Hello, it's Anthony Chadwick from the webinarest welcoming you to another episode of the UK UK's top veterinary podcast, vet chat. Very fortunate today to have Ray Walters, who's a director of the Rabbit Welfare Association fund. And Jane Tyson, who's a scientific officer at the RSPCA, particularly wanting to talk about rabbits today, it's one of our, favourite topics.

We, we've covered a lot of rabbits, medicine and welfare, in association with Burges on the webinar. Our vets. And obviously also they were mentioned in the poor report.

Obviously our, our, our third most popular pet, Jane, but perhaps the way that we look after them as members of the public, leaves a little bit to be desired. Yeah, sadly, we know from things like the poor report that many rabbits do experience poor welfare for a whole variety of reasons such as living in inappropriate housing, living on their own, which obviously for a social species is very poor for their welfare. Also we know that many rabbits aren't fed the correct diet, we also know that many owners don't take their rabbits to the vets like they really should be doing, uptake on vaccination and nutrient are both quite low, really.

And probably, there probably about a million rabbits in the UK, although I guess it's a really hard number to actually get exact on, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, definitely depends on what figures that you look at, things like the Pa report, the PFMA do their annual reporting as well. So we think anywhere between say 900,000 and 1.1.1 million rabbits.

So still a large number of pet rabbits in the UK. And I suppose, as you've said, inadequate housing, but also, you know, as a social creature living on its own. I, I know sometimes people do also put rabbits and guinea pigs together, is that something that you think is a good idea?

So it was once really common, just thinking back to even when I was a child, it was really, really common to see people with a rabbit and a guinea pig, but now, with things like neutering becoming more mainstream, and the fact that these are two very different species, each with very different needs, although both comp companionable species. But need company of their own kind, so guinea pigs live with guinea pigs and rabbits with rabbits, it's much better for for each species for their welfare. I, I remember when I qualified as a vet and obviously was starting to have to neuter rabbits just because we were using anaesthetics like halothane.

Unfortunately, rabbit death was quite, well, more common than we would have wanted it to be. But with newer anaesthetics like isoflurane, it's, it's less of a risk having your rabbit spayed or castrated, which of course makes it easier for them to live together cause if you have two, a male and a feet. Female rabbits, obviously you very quickly have more than 2 rabbits.

And of course 2 rabbits, 2 male rabbits together can fight, so I suppose this has made it a bit more difficult, but as you say, they're a sociable animal, they need to be kept in, in bigger numbers than 1, don't they? Yeah, absolutely. And one of the, the things that, that we see, all too common, and I suspect, WAF is the same, is that people, when they get rabbits as youngsters, they don't know the correct sex of them.

So they might believe they've got two girls or two boys, naturally they've got one of each, and then very quickly, like you say, they, they do breed and it's quite easy for numbers to spiral out of control, which is, sadly something that we do see. I, as I said, I am a vet, but, you know, I, I, I don't practise anymore, but I've been quite busy over the lockdown actually doing video consults and telephone consults for people who can't get hold of their vets. My, my biggest, claim to fame is actually setting rabbits over a mobile phone.

Now that was a real challenge, but I think I got it more or less right because they, they were starting to have some problems and. We, we managed to try and sex them over the the telephone, which was, which was good fun. Obviously, the poor report came out as part of that, we've really got some new guidelines to share, which I think will be useful for vets to be aware of, but also useful for members of the public.

Ray, maybe you can tell us a little bit about the background for the guidelines and a little bit about what, what they're talking about. Hi, yes, absolutely. The guidelines they've actually been in progress for quite a long time.

It's taken years actually to get to this point. We're really pleased that these, these, these, good practise codes which are which are guidelines on how people can look after their pet rabbits, . So basically they cover the five welfare needs.

We've got official codes of practise for dogs and cats, for example, other animals too, already in England, but not for rabbits until June last year when these were launched, and they're called good practise codes rather than codes of practise. There there is a sort of difference there which which Jane will explain later and later on. But basically it's to cover the five welfare needs.

So the 5 welfare needs, as I'm sure everybody listening already is aware of, need for a suitable environment, suitable diet, to be able to exhibit normal behaviour patterns, to be housed with or apart from other animals and. And to be protected from pain, suffering injury and disease. And it's basically a step by step guide of of good practise.

So where the science, we've used the science and where there isn't science, we've used advice and information that we've all been using on for years and years that we can all agree on. So, but most of it is based on science and and the research that is out there. So we're really excited June last year, these were launched, and the all party parliamentary group for Animal welfare.

They were a massive part in this, to get this launched, to get everyone to agree, to agree them and to get them out there. As you can imagine, getting everyone to agree was the biggest hurdle, really, because we're, we're all coming at it, although we all want the welfare of rabbits, to be paramount. We're all coming at it from slightly different angles from, so there was obviously ourselves, RSPCA, there were other welfare organisations.

But there were also the, you know, the industry, that the pet retail industry, the breeders, and the food manufacturers. So we all had a slightly different take on this, but nevertheless, they, they're agreed and they're out there, the good practise code for the welfare of rabbits. It's on our website, rabbitwelfare.co.uk on the RSPCA's website on all party parliamentary group for animal welfare.

It's on their website too. And it's on the rabbit Awareness Action Group website, which hopefully the links will all be in the in the information, so people can go there, download the code. So there's a lovely document which explains in great detail each of the five welfare needs and how owners can meet each need.

And then there's a really brilliant infographic. As well, which is just a wheel with in 5 parts, which has got information on each one. I don't know whether it's worth going through them all, really.

I think people can look at them all on the website and download them, print them off, put them up in the practises, or use the digital copies and send them out, send them out, put them on the social media. But they're out there, they, they're available. Is there any information available on how many rabbits are are being kept inside now rather than outdoor rabbits, cos the, the danger certainly when I was in practise was an outdoor rabbit was at the bottom of the garden.

Wasn't getting checked every day as thoroughly as it should and suddenly we have problems like fly strike coming in, obviously now that rabbits are being kept indoors, you know, it's, it is at least easier to keep an eye on them, isn't it, in the. It is easier to keep an eye on them if if they're under your nose, they're part of the family, and you haven't got to go outside in the dark, in the cold, and start cleaning them out and interacting with them. It's definitely easier to interact with them in the house.

I wouldn't want people to have the impression that outdoor rabbits have always got worse welfare because sometimes indoor rabbits are kept in those big giant hamster cages is the best way I can describe them. So they've got no hiding place and the, the, those plastic cages are smaller than the majority of the outdoor housing that's available. So there's still considerations to keeping them indoors, you know, in terms of providing them the right environment.

And we're hoping that there will be information available on, on the split of indoor outdoor. It's not something that's available at the moment, or it's not something that's published at the moment. But, but we, I do hope that will be available shortly.

My guess is that most are still kept outside. The majority of them are still kept outside, and that's fine. That's absolutely fine if they're kept properly and the owners are, you know, vigilant and paying attention to them.

Yeah, exactly, I think that is the key, it is that sort of often they were seen as pets for children and perhaps didn't need a huge amount of maintenance, whereas in my view, they, they often need more maintenance than a, a dog or a cat, don't they, in, in being cared for and that's causes some of the issues. Absolutely, and because they unlike dogs and cats, who everybody knows this already are predators, rabbits are prey animals, they hide it much better. So things can owners might be slow to realise there's something wrong, purely because the rabbit's been been hiding the fact there's something wrong.

It's, you know, educating owners that if if the rabbit stops eating on the notices a change in the droppings that they need to be contacting the vets straight away. It's, it's interesting also from the report, the number of people who are still feeding inadequate diets, because now there there are some super diets around, obviously, you know, we do a lot of webinars with birds who produce the great pelleted food also, you know, hay and grass. It, it is interesting that people just don't seem to get that right and still feed the.

The muesli diets that we know aren't really very balanced and can cause issues with with teeth and and other areas as well, can't they? Yeah, absolutely. And that's the diet section of the of the the good practise code, the diet section is really clear on that, that here and grass is the absolute fundamental best, you know, most important part of the diet for the rabbit.

At least 80% of 85% of the diet should be hay or grass, small amount of, something, as you say, like the Burgess pellets and a gutted food, and then, the, the safe greens, . Also, people can be a little bit more adventurous. They can grow things in the garden, and they can pick weeds, dandelions, planting, that sort of thing.

So it doesn't have to be expensive to get it right, but it's absolutely crucial that they do get it right because it's not just for the wearing of the teeth, but the correct diet prevents boredom, because if they're eating, spending a lot of their day eating hay or foraging, then it prevents boredom, also keeps their, their guts working properly. So, getting the diet right is absolutely crucial. What are the sort of next steps going forward?

We, we've obviously very happy to put all of the the code links as you suggested onto the, underneath of the podcast so people can see that after they've listened to the podcast. But, but what other things are you sort of suggesting that we, we move forward with, perhaps one for you, Jane? Yeah, so, the Good practise code as Ray said, was released in June last year, so it's been out and about for about 6 months now, and we really wanted to get it embedded within, within the industry first, sort of to get people used to it, used to using it just to test it out.

It's fair to say we've not had any bad feedback about it at all. In fact, it's been really very, very positively received already. It's been used by lots of welfare organisations, veterinary professionals, and industry alike, promoted on things like social media channels and websites like Ray said, you can see it from, the RAF website as well as our RSPCA one.

It's been promoted on things like Blue Cross, PDSA as well. BVA have used it, so the Pet Industry Federation, so it has got lots and lots of publicity already. It's also been picked up by a large amount of small retailers and the insurance companies again on their social media channels, which is fantastic.

So now after 6 months we're getting the feeling that it's time for. The document to have a have a review process put in place, and we really hope that with the help of APO, the all-party parliamentary group for animal welfare, that'll start to happen in the coming months. And then the forward plan after that is to weave it into the selling of pets regulations, which is due to be reviewed later this year.

And then in due course, we, our ambition is really to get in touch with DEFRA, to write to them and ask for them to consider making it a statutory code, as, Ray said, codes of practise. Available already for species like dogs and cats in England, but nothing for rabbits, so we'd really want this to fall into the same category and become a full code of practise. So in the spring, which isn't really that far away now, we will be approaching government, in line with that goal as well, to really just take all these sort of things forward and hopefully, achieve all those aims that we set ourselves.

So what should we be doing as vets around this ray as it as it hopefully becomes statutory as as Jane was suggesting? Yeah, absolutely, we want it to become statutory. So as I said, it was, you know, there was a, there's a slight difference between the codes of practise that exists for dogs and cats and this being a good practise code.

Jane's explained that brilliantly and, and what we want to happen, so we really would like the support of the veterinary profession, or anyone, you know, of everyone really. There's there's a few things that you can do. If you go, if people can register on the rabbit Awareness Action Group website, there's a letter that you can sign online and just to register and show your support and for these codes becoming statutory.

So it'd be great to be able to approach the government when the time comes with the feedback that we've already had that James's mentioned and also show the support from, from, from everyone via the rabbit Awareness Action Group. So that would be the first thing, please. And the second thing is, as Jane said, this, this will be reviewed.

It's been out there for 6 months. It's been out there for people to look at and use, to refer to. So we would like feedback, you know, good or bad, feedback or, you know, all of it is useful.

So to go onto the actual website, the all party group for animal welfare and the website, hopefully will be in the links as well to go onto that website and provide feedback via the feedback form on these codes. And the third thing. Would be to look at the codes, just, you know, it sounds simple, but please look at them, download them, print them off, share them on social media, print them and put them up in the, in the surgery.

You've got clients coming in again in the consulting rooms, just make everyone aware of them. I spoke to somebody earlier on today via our helpline who is absolutely really, really hot on welfare, rabbit welfare. And she didn't know these existed.

So, you know, there is still a little bit of work to do to get, to get them out there to make people aware of them. So please help us with that. And just in general, furtherance of rabbit welfare in general, don't forget to sign up for Rabbit Awareness Week on, on their website, Rabbit Awareness Week website as well, please.

Yeah, no, that's great, great. I think particularly, you know, those of you listening who are vets and nurses, you know, we do have an influential voice when it comes to the government, so people signing the petition does make a difference. So I'd really encourage you to to sign that and, and please do go in and .

Go to the APGAW website contact form where you can leave any, any feedback, obviously this is something that we should be talking about in practise and starting to, demonstrate and publicise in the practise waiting rooms as you suggested, Ray. So, rabbit's very close to our heart at Webinar vet. They are, the third pet, you know, we're learning more and more about them, we've done some fantastic behavioural webinars on webinar vets about rabbits as well and.

You know, thank you so much both of you for the hard work that you and your organisations have put in for this good code of good practise code. I'm gonna get my terminology right. That I'm sure will be a real, improvement on, on what has been there before and hopefully will help people to start looking after the rabbits, you know, in, in the correct way.

And of course, you know, ignorance is, is an excuse, but once there's documents out there, it becomes less and less of an excuse. So thank you so much for bringing those documents forward for us as well, which we will look forward to using and . And taking into our clinical practise as well.

So thanks very much for that. Thank you, bye bye.