals at one point where I think we'd had sort of 14 microchipped injured strays and none of them had up to-date details on their chips. It's really frustrating because someone's gone through all that trouble. So we have a policy on that.

There's nothing sort of, sort of legal there. But, you know, we certainly do try and work pretty hard, sending recorded letters, which we give a minimum of 16 days just in case someone's gone away on sort of 2 weeks holiday, you know, or if they're nearby, even, you know, health and safety considerations, but pop by, drop something through the door, I mean, we actually did through some detective work with a chip. Actually traced one owner who'd moved back to Pakistan and asked if we would send his cat back to him, but after a little bit of a conversation, he was happy for us to rehome the cat, so that worked out well.

But I think in practise it's something to be really mindful of that you implant the chip and you know, clients they think that's job done. They don't necessarily realise how chips work and really recommend the reception policy that if someone changes their details on your PMS, so they change their, address, or they change their phone number, that your reception team or your nursing team, whoever's doing that is speaking to them and making sure that they know that they need to update their chip, because, you know, out of date chips are really, a big ban. For, well, for, for all of us and for the owners especially who think they've done the right thing.

So back to the old RCVS, So, you know, veterinary practises are not expected to keep lost Australian indefinitely. So you may have been an event attempt, you've had a look around and, you know. You've, you've documented that, but you know, Your businesses and you can't be expected to keep strays in indefinitely.

. And, you know, There are cases where euthanasia is reasonable, and we'll come on to talk about that a little bit more. But, you know, it is, it is perfectly fine to do that, especially if you think that this is not an animal that's going to be rehomable, which again we'll come on to talk about. So, You're not gonna get in trouble with the Royal College.

Obviously, the big concern for everyone is that you do that and then an owner comes forward. And that is really tricky, and upsetting, and it does happen. .

Many owners, you know, if you, if you've documented it, if you've got your sort of welfare considerations actually, you know, are reasonable. But obviously, it can lead to unpleasantness and, you know, everyone's worry is about sort of, there'll be a social media storm, But, you know, just communication is really important. I'd always say if something like that happens, you know, get the owners in as soon as possible, you know, try and have a face to face, you know.

Be very sympathetic. But, you know, unfortunately, sometimes it will cause, you know, it can cause an upset, which is difficult for everyone. But, you know, I think you've just got to, you know, if that was the right thing for that pet at that time, if, if it really was the likelihood that it was going to just sit in a cage for, for the rest of its life, it wasn't gonna be homeable.

You know, it is the most appropriate, appropriate thing. It's difficult to say. And, you know, even though things coming out on social media, negativity on social media isn't very nice, I think it happens in lots of walks of life now, unfortunately, that, you know, if you keep your head down, It is for a relatively short period of time and you've just got to move on and try and really trumpet with, with lots of real kind of positive stories about the good things that you're doing, but it can be difficult.

But I think it's really very exceptional that that, you know, that would happen. So the advice generally is 7 days is a reasonable length of time. Now, obviously, in your particular small clinic, that may not be possible, and, you know, you may want to move, you know, if you've got a relationship with a shelter, a good shelter, .

Onto the shelter will be much better for you. So this isn't saying that you need to keep it in your clinic for 7 days. But that's a sensible length of time to, you know, see if you can have an owner come forward, and it tends to be what the charities will work on.

Obviously good records, that's always gonna be a good thing, because sort of never write too many records. But here's a kind of important one is obviously, you know, where, where it can be a real struggle is where the animals presented and they're ill or injured, . And, you know, the RCVS are quite clear here that, you know, you need to consider your obligation under chapter 3, which I'll come on to about providing emergency first aid.

And I'm also going to talk about RSPCA IET scheme. But you know Guided by welfare considerations, I, I think is a, is a really important one. And so chapter 3.

Says that all veterinary surgeons in practise must provide emergency first aid and pain relief, according to their skills. And the purpose of first aid and pain relief is to attend to the initial and essential welfare needs. And again, you know, it makes the point that euthanasia may be appropriate.

You know, if you were presented with a fairly inextremist stray animal, you know, And you don't think that you're going to, you know, be able to relieve that pain and suffering, you know, even with an owner not there. Always good to get a second opinion if you can. But, you know, euthanasia can be an appropriate response, you know, to just documenting very carefully, taking photos, getting a second opinion.

But, you know, not keeping things alive. And this, you know, an owner is literally sort of rushing on their way down and you can keep that animal comfortable. And, yeah, immediate first aid and pain relief should not be delayed while financial arrangements are agreed.

And I think that, you know, the vast, vast majority of vets, are really on board with that. None of us, obviously, you know, it's a business, we want to work for free. But at the same time, we do have that privilege as vets to, you know, make diagnosis to provide treatments.

And really, sort of a little bit of a flip side of that is, you know, that there are some other responsibilities on us. And, you know, We do, unfortunately, I mean, it is, you know, an absolute minority, but we do get cases where, you know, animals have been sent away, from vets who, you know, well, You're not, you know, A member of the public's found an injured animal. They're not the owner.

And they're sort of, well, if, if you're not going to pay, we won't do anything, or the money the RSPCA provides is not enough. We're not going to do something. And, you know, those vets are saving a bit close to the wind, in terms of our CVS, but also, you know, just in terms of the ethics as well.

As I say, it is a real minority, but You know, just to be aware of what's, what's in the code there. Consent is a very, obviously tricky one, when you don't have an owner, but we all know that the RCVS is very hot on consent at the moment. You know, the importance of consent, it's one of the biggest sort of categories of, of complaints that are coming, coming up to them around consent.

So, but when there is an owner, there isn't really anyone that you can get consent from. So the key is to keep very good notes. Consult a colleague.

It's always a good one. They don't necessarily have to be in the same building, you know. Just over the phone, you know, especially with modern technology now, sending, you know, showing videos, photos, etc.

Just to get that little bit of backup is sensible. I understand that some of the larger out of hours, you know, you have that facility of having different people sort of almost like on call in other sites who can, who can help you. Always double check for a chip.

I mean, we, we just triple check. So inspector checks for chip, we check for chip before we do anything, we check for a chip. And if there ever is sadly euthanasia, then we will double, double check for chip.

So, keep checking for your chip and make sure that you have that very thorough sort of technique for checking. Keep animal welfare at the forefront and, you know, don't expect to get paid. Unfortunately, even if an owner does come forward, after you've given the treatment because they weren't able to consent to it, you can't ask them for the money.

You can certainly Give them the invoice of what you've done, explaining how much it cost, and hope that they might sort of make payment towards that, but, unfortunately, you can't sort of say we've spent this, you must pay it. And again, you know, there is advice out there, obviously not so much out of hours, . There's some recent RCVS case studies, that people have seen that they are quite useful, .

It's a general case studies around consent because of these problems and it's worth having a look at all of them. I hope they're quite sort of useful, but there's a couple, . That were particularly sort of salient for this presentation.

And, one of those is, horse caught on a fence where the sort of vet became aware of that and didn't know who the owner was and they couldn't be contacted. And, you know, the learning point there, as you know, Unfortunately they had to provide, they, they provided some emergency treatment, and unfortunately, you know, when the owner did come forward, they didn't pay them and that was very frustrating and annoying, but what they'd done was appropriate. Another case study was around a community cat, which Was the cat that had been living in an area, you know, people feeding.

Again, not really saying it was their cat, but, a charity who'd agreed to pay for, I think it was an abscess or something. And when it went in for the abscess treatment, it was neutered at the same time. And the finder had got sort of upset about that.

But, you know, so a couple of points. So, I think. One is, you know, Who is the owner and.

Sort of touched on this, but it's, it's important to be clear, you know, who is the owner, who's giving consent, who's paying. In this case, it's really the charity. And Yeah, while you might be concerned.

Within the 7 days and you certainly shouldn't rush into anything like neutering, in case the owner comes forward and is very upset. At the same time, You know, If you've got a good history of this having been a long-term stray, you know, that is unneutered, that is presented by a charity that's, you know, I mean, this is, this is a case is absolutely, absolutely lovely boy with his massive big cheeks. But various scars and scrap marks and, you know, known to be around the neighbourhood, lots of people feeding.

And, you know, we wanted to get that cat basically back out. As quickly as possible. We were not going to do an anaesthetic, lance the abscess, sit in the kennels for 6 days, neuter before going.

So it's just important to consider that history and again, you know, document your decision making process and think about what's in the best interests of the animal. So, what about charities when these animals come in? I think it is good to say that there, there isn't any charity that has a statutory responsibility for stray animals.

So the local authority for dogs, but there isn't anyone who has any statutory responsibilities for other strays. So there isn't anyone obliged to pay, which is annoying when you're a business and you're busy and the stray comes in and you're having to contribute. But You know, that, that is the reality.

The RSPCA does offer a contribution called IET in some circumstances. So IET stands for initial emergency treatment, and I'm going to cover that in a little bit more detail because I think it's often not very well understood. And obviously, there are a lot of other charities out there who may be able to assist.

So get to know your local charities, . You know, especially cat charities who, you know, may be very willing to help with treatment, take, take the cat in when, when you've provided that treatment. And again, just having those relationships can be really useful.

But again, just to reiterate, you know, pain relief, emergency treatment should not be withheld because no one is willing to pay. What is IET? It's, basically this small amount of money that the RSPCA will contribute when an animal is brought into a practise, when the RSPCA has been made aware of it.

So someone has called our 24/7 national call centre. So they'll call up the practise, and because they found a sick and injured animal. And, In that situation, we have a, a, a memorandum of understanding with BVA that, you know, we will help vets in those situations by providing this small payment.

There's no government funding that goes into it. It, it comes from our charitable funds. There's no statutory obligation, but it's something that we have, the RSPCA has done over some years, and it is to just assist with that immediate assessment, life saving, you know, pain relieving, of sycoin and, mostly companion animals.

So why do we offer that? We don't, we have 300 officers, the RSPCA, which is probably about the same number of police that you'd have in a small town. And, you know, they're covering the country, they're covering 24/7.

So, you know, and also sort of, you know, our inspectorate are very much focused on the cruelly treated animals and investigating. That side of things. So, you know, we do, we can't pick up every sick and injured animal.

There's, there's no way. But if members of the public call us, then obviously we want to help and we feel that this is the quickest and kindest way of ensuring the animal gets the treatment it needs and it's our sort of con you know, just to sort of help out with that. Our national control centre is based up in Don Doncaster, and a login system works on postcodes, so you'll find the nearest practise, check the practise is open according to the details they've got and give that contact number to the member of the public.

So, you know, you may get, well, you probably will get calls from members of the public saying the RSPCA directed us here. It's certainly not that you're on any special list or it is just that you are the nearest practised where this animal is going to get, you know, appropriate pain relief, . And We do try and tell people to, to call first, you know, we know what it's like when a stray animal arrives in the busy, middle of a busy evening surgery.

It's, it's not what you want, but, you know, these are generally emergency situations. So, outside of working hours, the vetline team at the NCC should contact you first, because we know that that can be more tricky, obviously less practises, more likelihood that you're dealing, dealing with an incident. And on rare occasions, we might need a vet to attend the scene.

That would probably be more likely for the kind of large animal situation. Or, you know, where something is in, you know, trapped or something, you know, require sedation, something like that, but that would be very rare. There's more, and then obviously there's more funds available for that.

If an RSPCA officer brings a stray animal to you, then they will also give you that number in order to claim IET. I'm not gonna go into too much detail. So IAT is a contribution of 50 pounds plus VAT.

Out of hours it's 120 pounds plus VAT and, an additional 100 pounds if you are asked to attend the scene of an incident. So those are the figures that have been agreed with, with BVA, you know, it is only supposed to be a contribution, . You know, it's, it's some assistance towards, you know, hopefully should cover, you know, drugs and those kind of things for that initial emergency treatment.

But yeah, you know, that's sort of, we need more, the RSPCA needs to pay us more. You know, unfortunately, we're not there to sort of cover the whole amount. It is there as a, as an assistant manager.

I'm not gonna go into great detail. You'll have access to the, to the presentations. I think in the past, it has been not as easy as it should be to claim IT.

And we've certainly been looking at our processes, to make it much clearer for people. We've got a new vet liaison manager. So if there are people who've had problems, feel they've got bad debt and unhappy, then, you know, get in touch, through the vet line and, vet liaison, ask for the vet to get in touch with the vet liaison manager, because, yeah, the systems have I've been a little bit clunky, and that's obviously something that we want to improve and make sure we've got a really good relationship with the, with the vet profession, with the vet teams.

There are exceptions, you know, we don't have a, a sort of bottomless, bottomless pit of funds, and we do have to be quite strict. You know, it is only cases that we've been made aware of, . And there is an agreement with the BVA that we, there's no payment for small wildlife.

So, less than 1, less than 1 kilogramme, there is an understanding that veterinary practises will provide, free, free of charge, emergency treatment for those. And we've already talked a little bit about what that. Might entail stray dogs.

Again, that's responsibility for local authority, animals being shared for by other charities and sort of, you know, non, non-urgent treatment. I mean, I know fleas, worms, you know, they, they can be dangerous, life-threatening, certainly irritating, but we wouldn't say that that was part of IUT. And In terms of ongoing treatment, rehoming, because we pay IT, it doesn't make us responsible for the ongoing care.

And I think sometimes that can be a little bit of a confusion. The people then, oh, the RSPCA haven't collected this. You know, we really there to try and get this animal that kind of emergency treatment.

There's a flow chart. I would say that we're in the process of just trialling and setting up a new vet website. So this information will hopefully become much more available to people, because again, I don't think it's always been very clear and, you know, put out some articles, when that, when that comes online so that these resources are more available to the profession.

So I hope that that will be really useful for people. So what about when animals need further treatment? At that point, where you've given the initial emergency treatment and you feel that further treatment is needed, which I, you know, accept is going to be quite a lot of the time, then, you know, that's the point for sort of approaching other charities to see, you know, who can help.

And certainly, In a lot of areas, the local RSPCA branch, is someone that you can try contacting. Each branch is separately registered charity that sort of licences and uses the RSPCA name, meeting certain criteria. They're separate from the national RSPCA and they're self-funding.

So many brilliant, brilliant people, brilliant volunteers, you know, working really hard, running these branches. But because of that set up, there's quite a lot of variation. So there are some RSPCA branches that have their own hospitals, clinics, and then there are some which are very small and might just be giving sort of small pots of money.

So, I appreciate that can be a bit frustrating. You know, if you've been used to one sort of branch where, you know, you've always got contact, you've got a manager, they've got paid staff to then a volunteer who's perhaps not so easy to get hold of. But, you know, that, that is the setup as it is.

And, you know, there's a lot of volunteers doing a lot of, a lot of great work. So just Sort of, but, you know, that's a good point of contact, but certainly, you know, other cat charities, cats protection, you know, smaller charities, you. Get to know who you've got in your local area, build a relationship with your branch, your RSPC branch, you know, that's always, I think, going to be really, really positive.

So again, you know, the branches are going to do their best. You know, that's what they're there for, to help animals in these situations. But, you know, the finances can be, can be tough.

So keep that, get that dialogue going. But unfortunately, if there isn't anyone available to, to assist, then, you know, that responsibility does sit with the vet practise to have a think about what you want to do for, additional treatment or, you know, euthanasia certainly, if the animals in a, in a bad way and, you know, sadly requires a lot of very expensive treatment that there's no funds for, or it's not going to get to a point where it's very homeable. So, what treatment should I give?

Obviously, I can't talk to every sort of condition that we see, cause it's, it's very, very variable. You know, there's no set definition of emergency treatment, but it something probably that, again, it's good to talk about in your practise, you know, maybe in a, get, have a practise meeting to, to talk about these things. You know, appropriate pain relief, obviously, and some sort of stabilisation as the minimum while you try and see if you, if there is likely to be an owner out there.

Other treatment obviously is going to depend on the presentation and also your practise set up and the funds available and that's fine. And, you know, we have to accept that, you know, we don't. Not everyone has, you know, the level of funds, the level of equipment.

But I think what's really crucial, unfortunately, my colleagues in the previous presentations have already covered this, is thinking about what is going to be the outcome for this animal. You know, if we, if there's not an owner coming forward or if you think an owner is unlikely, that animal is going to have to get to a point of being rehomable. With a good quality of life, because otherwise, you know, you're not doing any favours at all.

. If you think that, that it's not likely to be rehomable or it's very unlikely, you know, you should think very carefully, and it's good if you have got good relationships with your local charities to, to, you know, to have those, to have those conversations now. You know, local charities can vary a lot and you're gonna need to, it's always useful to have those relationships in advance, . But, you know, it's.

It's a difficult, you know, it is difficult to, when you think about rehomeability. But, you know, when you've been doing it for a while, you, you will start to have a better understanding. And you need to just have that slight more of a sort of shelter focus.

Again, it, it's been discussed by, by my colleagues earlier, but, you know, only run tests that will change the outcome for the animal. You know, charitable funds to confirm a diagnosis to, you know, make you feel better that you know what it is when actually, you know, it's, it's really skinny, it's PPD, it's vomiting, and it's got some thickened intestine. You know, that, that just doesn't feel right.

I wouldn't be spending, you know, funds to diagnose that lymphoma. You know, And kidney disease in all likelihood. So think very carefully.

It can be a bit scary if you're used to working in a type of clinic that is gold standard, where you really like to know, but it's just a slightly different way of going about things, thinking of your different tools and thinking, you know, is this animal going to be rehomable and yet don't be afraid to euthanize, I would always think, what are the advice that I'd given the animal presented with an owner? Because actually, if I was standing with the owner really saying, or even, you know, we're not supposed to do this, but I still do. If it was my cat, you know, if, if it was PTS in those situations, then you should absolutely be doing that with this unowned animal.

Some slight sort of funny things, you know, cats amputated cats with amputated legs, cats that have lost an eye, actually very rehomable, so, . You know, it may be better if you haven't really got the space and the money and you're desperately trying to sort of save a leg with a complicated fracture or save an eye. You know, actually, is that in the best interest of the cat?

Or is it better to do that one procedure, you know, squeeze it on your list, relatively quick procedure, and then that cat is ready to be rehomed. You know, there's a lot of things to weigh up. So I think it's really helpful.

This is just to finish off, if you can create some practise guidelines, because there are all sorts of situations that can arise, you're not going to obviously be able to cover them off. But I think as a team, you know, if you can have some sort of policy, so that when animals do present, That the team's really on board with what it is that you're going to do. You know, rehabilitation of stray animals can boost team morale.

You know, we all know the members of the team who've got, you know, slightly broken animals that have been fixed back together. And you can use social media to help promote. Practise positively.

But at the same time, you know, a practise full of stray animals when you need to make money is equally not going to work. So, you know, it is something to discuss. I think it's always better to to have those open discussions with the team members.

Get it out in the open, and I think it's really helpful to keep some sort of stray folder, be that, you know, on your computer system or just in a, in a, in a binder, with all this information to hand. So, you know, that when the, when the situations arise, you're prepared. And, you know, finally, just to say thanks to all the vets out there who do do this work, you know, as the RSPCA we can't, and all the other charities, you know, we simply can't deal with all the situations that arise, and we know that there's loads and loads of vets out there who are just doing fantastic work, you know, straying unknowned animals, and, you know, that's, that's really great.

So thanks everyone, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you so much, Caroline. That was a really great, really informative presentation.

I've got, a couple of questions in from Lucy. If you get a dog who has a microchip, but the first contact on the database is uncontactable. Firstly, are they classed as a stray?

And secondly, are they the responsibility of the local authority? Yeah, so we would, if we couldn't initially contact the owner, then we would then send that animal to the local authority. There's a couple of reasons for that.

Firstly, actually, because of the law, when people look online about what to do if I've lost my dog, the first thing that should come up is actually contact your local authority. So if you haven't informed the local authority, and actually sent the dog there, you may be stopping that owner, finding that dog, because the local authority will say, no, it hasn't been found, it hasn't been handed in. And they may not necessarily bring around all the practises.

So, yeah, it's, it's a stray. It's been found wandering, which shouldn't have happened. And then, you know, the local authority, they will continue to investigate the microchips.

They will have, they should have suitable kennels, whereas your hospital probably is quite a small hospital kennel. They will continue to investigate that microchip. And they also have the powers to charge people to, You know, pick up that dog.

When they come and pick up that dog, they'll charge them, you know, they'll talk to them and, you know, encourage them not to let it happen again. And it's just all within that legal framework. So yeah, that's the best way to do it.

Thank you, Caroline, for clearing that up. Just another comment in here, just, just saying an excellent presentation and thank you very much. So thank you.

And just to remind everyone that obviously all the webinars are being recorded, and will be available after. So if you did want to look back at anything that Caroline has mentioned, and really just again to thank you, Caroline, so much, just to let everyone know that. The next webinar is going live on this stream one will be the neurology series and that will be it at 9 o'clock.

And I hope you've all enjoyed your evening and thank you, Caroline. No, thank you. Have a good.