Thank you very much for that, and really looking forward to today's session. It's the beginning of our mindfulness-based stress reduction course, and what we try and do is we try and tailor this to meet the needs of people working in the veterinary industry. And so a real big welcome to everyone out there who's chosen to have a look at how we might lead a, a calmer, a happier.
A less stressful, more joyful life because that's my belief of what mindfulness brings to us. And so perhaps the best way to start this session tonight would be to have a look at a couple of definitions that that might help us to understand what what mindfulness is. And there are some lovely definitions out there, from the very simple.
Definition that comes from John Cabot Zin which talks about just being in the moment, paying attention on purpose, and that's the, the, the, the, the real, The thrust of today's session is the importance of no longer living a life where we're always in a sort of automatic pilot state, so we make decisions or we seem to make decisions throughout the day without ever really kind of stopping and thinking about. What's going on and, and, and why I'm making that particular decision, that, that particular moment. In fact, the automatic pilot, some, to some extent means that we, we, we almost feel like we're being bullied sometimes by our thoughts, and that's what we need to be trying to move away from as part of this course.
So, Let's just start by looking at the first definition I'd like to share with you is one that comes from Mark Williams, and this one says that mindfulness is the awareness that arises from paying attention on purpose in the present moment nonjudgmentally and just as they are. I think this is true. The next one's interesting because it talks about what mindfulness isn't really.
There is nothing cold, analytical, or unfeeling about mindfulness. The overall tenor of the practise is gentle, appreciative, and nurturing, and John Cabot Zinn suggests that another way to think of it would be to think of it as heartfulness, and I quite like that because it does kind of get to that place where We, we, we, we're feeling. A real improved sense of the joy that life can bring us as well, and many people get this wrong that mindfulness is just about reducing stress.
It really isn't. It's about increasing our appreciation of everything that life has to give us. So we're going to be together over the course of 8 weeks, and over the course of 8 weeks we have a real opportunity to grasp what can be a real lifesaver, and I mean that in the truest sense of the word.
We had some wonderful, some wonderful stuff and comments and declarations come back to us after the last course, and few people really did talk in terms of how More than a few people actually, how mindfulness turned their lives around and a few people talked about how in their impressions it actually saved lives. And so, I'm not expecting that from everyone, but I am hoping that you will all really engage with the process. Be patient is a is an important bit of warning and an important bit of advice at this stage because it is an eight week course, and the evidence, which I'll talk about a bit later, is very clear that we start to get the real benefits that the Physiological, neurological change starts to occur towards the end of the 1st 8 weeks.
So the moment we start, you benefit from this course because I'm gonna encourage you, veterinarians, people working in the veterinary industry, to stop today and to think about the life you're leading, and about whether you're leading a life that is too automatic, too driven, too. Thoughtless maybe, mindless, and that's where we're starting. So when we think about veterinarians, I, I, I work with lots of different professions.
Offering mindfulness and working, work in schools, work with GPs, have worked with dentists, and when we start to look at you guys, you, you are incredibly fortunate, I think, because the veterinary industry and the Royal College of Vets and particularly Min Mind Matters have, have actually looked and they've started to look and recognise the importance of The mental health and the well-being of yourselves as a workforce and because of that we do have the MetLife helpline information. And I think it's important that we give this to you at this stage because there is a Situation that very rarely occurs that when we stop being on our automatic pilots and because of the mindfulness process, we actually start to feel confident enough to stop. To create some calm.
And then to really look at our lives. And the problem is that sometimes when we do stop, create some calm and look at our lives, we don't like what we find, and it frightens us. And if you do find that occurring, then my first advice to you is just stay with the course because you're going to learn so many.
Invaluable skills and some wonderful approaches to deal with that kind of scariness of, whoa, is this where I am and I'm not sure where I want to be. But you also have the VET Life helpline. You see the number there?
03030402551, and the confidential email service that can be accessed via the link you see there. So I'm not anticipating that lots of you will struggle. I'm anticipating that lots of you will benefit enormously from this course, and over the eight weeks we're going to look at The automatic pilot.
We're going to look at consolidating your bodily awareness, which is so important. We're going to have a look at how we can use the breath to anchor our attention. We're going to explore the importance of just staying present.
And we're going to have A session where we really look at the importance of being more accepting of just what is and letting go of the stuff that we hold onto even though it doesn't work for us at all. So session 5 is looking at letting go, and then we start to look at thoughts and recognising that thoughts really are not facts, they are just mental pictures and words that thoughts in themselves can bully us. And then we start to look at right as the course is coming to an end, how can we use this mindfulness to really look after ourselves as we carry on into our futures?
And finally, we look at the importance of acceptance and change from a mindfulness perspective. So I wonder if this is you. That certainly was me.
10 years ago and that could be and me still, if I'm really honest, this is still me sometimes now, much less than it used to be. So I'm out there in a beautiful day walking my dog Billy and the sun is shining and the dog is taking in the warmth of the sun and the dog is looking around and enjoying what it sees, and the dog is right in the moment enjoying this walk. Whereas perhaps I am walking the dog and seeing it as a chore, but I'm wandering about with my head full of all of this stuff.
And it's all of this stuff that perhaps is some of you guys out there today. And the wonderful thing about that is this can change because the moment we stop and we Anchor our attention and we're brave enough to say, what am I doing? Why am I walking out here on this gorgeous day with a mind full of work or a mind full of worry or a mind full of everything else rather than just being mindful.
And I think that's, that in itself is very, very important. So let's just have a think about how mindfulness perhaps can help people working in the veterinary industry in other ways. Well, there are two main components to the course, and the first component to the course is, of course, the meditations.
So if you'll just bear with me for a few moments, I would like to share some of the evidence base around the importance of just the meditations. I have adapted this course, so I'm not expecting very busy veterinarians and people working in vet practises to be meditating for 40 minutes twice a day by the end of the course, as is the expectation of some courses. I'm being pragmatic.
My hope is that you will reach between 10 and 20 minutes of meditating in a day. And even if you are only able to bring 10 minutes. Meditation to your day, you will make, it will help you and it will make significant differences to the way you live your life.
But the evidence base hovers around the evidence suggesting that if we want to get that relaxation response where our cortisol drops and our Executive functioning improves, which includes your memory and your ability to make decisions rather than decisions being made by your fear mind or by your automatic pilot. In order to get to there, there was a piece of research came in 2007 by a researcher called Dusek, D U S E K. And what Dussek found was that after 17 and when people had been meditating for after a month.
And they got their practise up to about 17.5 minutes a day. Now that doesn't mean 17.5 minutes in one sitting.
The beauty about this course is that you can be mindful in the way that I'm mindful. So this morning, even though it was a very early start, I woke up and I just did a 10 minute. Mindfulness of the breath exercise.
And then I got up and I walked Billy the dog, and while I was walking, I spent some time doing mindfulness of sound. And then later on today I will do a 3 stage breathing space which takes 3 minutes. And then tonight before I go to bed, I will probably do the leaves on a stream meditation because it helps me sleep.
So when I add all that up, I'm running at about between 15 and 20 minutes a day. Now I'm someone who up to 10 years ago used to suffer with extreme levels of anxiety and depression, and I would be off work with it and I would sometimes be frankly quite suicidal and quite poorly. Now I'd had therapy before, but I went to a different therapist this time, and put yourself in my shoes, a senior mental health professional who people come to, and there was I falling apart regularly, and I felt a huge sense of stigma about this, but the therapist I saw came from a mindfulness approach and introduced me to mindfulness and introduced me to the importance of this.
More compassionate, more accepting way of viewing myself by engaging with mindfulness, and I don't know whether this is, I can't really claim any scientific evidence for this, but I've not had a bout of depression or a bout of clinical anxiety, and I've been one of the happiest people I know for the last 10 years since, and the thing that's different is I meditate every day, and if only you could speak to my children. Because my children still talk about how they saw their dad switch from this quite neurotic individual to someone who calm, relaxed, happy, motivated, and I would just say that that's what I want. So the first part of mindfulness is the meditation, but the second part of mindfulness is the stance, shifting the way we look at the world and trying to be more mindful in our daily activities.
Which means things like why when a shower can be the most invigorating, pleasurable, beautiful experience, why do we rush in and out of the shower and not stop whilst we're in the shower to feel the warmth, to inhale some of the steam? To smell the lemon scented wash that we're putting on ourselves, to feel the droplets, to really experience, because just a shower on its own can be life enhancing. And one of the things that the wonderful John Cabot Zinn says is what mindfulness brings us is the ability to do more of what enhances our life and less of what depletes our life.
So mindfulness in this course is made up of the two components. The meditation and the learning how to live a more mindful life. Now on your workbook, which comes in page 4, so we sent you a workbook, the way the course works is you'll be sent this recording later on today or tomorrow, and you'll be sent the first of the meditations via a URL link which takes you to my YouTube channel, and it will be the body scan today.
But I would say that it's really worth you having a look at page 4 of the workbook. So if I turn to page 4 now. What you'll see there is a just some reflections for you at the start of the course, and it would be really important, I think, that you engaged with these.
So the first question just asks us, what's my intent or purpose in engaging in this course? What do I hope for for myself? How do I want to change the life that I live?
How do I want to benefit the people in my life? What are my deepest hopes and aspirations? And it asks you to make a personal vow or aspiration which kind of communicates that wholehearted intention.
That I hope we're going to have by the end of the course. Now, I would really encourage you to complete that because if you can make the commitment to stop now and mindfully think about, well, why am I on this course? What do I want to get from it?
It will garner that sense of commitment. And you'll see here I've written one of the most frustrating things that a lot of people I work with is they come and see me for their first assessment, and I say, you know, what do you want from therapy? And they say, I just want to be happier.
I just don't, I want to be less unhappy. I want to be full of hope again. I want to get my life back.
And I say, are you willing to put the work in and to make change and to practise and do? And then I sometimes see people stop and say, Well, how much time do I have to give it, Mike? And I usually say, you know, not more than about 10 or 12 minutes a day.
And some people, you see them baulk at that thought 10 or 12 minutes a day. And I think that one of the most frustrating things in life is if we hope things will change and we stick to that hope, but we do nothing about it. What's Invigorating, exciting, fantastic, in fact, is when we make commitment.
And we join that commitment to our sense of hope, and that's what page 4 is about. Now John Cabot Zinn, you'll hear me talk about him a lot. I just think he's marvellous.
John and I would encourage any of you to read any of his books, really, maybe . Couple of books, Peace in a Frantic World or Full Catastrophe Living, Mindfulness by Dummies is another good book. But John, one of the things that John talks about and the way he describes the importance of ongoing practise of the meditations themselves is he talks about weaving your parachute, and John says that every time that you stop and you devote time to meditating, Or to living more mindfully, you're weaving that parachute so that when things get tough and you fall, your landing is not hard and painful, but your landing is soft and guided and in the sense of the landing that one gets with a parachute.
So the meditations and the practise is, is absolutely essential. I can't tell you how important that is. So The first meditation we're going to do.
Today is the body scan, and let me just talk to you a little bit about the body scan. So all of next week your home task. The practise, your home practise we might call it, is to do the body scan once a day.
Now that's just 7 minutes of meditation. And on the last course, I can't tell you the amount of. Veterinarians and staff that when we came back in haven't had a chance to meditate every day.
It's 7 minutes, you know, and 7 minutes is A, a tiny amount of time in the day. But it's 7 minutes. Think about hope with commitment.
It's 7 minutes that's beginning this journey of taking you to so much of a better place. So you'll see the slides there of the clouds when you are doing your body scan. Meditation I guarantee that thoughts will push themselves into your mind.
You'll get distracted by sounds. You'll have problems with Smells, problems with interruptions. If we get cross with those interruptions, those thoughts, if we become frustrated by them, then it hampers the usefulness of the meditative process.
And I wonder whether we can just think about this for a moment. You might be sitting in your garden and a cloud sort of just passes. Over your head and you're enjoying the sun and you look at that cloud, and you will it to move.
Come on, get out the way, I want the sun again. You have a choice right at that moment because if all of your cajoling and threatening that cloud to move, the cloud will move in its own time. We're much better to just observe it, to smile at it, and notice that when we're ready we can bring our attention back ourselves.
So When we do the meditation, the breathing space, the body scan meditation and the breathing space next week actually, you will find that that sense of thoughts and interruptions being a bit like clouds. There's no point being cross with them. There's no point being angry with them.
There's no point making any judgement about them. The sun will shine again when it's good and ready. We just need to wait.
For the thought to shift for our attention to come back and we can just direct our attention back to the meditation. So the purpose of the body scan is for us to be more truly in the moment experiencing our bodily sensations as they really are. Now one of the joys of mindfulness is we start to experience bodily sensations, much, much more which are pleasurable.
I talked about the shower earlier. Mindful eating, we experience eating becomes much more of a joy than it is when we are mindlessly eating. We experience the, just the soothing touch of another, so much more.
Beautifully, I suppose. But also from a stress perspective, the body scan teaches us to see what's happening in our body as it really is, not in the exaggerated. Technicolour that our anxious mind makes us think we're, we're, we're experiencing it.
So the classic symptoms of stress, the tightness, the The the feeling of stress in our throat, our jaws being tight, the gastrointestinal disturbance that we get when we're stressed now. What mindfulness won't change straight away is the is is how much of that you're getting, but what it will do is do two things. It will allow you to experience it as it really is, not as your fear brain says it is.
So it's not an awful feeling in my tummy. It's just a bit of burbling. It's not a killer headache.
It's just some pain above the right side of my eye. Do you see the difference, seeing it as it really is rather than as our exaggerating mind says it is? But the second thing it does is we become mindful of the fact that we've been walking around our practise with our shoulders somewhere up past our ears, and what mindfulness does is it is the more mindful we become of our body, the better we are about just saying, what's my, why are my shoulders up around my ears?
That can't be helpful and just letting them drop. Why am I rushing around when I could be walking at a leisurely slow pace? So with no more ado, let's get on with our first meditation.
Ideally, when you're at home, you might find that you want to do the body scan lying down with your feet slightly raised and Just making sure that you're comfortable but not too comfortable because we don't want you to fall asleep, not just yet. For now, I suggest that we move into what I call the sitting mountain position, which means that you're sitting with your feet firmly on the ground. That your Posture is dignified, so your back is straight.
I'm just gonna move myself, and you're in a comfortable position and that your head is sort of looking out to where the horizon might be. OK. Now in a moment I'm going to ask you to close your eyes.
If you're comfortable to close your eyes, I believe it's better to do a meditation with our eyes closed. It stops visual stimulation from pulling our mind away from the task. But if you struggle to close your eyes, just fix your spot, your eyes on a spot on the floor or on the wall in front of you.
And with no more ado, this is about a 6 minute meditation. Let's just get on and enjoy. So, The body scan meditation.
I'd like us to begin. By just taking your attention. Outside of the room that you're meditating in.
I'm just listening to the sounds outside of the room. Bringing your attention in. I'm listening to any sounds that might be in this room.
And then centering your attention. Right there with you and your body and your breath. Just go find your breath.
There it is. Breathing in. And breathing out.
Breathing in. And breathing out, not trying to change your breath. Or manipulate it in any way to breathe more calmly.
Just observing what is. Just being in the moment. As we meditate.
And then shifting your attention. They're escorting your attention down your body. Down the right side, down the right back.
Down past the shins into the feet. Until we find the toes of your right foot. Very nice.
And to just sit with the toes of your right foot. And notice like me, have you started wiggling your toes. Nobody asked us to, but we started to do that.
Maybe let that go. I'm curious, why did I start? Do that.
Can I not just be with my toes? In a state of stillness. So there's a curiosity to mindfulness.
And let's see if we can't connect with the spaces. Between your toes. And let go.
And then direct your attention across. And find the toes of your left foot. And again, automatically, look how automatic this is, we start wiggling.
Paying attention on purpose. If you want to wiggle, wiggle, but if you want to be still, be still. Again, finding the space between the toads.
And then shifting your attention. And bringing your attention to your tummy. You may be placing your hand.
Gently on your tummy. Feeling the warmth of your hand and that sense of pressure. I'm bringing all of your attention.
To stammer. Feeling the rise and fall of your tummy. As you breathe.
Is there burbling, is there gurgling? Does it feel relaxed? Is that tightness?
Is that pain? Just stay with it. And notice that already.
Your executive mind is choosing to send your attention elsewhere. So let's send our attention. Up to our scalp and our forehead.
Bring all of your attention to that part of your body. Just now to him. Any itches, any tingles?
Any sensation at all. And a curiosity too, but I wonder if that feeling, that tingle. It's there all of the time, but I'm mindless about it, because I'm not scanning my scan.
And if your mind wanders, as I'm sure it already has. Smile, smile at the mind. You want?
Where have you gone? My mind was taken by sound. My mind was taken by a thought.
Not the urge to be frustrated and let that go. Still smiling. And with a smile of compassion.
Gently escort your attention back. That's Just fine. Your breath again.
And let's bring our mindful attention to the movement. Of the breath in our body as we breathe in. Does our rib cage move upwards and outwards?
And as we breathe out, does everything soften into place. Fantastic. Now for the last minute of this meditation.
I'm going to ask you guys to send your attention. The different parts of your body you choose. You'll find your elbow.
You'll find your eyes, your jaw. You'll find your lower back. But send your attention.
To wherever you want your attention to go and then stay with that part of the body and explore it. Mindfully. We're just going to do this for one minute.
And Stopped exploring. And as we bring this meditation to a close. Just reflect on how you've done.
Notice if there's any frustration. And smile. Just part of the process, what is it?
And well done. And that's our first meditation together. And the body scan is one of the staple meditations of the mindfulness based stress reduction course because You know, it really does help us to No longer be in quite such an automatic pilot state because on automatic pilot we're much more likely to have those buttons pressed and You know, those unhelpful thoughts, feelings, and sensations that we might be dimly aware of that very often trigger sort of habits of thinking that are unhelpful or lead to stress or just by getting better at Being aware of the role that our body plays because interestingly, The, in terms of the neurological evidence, what we know is that when we are in a stressful, when something happens that causes stress, we get the bodily reaction first, then comes the thought, then comes the behaviour.
So if we can become much better at just noticing that our body and the stress that our body is holding. It's kind of ruling our lives a little bit. We can start to become more aware from moment to moment of our thoughts and our feelings and our bodily sensations.
And we can give ourselves the possibility of more choice, because we don't have to go down the same old mental ruts that have caused us problems in the past at all. So to begin with, we consciously place our attention in different parts of our body as we did just now. And we're sort of using each part of the body as a focus to anchor our attention and our awareness in that moment.
And every time we do the body scan, we're training ourselves to place our attention. And our awareness in different places. At will.
So the process of entering more deeply. Into our current experience is really the aim of that body scan, meditation, which forms the main home practise part of today's course. Well done, So When we start to look at the whole issue of practise, I don't want to labour it, but I do think that, you know, patience and persistence is really important because we will be working to change some deeply established mental patterns.
And of course, because of that does involve time and some effort. And You know, the effects of Really working over this next 8 weeks, I sometimes think it's a bit like gardening. We've started right now to prepare the soil.
We've maybe planted the mindful seed, but it's your job to make sure that that mindful seed is watered and nourished. And if you're watering and nourishing that mindful seed with practise, I promise you. As long as you're watering it and practising, you will gain benefits from this cause.
It's almost impossible not to, but you've got to do it within the spirit of mindfulness, non-judgementally, curiously and often. So please try and do the body scan 6 times before we meet again, and you'll be sent the body scan meditation. If you'd like to, you'll see the slide there asks you.
You'll see, you'll see that there's a home practise recording form, and try and make a note because it is so helpful. It just sort of galvanises our thinking and allows us to concentrate in a different way when we write things down. And then perhaps choose a routine activity in your daily life, and I love mindful showering.
You'll see I've talked there about brushing your teeth, drying your body, getting dressed, mindful driving, eyes open, please. Taking out the rubbish. Some of my favourite things though are.
I was a huge David Bowie fan and I, after his death, I started relistening mindfully to all I've got a lot on vinyl, and I started re-listening to a lot of the music and you know, because I, I, I listened to it from a mindful perspective, I found so much more in the sound, in the words, and the experience, some nuances that I'd missed despite being a Bowie fan for like Too long to probably 40 years. That's a bit scary. But just mindful listening to music, what a difference that makes, becomes such a wonderful invigorating, joyous experience.
So we're coming to the end of our session today. Thank you all so much for taking part. And I hope you enjoyed it.
Really looking forward to session 2, where we start to look at the breath and do your practise, engage with the session, and really look forward to seeing you again soon. I'll see if there's time for any questions that may have been sent through, and I'm happy to answer a few, I think. Oh, thank you, Mike.
That was fantastic. Certainly feel a lot more, relaxed now. It's lovely.
Just before we start the questions and answers, you probably know we have a short survey. If you would kindly spare some time to provide feedback, we would be very grateful. The feedback is anonymous, so if you, if you did want to, get a response, please just pop your email address and name into.
The survey. And on that note, could I just dive in a second? Of course you can, yeah, absolutely.
And we're also doing some research with the University of Northampton, so you will be receiving a link just to do one questionnaire. That too is completely anonymous and it's gone through research ethics. So I'd really ask you if you would be kind enough to complete the research because we are looking to see whether we can get an evidence base for how mindfulness might be useful as a way of helping people working in your industry to cope better.
So just if you get, if you could do that, it would be lovely. Yeah, absolutely we will be emailing that out to you. So they'll receive that in from the webinar vet.
Oh, thank you. No problem at all. So with questions, we just have a few questions, Mike, if you're, if you're happy to answer those, so.
Absolutely fantastic. Somebody's asked, what is it more beneficial to meditate as an individual or in within a group? To begin with, I think it's much more beneficial to meditate on, on your own because The beauty of this course really is that most of us will be in your lovely warm houses and meditating, meditating on your own rather than as I always did when I first started my mindfulness practise, having to drive out some cold and it was cold, dingy church hall on a hard floor and to be honest, mindfulness.
It is a, is a lovely thing to do together. Once you've really kind of got there and it's not your beginner's mind anymore, but your mindful practise is well established. It's a lovely experience to meditate in a group and to get that sense of cohesion that a group process brings.
But at this stage, I think it's so helpful that we can do it, just us. And our worlds and our minds because most mindful, most people access mindfulness in a group format because otherwise it would be too expensive. You know.
And that's, and that's the beauty of webinar, really. It, it brings it out to so many more people that are in a much more achievable way, I think. Yeah, absolutely.
And on that note, someone's asked as well, is it possible to completely clear the minds of all thoughts? I've never managed. You know, there are some mindful Zen masters that you probably can, but strangely enough, that wouldn't be.
In, in, in the true sense of mindfulness actually, because it's not mind emptiness, it's mindfulness, and it's about getting this sense of equanimity that do you know what, these thoughts that come into our mind are just thoughts, and the sensations we get are just sensations. So an aim to clear the mind really isn't a great aim. For mindfulness, and there are the mindfulness research suggests there are 3 sort of states of mindfulness.
There's an unpleasant state, that's when we're meditating and we're aware of itches, interruptions, frustrations. There's a, a, a, a very pleasant, enjoyable state when we're really kind of in the moment and feeling peaceful and calm. And then, and you will find this from time to time, there's nothing.
So there is that Period of time where Almost we're, you know, you know, there is nothing. It's, it's, it's we're experiencing no, we're experiencing no experience whatsoever. Interesting, isn't it?
Yeah, absolutely. No, it's fantastic. I've had tiny little glimpses of that.
It's, it's the most amazing feeling. And we just you go a bit floaty. Yes.
And then you start to think, oh, I'm floating now and then. And that when you get that, it is lovely, isn't it? It is, it is.
Yeah, yeah, it's lovely. And I, you know, I don't get that. I don't, I, you know, I am someone with a very busy mind, so quite often I am spending my time smiling at the thoughts that are pushing their way in.
Oh, me too. That's fine. Yeah, absolutely.
There's another question just about music, whether you'd recommend using music in meditation. That was just another question. I, I, I would say no, not at this stage.
I never use, I never, I, I meditate now. I still like guided meditations 10 years down the road. I tend to listen to John Cabot Zinn's recordings, and they're, they're not with music.
You don't want anything else because you, you, you might want calming music if the purpose of mindfulness was purely to gain relaxation. But that isn't the purpose of mindfulness. The purpose of mindfulness is to be more present in the moment.
So I would really encourage you that you don't need music. You know, you can find that you can engage with music more mindfully if you choose to listen to music mindfully, as I said earlier, what an experience that is. You don't need music to meditate.
Yeah. OK. Oh fantastic, Mike.
Thank you very much for answering those questions. My pleasure. And if anybody does have any questions, Would you be happy if they did send you an email?
Absolutely. I think the email out, aren't you? It's Doctor Mike at gmail.com.
Yeah, fabulous. We'll pop that into the emails as well. Thank you very much.
Well, thanks again. That was really, really enjoyed. That was fantastic.
We looking forward to next week's, thank you very much, Dan, for co-hosting with me and also obviously to the RCVS and Mind Matters initiative for making this all possible. Hope you all enjoy the rest of your evening, your day, wherever you may be, and we really look forward to seeing you all next week, which will be Wednesday, the 8th of February February. So look forward to seeing you then.
Thanks very much. Bye bye. Bye now.