Hello, it's Anthony Chadwick from the webinar Vett welcoming you to another episode of Vet Chat, the UK's number one veterinary podcast. And I'm very honoured to have on the line, Ben Sweeney, who is the founder of Viivvet, but perhaps even more importantly, the founder of Vet Chat, cos of course while you were working, Together with us that you actually started the podcast, we chatted about it and you were the guy who got it moving all those years ago. Yeah, it's quite weird being on the other side of the microphone, but it's, yeah, it's well it's nice to see it still going so strong and obviously gaining such a following and reputation, which is nice and to be perfectly honest, it's quite nice seeing like some really cool things that people are discussing over it, so, shock horror, I listen to it on a regular basis.
Oh no, well, great to see you, Ben, and obviously, I'm not sure when this will go out, but we're sitting here on a Wednesday morning, late January, trying to get ourselves organised to get down to Smith's conference later on in the day. Yeah, yeah, it's, there's nothing quite like a 60 mile an hour windy day to be driving down the M6. But it's always, I find Spis is a really good, like, sort of, kickstart to the UK.
Obviously some people will have already been across at VMX in the States, but like for the UK scene, like Spivs is always my like early year tonic, almost like, you know, you, you get that touch point with your existing clients. Also, like, you know, all of these new exciting businesses that are popping up and new partners, you know, whether that's an established business, and of course this year there's so many new independents that are setting up and establishing, and SIs is of course, you know, really supported them traditionally and, you know, hopefully moving forwards in future as well. Be an exciting few days, I think, and I, I'll be looking forward to a lie down on Saturday afternoon.
And obviously, used to be down at Celtic Manor, which I always used to enjoy the drive, but Birmingham is that little bit closer for us in in Liverpool, isn't it? Yeah, that's it, it's it's, yeah, there was nothing quite like the epic trip to Celtic Manor, but it was quite nice when you pulled under the pillows and somebody said, can I take your bags for you? But, I think, you know, as, as with many things in the modern era, like, you know, they, they move forward, they evolve, and you know, there's a new manifestation, obviously last year was the the first year, of the new venue and, and I have to say I was really impressed with the events, like, you know, lots of good quality talks, lots of good quality speakers and.
Let's be honest, there was a fairly good social crack as well. So it's, yeah, it's always good for them to have a part of that for, for the, the end of January to kickstart the year. And of course a lot of change going on in the veterinary profession, er, I was at VMX and a lot of stands talking about AI technology, digitalization.
Vidiett obviously at the forefront of that with er the telemedicine offering that you are you know, that you brought forward. So tell us a little bit about Vidiett and how that's going. Yeah, I mean, kind of Viyvet was essentially born out of a frustration, as many things are, not just with our profession, but globally, and I still remember very, very vividly a client coming into me who had a nine year old German Shepherd, and the dog had been losing weight for a period of time.
She'd gone on Facebook, she'd spoken to the breeder, you know, she'd spoken to everybody except the flipping vet, and they, you know, I'll give him a high protein food, give him this. OK, in you have a feel of the, the abdomen, and you go, yeah, there's a nice big mass there. You know, and, and 3 months has, has passed in that period of time, and of course, you know, a, a, a, a tumour has progressed, and, and sadly in that case, you know, whilst there was short term recovery post operation, you know, the dog died shortly afterwards and like for me that, that was just kind of.
A primary example of how people were going elsewhere for information rather than coming to the vet, like, you know, you cast your mind back to the 90s, the vet was the source of information, you know, that was it, and that was, that was it. Now now people are looking at the convenience elements and interestingly, like we interviewed so many people as part of the, the sort of discovery process. What fascinated me the most was how many people were actually, they were palpably aware that they didn't want to.
Bother the vet, they didn't think it was important enough to take up the vet, and they, they actually, much as though I think we sometimes don't think this, they were aware of the plight of veterinary surgeons and didn't want to add to that burden. So we ended up interviewing a load of them. We said, well, look, you know, why do you do these behaviours, and it's the convenience, it's that sort of, you know, yeah, I do this because of that.
But we launched this, of course, in the aftermath of that first wave of telehealth platforms and, and always our concern and, and my personal concern with this was, look, A lot of these services are disintermediating the practises and cutting them out of the loop, and you know, as, as is quite rightly every practise is concerned, challenging revenues and advice and, you know, sort of that. So for me that there was a way that we had to use telehealth as a part of that practise journey to keep the practise at the epicentre, but to deliver kind of Google-esque, Availability of veterinary expertise for the, the client, because understandably, you know, they phone a practise, they speak to reception and reception say the vets will phone you back. We all know what it's like in clinic.
So, you know, 12 hours later when you've not stopped all day and you get a chance to phone them back, they're a little miffed, and that's not your fault. So we're like, well, OK, how can we use this army of vets globally, you know, we've got so many UK MRCVS vets. That have decided to move, you know, as I look out the window now for some unknown reason to warmer climates, and, and go, well, I've got this wealth of expertise and knowledge, and, and they have this drive to want to use it to help their colleagues on the front line.
So it's like, how can we harness that in a platform that keeps the, keeps the practise central, but delivers exceptional customer experience, so it's kind of, yeah, no, no pressure. You can deliver that in a short time frame as possible, great and. You know, we were, we were very lucky to get our first break, with a practise called Beaver Vets over Grantham Ma, of the Grantham Way, so Kate Bennett there came to us and was like, really like the idea of what you're doing, I'd like to use it in my practise, and that was very much our pilot, very quickly followed with the likes of Powys vets, animal doctors in South Wales, and, and village vets in Thornby.
And, and they kind of gave us our chance to prove our, our worth to clinics, and you need that, you need those earlier doctors to say. Look, we've got a problem. We, you know, we are closed out of hours, you know, there's, there's more than half of our week where we don't have the capability to speak to our clients.
What can we do together? And that was really our first break, and it's kind of snowballed. And I think you were saying, you know, you want Google-esque, availability, but of course we want.
Better quality than Google, because as you said, you know, Doctor Google is, you know, it's definitely a a source of information for people and sometimes it's just wrong, isn't it? Yeah, and that's it, and kind of the way, the way we phrase it is we put personalised informed veterinary expertise at the same level of convenience as a Google search. So when somebody, you know, when your clients as a practise send us a question, they can send us photos, video, text.
And every, every combination of the lot to do with any case at any time of day, and they receive a personalised video response from a, a, a, a vet with a minimum of 5 years' experience in an average of less than 5 minutes. And that, you know, we aren't here to sell people stuff, we aren't here to say to people, look, you know, we want you to use this and that, that is the job of the veterinary surgeon in clinic and that that was what was the biggest issues with other services was. You know, upselling and selling other things like we want our vets to purely triage advice and inform, and be that top of funnel for your clinic.
So when cases come in, you know that you're seeing cases that truly need to be there, but actually they might turn up with a faecal sample or a urine sample. Now, we've all been in that consult where we send someone home to get something and you never get the sample back, or they turn up and they want bloods, they want imaging because actually that, that seed has been planted. You know, what we don't do is turn around and say, right, oh yeah, we think he needs a T4 TSH, we go, your vet might want to discuss some bloods with you.
All about that what we've called the pre-vet journey, you know, that thing that we all wish clients knew before they came into our consult room, so they're calmer, they're more focused, they understand a bit more of the process, so it improves our. Efficiency in the consult. But also, frankly, we're not seeing cases that aren't revenue generating or that, you know, take up time and bandwidth that mean our vets aren't getting a break.
You know, we know that out of hours over 90% of the questions that we get asked out of hours don't need to go into the emergency vets, and that, that works for. Because it means you've not got an overworked emergency team that are dealing with 10 cases that actually could wait till tomorrow for a jab of Metaan. Other NSAIDs are available and indeed monoclonals nowadays.
But like, you know, there, there's, there's that availability, but actually enhancing the customer experience where they go, Oh great, OK, I've got peace of mind. I know I don't need to go to the emergency vets. I can look into my normal vet tomorrow and see the vet that I know.
And my dog goes into an environment when they're less stressed, and I'm not panicking trying to find the place in the middle of the night that's an hour away. So really we feel it caters to everybody. It keeps the practise at the centre, it delivers an exceptional customer experience without putting the client, putting the in-house team under additional pressure.
And it, you know, it, it serves the out of hours teams as well because it means they can focus on the cases that truly need their care. But again, I'm a little bit biassed. But I was gonna say, Ben, you know, when I kind of started that whole digitalization journey in 2010 and I, I spoke to vet similarly and said, you know, what's your biggest frustration, it was.
One of them, you know, top 3 would have definitely been, it's really difficult to get your education, you know, we have to go off and travel, either at the end of an evening surgery or for a few days. It's incredibly expensive. A lot of the traditional companies were charging a lot for training.
You know, when I, when I started Webinar that I reckoned it cost me £5000 to do my training, you know, move forward 15 years and you can pretty much, if you want to get all your training online for free. Obviously quality wise, you know, you want to make sure you're going and looking at the top quality stuff, but moving forward 10 years, almost to the beginning or just before the pandemic, when I was ringing vets up, they were saying. You know, what's your biggest problem?
They weren't saying there's not enough online education because of course by that stage people had come into the market. And actually what they were saying was, I have a 5 vet practise and I only have 3 vets in it. Yeah.
And one of the answers is obviously, well, let's find you two vets, but actually the other answer is, well, let's. You know, actually uplift the veterinary technician or the veterinary nurse, you can tell I've just been to America, can't you? You know, so uplift the, the, the technician and the nurse, but also what can we do digitally.
So, you know, over that time we've had tools like Pets App come out, I recall, to be able to use those to free up time because these things are automated. But similarly, as you've said, if you've got somebody in the background tri triaging for you and telling you. Actually, you don't need to come into the practise or you absolutely do need.
You should end up with, with more time, and so maybe the more tricky answer to the question is, well, how can you actually run a 5 vet practise with 3 vets and run it really efficiently and, you know, with greater productivity and probably greater profit. And this is where I think services like yours really, you know, fit into that equation. Well, I think, you know, the buzzword in practise or the buzz terminology in practise at the moment is operational efficiency and quite rightly so, you know, as a, as a profession, we have traditionally had an awful lot of waste, and I think, you know, we, we look at stuff and go, well, I don't have time to do this, and, and invariably we do have time to do things, we just don't do everything efficiently enough to go.
Need to do this, this and this better, or, you know, more efficiently. And I think, you know, when you look at, you know, the business case for these things, obviously we charge based on the size of the practise, the number of client base, and so on and so forth, whereas actually employing somebody is quite a significant expense, especially with enough expertise. To, you know, deliver on as a, as an educated veterinary nurse, as a veterinary surgeon, you know, they're they're quite a high expense, even an additional receptionist nowadays, you know, you're looking at potentially an expense of a couple of grand a month, and I think it's looking at kind of going, not just having more bodies, but using the bodies we have better.
And looking after them more by by a system, you know, you've alluded to, you know, the likes of Pet App, I recall, Digital practise, another great one, you think actually, you know, when you can WhatsApp somebody their bill, save your receptionist spending 10 minutes on the phone, a great opportunity to, and you know, let's face it, as a client, I'm much more inclined to click on a link and just go, right, yeah, I'll pay that now, job done, you know, there's it's a really interesting thing and it's where this asynchronous communication has really come to the fore. In a sad way. For many things we're becoming a disjointed society, and that boils down to the convenience, but equally by doing the things that are convenient and necessary in a much more operationally efficient manner, allows us to do the things that truly require, That face to face personal touch points and and you know intimacy.
Better and more efficiently and deliver that exception, so by having all of these tools that cater to the clinic, and to the client base and to the team, it means that those critical points, you know, that euthanasia that takes half an hour rather than 20 minutes, doesn't derail your entire day, and I think that's where, You know, there is, there is huge opportunity for our profession, to do the stuff that really requires us to be personal and intimate really well, and that is what sets us apart. You know, you look at all of these digital businesses. Digital can only ever, in my mind augment physical veterinary services.
You cannot replace that feeling and you know, again, any of us as clinicians have been in that room where the hairs on the back of your neck stand up for good and bad reasons. And I think for me, like being an additional arm that allows people to, to get that great thing out of being a vet and being a vet nurse and being part of a veterinary team is just so. Well, frankly, it's humbling, because you sit there thinking, you know, you, you're a, you're an element of something that enables people to do what we do best, brilliantly, and that's the bit that the client remembers.
I remember, you know, I was talking about certainly 5 to 10 years ago, about every business needs to be a digital business, be it a butcher, baker, candlestick maker, or a veterinary surgery. And in fact, I remember Brendan Burchard, who's a a famous internet marketer, talking about use digital tools. You know, the more digital tools you can use, the better, because a lot of these tasks that digital tools are doing are frankly boring.
Hm. And what we're very good at, and I know you were mentioning it in the VVJ recently, is. I, I, and I think, you know, whether AI comes in and all the digital tools that come in, as far as I'm aware, no computer can empathise, and actually we need those skills, we need to have the time, as you've said, to be able to do those skills and.
I think the other side was all of that kind of me talking about being a digital business in a sense, kind of I wasn't that persuasive, but I tell you what, the little tiny coronavirus was very persuasive and I think that has helped, you know, you and your business because. 5 years ago, or 4 years ago when the pandemic started and people were saying to me, you know, have you heard of Zoom? And I said, well, we've been using it for about 6 years.
Now everybody knows what Zoom is, now everybody's very happy to do, you know, a Zoom call, either as a, a client or business to business. So that digital transformation has happened as a kind of silver lining of the COVID pandemic, hasn't it? Yeah, and, and I think, you know, for us, COVID was really a, you know, when we started speaking to practises, you know, they were like, well, you know, we're doing this in-house ourselves and we really hate it.
So actually COVID was initially a bit of a barrier because practises had gone, well look, video stuff, all of this stuff is, you know, it doesn't work in practise, and I vehemently agree because actually when you're trying to do that alongside doing all of your clinical stuff, it's incredibly, you know, we touched on it earlier, inefficient. But actually, when you've got somebody, you know, a team of trusted colleagues that have your back delivering that outside of it, that can really help drive business profitability, client experience, and, and team wellbeing, you know, we, we all know how team. Really suffered through COVID and actually really is still, you know, there's a lag post COVID still, and I think, you know, as you say, all of these tools that can pull things together that just help little elements, no digital tool is ever going to be the fix.
Like the fix is the veterinary practise, and it's kind of like, you know, it's kind of what what bits the constituent parts, isn't it? Yeah, you know, like the, the practise is the epicentric part that is very much the beating heart of of what clients know. But what tools can we use to keep that practise at the epicentre, like, you know, how can I send my reminders, how can I do this, how can I do that?
You know, do my clients even know about this? You know, you, you and I are in Liverpool, there was a case yesterday, of two dogs that had eaten something and, and died very suddenly, and of course you see it on the news, but actually for clients to have the ability to communicate immediately to their client base. In that area, guys, just so you know, this has been made aware to us.
This is the symptoms that you're looking out for, these are what you want to be aware of. Like, it's a huge step forward for us as a profession. If you've got a concern, we're here.
If you can't get through to us on the phone, use Viett. If you can't do that, then, you know, if we haven't, there's tools that you can use, use PetsApp, use digital practise, use our Facebook Messenger, like there's tools that everyone can pull together. And it's some put burden on the in-house team, some sendst people, that's, you know, there's there's a way that all practises can utilise what what we've, you know, you'll be aware that in, in business, we in the tech world, we talk about our tech stack, and we very much talk about our vet stack, like what is my veterinary business is my stack of services and that goes right the way through from, you know, my, my wholesaler.
Through to my PMS right through to what peripheral services am I using, you know, to, to keep me in the loop so that I can support my clients as best as I can. And clients talk more now than they ever have. I mean, we've got, I, I, I'm a part of a few different groups purely out of curiosity to see how people communicate, and the practises do stuff well.
They're revered, you know, like as soon as somebody asks something, I go to this practise, why? Because they do this, this, this, this and this for us. And those are the practises that will really thrive and succeed in the future.
Well, you have to be a digital business, I think is, you know, if you're not a digital business, maybe you haven't survived COVID, but you're not gonna keep up if you're not taking these things on. Just moving a little bit. Cos we're talking a lot about, you know, where the practise is really needed cos there's an emergency or, or, you know, you're triaging the stuff that, you know, isn't that, well, isn't that urgent anyway.
Obviously, looking at digitalization, and I think we mentioned it around sending out, reminders and things, that whole area of the pet health plan, I think, is, is also going to be affected by, by this as well, because with my sustainability hat on and, and also with my hand up saying I am sorry. You know, as a dermatologist, I was very keen on making sure everybody had flea treatment, and we know now that some of these products are ending up in rivers causing issues around sustainability. I actually, .
Did the first, as far as we were the first pet health plan in the UK in 1999. That Julian Wells's practise was kind of first, but I got mine, I sold my first policy, he was before me when I moved quickly and sold one and. You know, one of our favourite lecturers, Mike Willard, with that beautiful text and drawl that he has, he used to say, you know, all of everything I taught you 10 years ago was a lie, I just didn't realise.
So again, that sort of pet health plan almost needs to develop with things like Vivet maybe as a service, but also. More diagnostics around, well, don't treat the fleas unless they're there, unless you've got a really allergic dog or cats. And similarly, you know, maybe you don't need a worm, let's do a faecal egg count before we push on and and give you some you know, worming tablets and the like.
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the, the pet health plan realistically hasn't evolved for 20 years and, and look, that's until now it really hasn't been a problem. It's been sort of something that's there for practises, but I think, you know, we're starting to see the evolution of even, you know, health plan only practises unless you are a member of our plan, then you're not, you know, there's other vets available sort of mentality you look. Garden vets, you look at I've got to give a shout out to village vets.
You beat me to it. So a shout out. You look at village vets, you look at Walton Vets, we'll put the scousers up there, and you know there's, there's, you know, what is it, pickles in London, and you know there's, there's evidence now.
There was one that tried it a while ago that didn't succeed, . And I think, you know, when you're doing a policy only practise you've got to really look at your, your local demographic, you know, is it the right place to have this practise? Personally, I think, you know, there's a lot of practises that are doing the right thing at the minute because I think if you're opening a practise, it's easy to start as health plan only, but if you've got an existing client base, it's very difficult to then turn around and go, right guys, we're now a health plan only practise.
So people are easing people across that, but traditionally, of course, health plans were, Kind of product based and discount based, but the last I checked really neutering unless you've done something monumentally wrong is a once in a lifetime discount, you know, dentals are something that are used sporadically, and so there were kind of things that were there, but we didn't necessarily want people to use, but it was like, you know, if you're on this, you're saving this in theory. And of course you, you talk about the flea and wormers, I think they will remain a mainstay for the while, but it's good to see how the products are evolving are evolving. And again, you look at that from a sustain sustainability point of view, it's great to see that they are.
Considering how we provision these, for practises, as you rightly point out, you know, one great example of AI is, you know, the likes of the Zoettis imagist I know IEX have got some cool stuff in terms of their diagnostic in-house AI tools, and of course what that means for us as clinicians, client turns up to a, you know, a 6 month health check, brings a faecal sample, we can run something through I think by the time that consult is finished. We've got a result. Yeah.
That, that efficiency, rather than sending something away to the lab and waiting two days for a result and then having to get the client back, you know, you've got great services like our vet shop that have home delivery, you know, you've got all of these buying groups that have got home delivery as part of their health plans, you know, Merlin Vettel, Caveris that everyone's doing it, and that's great because it's reducing the carbon footprint of our veterinary experience while still keeping the practise at the epicentre. You'll notice a recurring theme. But for me, it's like how can we evolve our practises from just being product-based to being product and service based, so you're starting to see practises including all of their consultations.
One really interesting use case we've found is that because people are using all inclusive consultations, understandably, the team's concern is, well, everyone's just going to come in all of the time, and actually it'll be non-revenue generating consultations. So quite a few practises have been using Viivt as that pre-consult screen. Does this need to come in?
Is this, is this a warranted? Physical consult, so that when I come in, I know that my consultation is going to be revenue generating, you know, will the client with a faecal sample, will they turn up with a urine sample? Things that I can do there and then and give them an instant report, you know, I've got a dog that's slightly off at 7 years old, and, and digitally their advice, yeah, do you know what, bring in a urine sample with you, we can do a dipstick while you're here, and then we can decide on the basis of that what we need to do further.
Clients, it's really interesting if you charge them for a consult. And they leave and there's, you know, your pet's fine. There's almost a begrudging of paying for something.
Whereas actually if you go, well, I'll tell you what, your consult's free, but you're paying the same as you would have paid for a consult for a dipstick. There's this, the vet did this, and that's given me peace of mind because I've literally seen that something is OK with my pet. It's, it's a fascinating psychology, and for me, the health plan is growing in importance because especially in those traditionally quiet months for the practise.
Where we've got that revenue guaranteed coming in, and you're seeing practises that have kind of, you know, our UK average is around 25, 30% at the minute. Practises have really got this thing at the moment if we want to drive up to 50% of our client base, know some practises, village vets as an example, are pretty much 100% health plan practises, and that works, you know, it works as a model. But I think, you know, practise have to decide their own philosophy on what they're wanting to do, but as we say, That evolution of the plan to involve more and more service is, is very much on the rise.
I mean we've got over 100 clinics using Viett as part of their health plans now, because it's a value add. They can now turn around and say, well, look, you know, we, we're adding in a service that's worth over £100 a year into our plan, therefore, your plan savings aren't 200 pounds. They're 300 pounds a year.
You know, you saw, vets for pets, they've included, their 24/7. Phone line service as part of their health plan, and again it's all just little touches that is, if you're going to bring about a price increase in your plan, your churn rate is gonna be lower when you're not just taking the price up or taking the price up at the introduction of a new product, you know, you're gonna reduce that opportunity for churn from your plan because the stuff that they get here. That they don't get elsewhere and it again it's all provided by their practise so the clients are grateful to, as you said, it's bringing the practise very much into the centre where obviously a lot of people, you know, we, we sometimes worry that we're not liked by clients, but consistently trust wise, you know, the trust categories, pharmacists, opticians, vets are right there at the top, politicians somewhat lower.
Yeah, to say, to say the least. Practises are loved. And like, you know, the, the amount of, you know, reviews that we see through practises, you know, again, Vet Help Direct, prime example, you know, this positivity around practises.
Yeah. I think we very much focus on the doom and gloom as a profession. I'm not, you know, times are dark across the globe, not just in the veterinary world, but actually, you know, we are.
Are for 99%. Yeah, you know, there's the, there's the one client every now and then that you just think you've ruined my year, you, you alone have ruined my year, but 99% of our clients love us, adore us, and value us, and that is the critical word, like they value us, they value our expertise, they value our time, they value our insight. You know, yeah, of course they begrudge.
A bill, but who doesn't, like, you know, I had to have my wife's car repaired, and I love, I love my mechanic, he's done wonders with our car, it's 14 years old now, but equally, like you do look at it and think, well, I'm still begrudged to hand you 500 quid. You know, that, that's the nature of commercial society. But of course if you can roll as many of those costs into a monthly provision, then it makes that individual hit every now and then.
Much more sort of nullified in well digital stuff is one of the biggest reasons that people have stayed stuck to their insurance companies, you know, because, oh well I value this service from my insurance company, . There's no reason that vet practises can't do the same to add to that stickiness of the clinic, and it is all about how can I make my clinic ultra sticky to every single client that I have. And as I said earlier, not, no one tool will do that.
You as a clinic and your, you know, your global provision for your clients, that's what does that. Be I thought we would chat for a while and not have a problem with the conversation. I'm conscious we're 30 minutes in, we could talk at least for another half an hour, which will mean that it will, it will probably be close to midnight when we get to spin.
So I am gonna let you go, but thank you so much. I think it's really interesting how the markets and and how the veterinary profession is evolving, becoming more digital, becoming, should we say, a little less conservative in the way it looks at things as well. So it's been great having you on as the founder of Vetchat as well, as, as well as Viett.
No, thank you very much for having me, as I say, it's exciting. I'm sure we can continue our chat at Spivs at the bar. Exactly, good man, great to see you, Ben, and who knows, we might even talk about football as well.
Yeah, not as an Everton fan. Good to speak to you, Ben. Thanks everyone for listening.
Hopefully see you on a podcast or a webinar very soon. This has been vet chat from the webinar vets. Take care, bye bye.
Bye.
