We, could see there are quite some questions already here in the Q&A chat box, which is great. Thanks for asking this, and also a few ones from the Uber app. So, given the times, perhaps we, we could just start with those questions.

What do you think? Yeah, OK, great. .

So, please just as a reminder, don't do as I do. I have to switch my mic on, but please do for the attendees, do switch your microphones off. I will just let the speakers be able to, to talk on those ones.

And so let's go for the question you asked, and thanks again for this. So, there was one, several questions actually about, the, the, the real choice of novel protein and so on. So one specific question was about how difficult it is to choose the right novel protein.

This is a good question for sure, and, perhaps I don't know, who wants to start for this one, perhaps Anna or Eliza, if you want to give your, your insights. Yes. Thank you.

What they use normally is a rabbit or kangaroo, because they are a very different animal from those that are normally used. I can also use a vegetable like a tofu and a quinoa that are also good alternatives. I know that I don't know if in Europe we have, at least in Switzerland, we don't have the alligator.

Some also use the alligator. I honestly avoid the pork, because, it is easy for the, for the owner, . To give normally like a form of ham or sausages.

And also there are cross reaction with chicken. In the last period, we also saw insect-based diet or just insect like a sort of in the market, I mean, we can, still have contamination if you use the commercial diet that contain insect. But if you use the insect that for a sword, like in a homemade diet, this can still interfere, I guess, with the diagnostic process because if, I, I believe that if a dog has a concurrent house dust mite allergy, it may be not improved with the diet because of the cross reaction.

With the tropomin, someone else, I think in the chat, proposed to use the frog. Why not? However, I read that, at least in a human, have been documented some anaphylaxis due to the injections of frog meat.

In, kids that had also concurrent other food allergies, for example, fish, so they, they, they think that there may be a close reaction between fish and frogs. Of course, if, the dog already, try a lot of other, proteins and especially those dog that are fed with also with the leftover from the table, I prefer to give an extensively hydrolyzed diet because of the risk that they already high and I've been sensitised to everything is possible. So, Yeah, I hope I as well.

Thanks, yes. I think so. I don't know if somebody wants to add on top of this.

Isabel. I also, tend to do the same size as a life, but, I also taking always taking account, of course, the previous exposure history and the meats that are available, specifically in the country. So, for them here it's possible to to get horse meat, pork is very easy.

It's not the most perfect one, but, it is, one of the, one of, we can pick up that meat because it's cheap and easy to buy. So I guess that's what I want, and rabbit, rabbit, I use a lot of rabbit, with, I guess that the, it is sometimes very difficult at the end to find the right new source of protein. Or is a question of which one is the best, or it is a question of cost, or it's a question of how I'm going to buy it, no one is going to buy it and cook it.

So I tend more to work with hydrolyzed diets, in order to avoid that problem, especially in patients that have been exposed to almost everything or everything. So it solves this problem around. That we face every day or very frequently.

Thanks a lot. Thanks for completing the, the, the answer. I want to say one thing that I want to emphasise, and Eliza has said that already, and Anna obviously doesn't quite agree with this, but I do, pork is something that almost every dog is exposed to on a regular basis.

That may not be just the sausages, at least in Germany. But when you read meat byproducts on the, on the package insert, that usually is everything that gets thrown away in the slaughterhouse. And in the slaughterhouse, a lot of the meat that's slaughtered is pigs.

So there will be pig antigen in most dog foods with that particular nomination of meat byproduct. And most of those have those. So I tend to stay away if I can, even though I know it's not that common, and even though I know that it's not the major pure meat source in many of those diets.

Sorry. No, it was enough. It's, it's useful, absolutely.

Thanks for for this insights. We can switch to, to another one. There was a question about what may be the most common cross reaction between pollens and vegetables and or fruits.

You want to answer this one. I think it's a fast answer. We don't know.

Basically, we do have a fair number of data and studies in human medicine, but to my knowledge, we only have one case report in the literature in dogs and nothing in cats, because the IGE test studies you can forget because they're not clinically confirmed. So we don't know. We have no idea at this point.

I, I would add to that, that would be a reason why we want to try to be as concise as possible if we're going to engage in novel protein, novel carbohydrate to try to keep it very consistent and concise, to avoid adding in any complicating factors just like that. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Thanks for this. . Several questions around raw feeding.

So, for the first one, there was a question about looking for tips on dealing with pet owners who are really kind of raw obsessed, and the dogs, quote, cannot have food allergy because a raw food has no additive. So the question was basically if such kind of pet owners refuse hydrolyzed based diet, what would you recommend a specific novel protein in this case? One that they have not fed.

Sure. Yeah. So what I tell them that I would never feed my dog a poultry-based bath diet because of the salmonella issue that is less important for the dog, but certainly important for the owners.

And we have done studies in Munich and other places showing that this salmonella infestation is not so rare in, in poultry meat. And, and then, of course, it depends on what the dog previously had. So we, if they buy meat for human consumption, and that could be horse or rabbit as well, I don't have a problem if they want to feed that raw.

But, but it should, it should be basically not poultry. Thank you. Yeah, I read that at least 20% of owner, they can get a salmonella just kissing their their pets or just manipulating the, the the meat and it doesn't change if they, they have frozen or frozen the, the meat because salmonella can stay after one the meat is still be present.

So absolutely I agree with the, with him. And I think the only advice that I can give to this owner that decided to, to feed the raw meat, not poultry, is to ask a nutritionist because most of them, they continue after the trial with the diet and there is a, a big risk of unbalanced diet. And that's it, yeah.

Thanks. The impressive data you gave about just kissing dogs, you know, some do it OK. Perhaps we can, there was several questions actually around salmonella risk and so on.

So, one was precisely about, what about a kind of a short blast of microwave to kind of kill or decrease bacteria, load, or like boiling water for the ones who are really want to cook for their pets. And another one was about are you personally you, you guys using raw frozen food, so perhaps I don't know Eliza, if you want to, to build on that or the other ones. No, not.

I, I basically don't think microwaving helps if you don't microwave it all the way through, and then you may as well boil it. Of course, you can, you can, with enough heat, you can kill the salmonella. That's why, but then it's not raw anymore.

But just a quick blast of hot water or microwave, I would consider not necessarily a guarantee that it works, even though it may decrease the amount of bacteria on the surface. OK, thanks. Professor, another question for you.

There are actually there are 22 questions. It interested people to know which spice precisely you do use to increase palatability in cat's food and perhaps which one you would recommend not to use. The, the answer is always, it depends, on the availability and what the owners want to want to do.

What I don't want to do is excessive amounts of garlic or onions because they're toxic. If you go over 5 grammes per kilo, I think is a, is a, is a, margin, for dogs. What I often use is a tiny bit of salt.

What I often use is a little bit of the kitchen herbs or rosemary or thyme or something like this. And it is really trial and error, and Of course, you don't necessarily say it's trial and error. You basically explain to them that dogs are like humans.

They have different tastes and so you just have to see what works best in the individual situation. I think the most Effective measure for me is still heating it up. So if, if, if the food's warm, often they like it a lot more than when it's cold, but again, I have used a little bit of those herbs or spices on occasion.

That's reasonable. And I'm interested if, if one of the others or all of the others have different favourites or ideas about that. I also use a sword but just a tiny bit and also soja the soja but a little bit also is the thing if the dog never ate soya before.

OK, thanks. A different, type of question. There was one about what would be your recommendation for nutritional solutions for AFL dogs who also, present with GI issues, who may have like, like low appetite, who may be vomiting, perhaps a bit underweight.

Would you have some recommendations, so. We may want to address this one. One of the things that I think helps the most in those cases because ultimately that restrictive diet can make, can make a difference, is a very slow transition of that diet.

I feel that that helps if there's something they like to eat slowly transitioning, because, you know, the quick transitions can further reduce the appetite or, or promote GI upset in my experience, and then Sometimes if I've got a good probiotic source where I know that there's no dairy in it, and I'm very, like they have one in the United States called Proviable that I like, sometimes that helps too. It's just that with probiotics, you have to be very careful because many of them have dairy in it, and so that can be problematic. Thank you.

May I ask you something that is very important if the owner is concerned about this also to ask to weigh the dog every week because, what happened is after two months of diet, the dog lost weight. I don't know why. Maybe it just left.

The diet is different. The owner didn't give the correct amount of food, so it's better to ask this so they can adapt or the amount of keyboard or diet anyway. And I think that's a good point.

The diet trial is a really good way to get animals to get the dog to lose weight if you make that recommendation. As a second, it's just noticed as a secondary thing, they're not getting all these treats, so sometimes that's a nice spinoff is healthy weight loss too. I think partly it's probably also due to the less fat content of many of the diet proteins that we use.

Thanks for answers on this one. A completely different one. The question about storage mice, and regarding, any specific, fear regarding dry food potential contamination with those mites, specifically in in dogs who may have combined issues food allergy and canopic dermatitis.

So perhaps Doctor Olivera and Mueller may want to Talk about this. Ladies first. Well, I always, very careful about the storage mite, in the diet, because, first off, I'm in a warm country, which helps definitive proliferation of the mites.

I do advise the owners to buy a new bag of diet if they are, doing a food trial or if they are going for the challenge and to store it properly in sealed containers. Not just one might, if it is a big bag, might need two or three sealed containers. And to store it in a dry place, and not very hot, mainly home conditions.

So, I always go through this, this issue with the owners, and I picked up many owners that do not storage the, the diet properly. They just closed the back just briefly and definitely end up with contaminations. So, I think it's something that it's important to to avoid, especially if we potentially have an atopic dog that might be flaring up during the mite proliferation.

Ralph, you do want to add, since you wrote the paper. Yes, please, I know. I want to add that this is completely depending on where you practise.

So if Jennifer and I would do that, nothing would matter because in the climate that we live in, we can have the dog food open for 8 months in the backyard and no storage might would ever grow on it. And we have done actually studies where we looked at this in Munich. And I, I, I remember one sample that I had in my basement, 8 months open that was kind of overlooked when we moved in and then sat there for a long time.

And I thought, oh, I can't really give this to the dog anymore. But I do this studies, so I'll use it as a sample. Not a single storage mite was found in this sample.

And we have found in, in, I think we did 100 food samples, we didn't find a single food sample contaminated. On the other hand, when you look at that Spanish paper with conditions similar to where Ana practises, they had samples in the garage and samples in the lab, and the samples in the garage walked off after 6 weeks because they had so many storage sites in them, because it's just warmer. So if you're in a warm climate in the states, Louisiana, Florida or in Southern Europe, it is a completely different matter to Central or northern Europe.

Where I think you really have to have persona to get them grow, so this is, this is the only thing I can say, you know, it depends on where you are, really, if this is a problem or not. Thanks a lot. Just seeing that the time is actually over, but there are still many questions.

Perhaps our suggestion may be that we, come back to all attendees was question through specific, stream we may have on, on the app because it seems it allows to have these kind of things. So we'll gather all the remaining questions and and address it this way if you don't mind thank you for download the app, right. Yes.

Didn't it work for you or? I haven't even tried. OK.

I'm, I'm quite bad at this and it worked, so it should be OK. Otherwise, we, we'll set up another way, but perhaps this way may be the easiest one. Thanks, thanks a lot for all the questions, the interest, for the topics.

Thanks a lot to the speakers, and thanks to you all who attended the the symposium. Just we need to, to, to stop it so that everybody can have a break before they can have other activity, be it professional or personal. So, just on behalf of Rayanina, I want to really, say it was an honour and a pleasure to have you all on board to hold this session, as well, I really love Dharma, as you know, and, that's why we are long term partners with, ESVC congresses.

We love sharing knowledge, and that was the goal of this session, and we really loved the great lecturers and, their skill, to, to talk to. With nice tips. This 2021 edition was a bit special for us because it's actually, we're celebrating a specific birthday.

It's genic 10 years's birthday in the field, and, we are really happy that it could help, improve quality of life of, dogs, for, for so many years and in the diagnostic World Cup. So really to everybody on behalf of Wraanin. Thanks again to the tremendous speakers.

It was really an honour and we really loved. The videos and your, and your answers. Thanks to you all attendees.

Thanks, of course, to ESVD ECVD organiser and also indeed to PCO and the webinar vet for making this all possible. So we really wish you a nice evening and a wonderful congress, and, we're really looking forward to seeing you all for real next year in Porto. Thanks a lot.

Bye bye. Right.