Hello, Anthony Chadwick from the webinar vet, really pleased to have everyone on a new episode of Vet Chat, and I'm very fortunate today to have somebody who's been quite inspirational, for myself and for the webinar vets in getting us very much firmly on the sustainability road, and it's April Sottermayer who is the lead for the investors in the environment organisation that has been really helping. To lead the veterinary profession in becoming more sustainable, so April, it's great to have you on the podcast. Thank you for having me, Anthony.
April, obviously, you know, we know that you're the lead of the investors in the environment, but what brought you to that that place, what sort of set you up to be interested in sustainability and the planet? What was, what's your story? I started getting really interested in the environment back when I was in high school, actually.
I had an amazing biology teacher, and he would take us out in the states. There's a programme called Adopt a stream where it's like sort of citizen science based volunteering where you go out and you take water quality samples and you look at like the invertebrates in the bottom of stream beds, and you get a sense of local water quality. And we took part in this on a regular basis, and, you know, after I graduated, went on to do other things, but it always sort of stuck with me, and I, I really loved.
Absolutely loved zoology and just ultimately ended up studying that for a degree, so. Became a biologist, but I stayed with the water quality monitoring as I moved around in the US and I formed a few different groups and just got some local people involved, and I just loved the The rigour and the attention to the the real world and the activities that we as as humans kind of have the impact that we have on the natural world. And how you can see that through the water quality assessments that we were doing.
And through some of that work, we were able to kind of create baselines and report back to government when there were changes. So if there were fish kills or if there was, you know, eutrophication, you know, when there's some high nutrient levels in water bodies that can lead to the damage of ecosystems. So, I loved that, but what I found that I wanted to go a little bit deeper on was tackling pollution at the source rather than being, kind of on the more reactive end discovering it.
And so I started to study a master's degree in environmental management. And that's where I got sort of this, the expertise on how to address it, particularly from an organisational perspective, getting to the bottom of legislation and all that boring stuff, but really the nuts and bolts of preventing those things from happening in the first place. And so when I started working, I moved to the UK and I started working for Peck, which is an environmental charity, and you know, 7 years later I'm leading the Investors in the Environment programme, which is really helping organisations embed environmental management systems into their day to day activities to really drive good environmental performance.
That is a blast from the past, April, that word eutrification. I remember studying that when I was doing sort of A levels at school as well, but it shows the sort of effects we can, we can have on the planet and. I've just been reading a a lovely essay from the Soil Association.
The soil is so important for us, isn't it? And if we destroy that soil, if we're just using chemicals on it, it, it has so many effects not just on the soil, but then on the waterways and everything else which you're obviously saw so clearly in in that citizen science you're doing. You know, while you were at at high school and then at university, so thank you for reminding me of that word.
So the investors in the environment, obviously we. Became interested in it really because I did a webinar again because obviously I'm interested in regeneration and sustainability with Ellie West, and Ellie was telling us all about the investors and the environment, and so we investigated into that and now of course we're one of the silver businesses, so tell us a little bit for those people who perhaps aren't quite as familiar about it. Of how investors in the environment works and is this just appropriate for, for big businesses or you know can practises and smaller businesses like ourselves also get involved?
OK. So Investors in the Environment is a national accreditation scheme. We're designed to make it easier for any organisation to take environmental action and improve environmental performance.
And we do that through applying a framework through looking at engaging staff, committing to key policy objectives, thinking about what the environmental impacts are of the organisation, you know, in this case in the veterinary practise or in supportive type organisations. Thinking about once you understand what your impacts are, what the opportunities are, how to address that systematically. And throughout this is sort of upskilling the green team or green champions, understanding how to do this, putting in place, you know, good waste management, but also thinking about waste reduction, you know, which is a big impact in the veterinary profession, which has a really high level of awareness as well.
Thinking about travel, carbon emissions, thinking about, how to connect, you know, to the, the side of things that people love, you know, like with my story about, the natural environment, you know, what do your day to day activities, what kind of impact does that have on the wider world, and how can you do better? I thought it was really interesting, . I was at COP 26 and I saw somebody who was talking about people who love wine and actually what Bordeaux wine will taste like in 10 years if we don't do something about it, and actually bringing that into the everyday of saying, listen, there will be effects here, you know, we saw them last summer with the floods in Germany and and, you know, the terrible fires that we've had over the last year, but some ways that's a big, you know, I don't live in Germany, I haven't really been at the site to see the.
The devastation there, but you know, being told that very simple thing that. The wine that I love to drink will really taste really rather unpleasant in 10 years is, is something that can perhaps spur people on, isn't it? Yeah, I think finding out what is important to you is a really good thing to link Finding out what's important to your staff, you know, if you're if you're doing IIE, for example, one of the things that we recommend people do is actually a staff survey.
What is their basic awareness? Do they care about the issues? Do they know about the issues?
And what do they think the issues are, and then How can you identify some low hanging fruit in terms of getting them engaged, even if it's tiny tiny things. Or some of the bigger things, but sometimes it's small things that get to to begin to, to act, and that's the action is really where we're focused. There's a real need for policy and kind of strategy, clearly, but we try to make it so that there's, we take out the inertia from that system of thinking, where do we start with the baseline, what do we need to look at and start to think, yes, let's look at that, but also at the same time, let's think about what can we do today.
And how can we start an action plan that will be effective? They were some of my real take home messages from COP 26 that there's 3 sort of stakeholders in this situation. There is government, obviously, there's individuals and then there's business.
And actually there's a danger that if we place it all on government, we can kind of sit back and not have to do anything, and clearly government moves slowly. But you know, has done some really significant things over the last 10 years like. Put a charge on plastic bags at the supermarkets.
Make it tax efficient for people to buy electric vehicles, so they do important stuff, but they tend to be a bit slow. I think the general feedback from COP from, The big environmental groups was, you know, they were, the steps weren't big enough. But at the same time, I think what you said is is really important, you know, it's, it's my responsibility, so you know as a as a company, it was a small thing we did, but a group of us went down to my local beach and we picked up rubbish for a couple of hours.
And I think that really helps to. You know, it's a it makes a tiny difference, but if everybody makes those tiny differences, it adds up to quite a lot. And then, you know, as an individual, you know, I, I just took a trip down to the south of France and I did that all on the train, you know, I could have jumped on a plane, it probably would have been cheaper, it would have got me there quicker, but.
The journey is often the experience, isn't it? And the, the experience of stopping and taking several days to get down there and several days to get back. It's different then from a holiday, which is the plane deposits you there, you see the local area and then you go back again.
You're a tourist rather than a traveller, aren't you on a plane almost. Yeah. It's interesting.
Yeah, no, I know Ellie was obviously and and Davis effects were, were at the vanguard of this with investors in the environment, but you know, we were chatting before and actually. They are no longer the only ones, as I said, we, we got investors in the environment, the, the silver category, we're working on the green, April, so don't worry, we are working on that. But I noticed also the Royal College now have gone through investors in the environment and I believe BVA as well.
But I know there's a lot of, of practises, but also businesses. I noticed Betaquinol have. Your emblem on their stand very, very proudly at the London Vet show, so it must make you really thrilled to see so many people in the veterinary profession wanting to get involved in this crusade that you've you've started with investors in the environment.
Yes, it's incredibly exciting and I think it's It's a story that needs to get out there in other professions that aren't acting as a profession. I think that's something that that Ellie's been really Kind of essential in in terms of how she raised the profile of the issues, and she used her passion and her expertise as sort of, licence to be able to talk about these, crucial issues. Yeah, and, and so what we're seeing is as a result of the activism led by Ellie and some others in the profession, that sustained as well, which is one of our partners that are constantly, .
It has to be said, all these people are volunteers that are doing this sort of in their own time through a passion and driving forward all sorts of different initiatives to enable change, get people involved, raise awareness and raise the profile of what we're trying to do, . But there is just a tremendous opportunity now with so many veterinary teams and individuals because there's that high level of engagement, it's had ripple effects across the profession, but also those that support. The profession, so organisations that produce products or others that have really significant impacts of their own that are now responding to the awareness levels in the veterinary profession and they're acting and they're stepping up.
And they've seen that there is a path that they can get on and they can start improving and and understanding what their impacts are and what they need to do, whether it's you know the net zero conversation, strategy, but how can they act today to Start to get on that path. And that's been a really exciting thing to be a part of and to see. And as you said, you know, inspiring stories in the midst of a pandemic, people are working, you know, in unusual ways, are very busy as well.
So it just shows how passionate, some people are about the environment, about regeneration and sustainability as well. Yeah, with the last two years being so. Difficult for everybody, but as an outsider to the profession as well, having witnessed it, through a lot of one to ones because we support our members through 1 to 1, meetings and conversations and troubleshooting.
And just seeing the pressures that people are under, you know, the reduction of staff across the profession at the same time as you've got increased case loads and demand for services, less time, the issues around the pandemic, illnesses, all sorts of stress. People are still managing to achieve amazing things despite the challenges, and I think that that that message is absolutely inspiring. Because if they, if they can do it, if busy vet teams can do it.
You know, everybody else can. April, obviously you may not want to give individual stories away, but give us a kind of an idea of some of the things that have really impressed you that that's are doing either and nurses obviously in practises or, you know, in some of the bigger companies that you're maybe also dealing with. We have some case studies on the website, some stories are still .
Being put together to celebrate. But what I've seen is Just the most humble stuff, you know, there was a one that we published recently actually. Where a veterinary nurse had noticed that, you know, overuse of incontinence pads and the, the volume, sheer volume of waste, and so she tackled it from a purchasing policy perspective and vastly reduced the quantities that they were using in practise and will save practise, you know, about 16,000 pounds a year.
And it's another waste stream that they don't need to deal with anymore. I've seen yesterday I spoke with a vet, who was so excited about this project that her staff have undertaken over the last year, which was to create this, wildlife space. They've got the, they're in an area that's not particularly green in terms of green spaces, but they managed to to carve out a a piece of land and improve it by, you know, adding pollinator friendly, plantings, putting in, an oak tree, getting staff to go out and do things like litter picks, and just use the space, and people were happy to take that time.
So what they did was that they're as busy as any practise you can talk to, but they, they chose a day and they created a rota where about 12 different staff at different times could go out for an hour. And just work on planting and tidying the area, and, and they were just so excited by that achievement, and they all felt such a sense of purpose and connection to, you know, the water saving and the energy saving and the waste reduction efforts and that, you know, that's what it's all about, is ultimately improving the natural environment and human well-being too. Mm.
I think it's interesting sometimes people perhaps from the outside look at things like sustainability and think, oh it's just something more that we have to do that's gonna cost us, whereas that first example you gave, you know, often doing the right thing actually now. Doesn't need to cost more, so changing over to renewable energy sources rather than. You know, energy that's coming from perhaps nuclear or from coal doesn't necessarily have to cost a lot and actually if you start looking at this waste.
You know, saving the practise 16,000 pounds is an enormous amount of money, isn't it? Absolutely, and there's, it's quite nuanced because you'll find if we change our thinking to whole life cost and life cycle, and you think about, OK, maybe right now it's going to cost me. You know, a bit to put up some solar panels or to change this heating system.
But what is the overall cost going to be to you or to your practise in 5 years or 10 years, and what's the benefit? And also, what's the cost? What's the, that opportunity cost if you don't do it?
What are also some of the benefits that will come along with that, you know, with the accreditation, that's a clear hook for people to take action because it shows. That they're working towards something and when they achieve it, they can, they've got something to show for it. So the marketing obviously is a major driver for some organisations and not wrongly so, but part of that needs to be the stories coming out as to why you achieved it and how to make the most of those opportunities in terms of communication and engagement.
But upfront cost isn't certainly when you're just looking at. An issue differently like waste and eliminating things of high waste potential, you know, that isn't something that's going to cost you necessarily up front either. But it's, it's useful to think of sustainability in a very holistic way, not just what is it gonna cost me right now.
It's also thinking about the other costs associated and the benefits right. I was reading Harvard Business Review had. an issue that was all around sustainability, and they've talked about ESG ratings and how companies with a higher ESG rating tend to be valued more and so on, and in one of these podcasts that we did, we had Craig Bennett, who was saying, you know, people look to that as leaders in the community and if a practise can be seen to have solar panels on the roof.
A small wildflower garden when people go in, people notice that and. Will, you know, listen and learn from that lead that the profession is, is making. So it's great that you're from the other side starting to see those vanguard practises, those early adopting practises, and it would be great to see, you know, more and more practises getting involved, wouldn't it?
Yeah, and they're, they're helping to normalise good working practises. And there's a lot of sort of facets to it. It's the engagement side, but also through through that engagement.
You know, there's a lot of experts within the fields and specialists, and them using their, you know, amazing talents and critical thinking skills and thinking about how they can influence new ways of working and new practises that are specific to clinical work. And developing, you know, new standards and informing on, you know, how everybody else sort of behaves, so you talking about Ellie again. Lee West about what she's done around, you know, more sustainable anaesthesia and lower flow anaesthesia and, and trying to prevent, you know, excessive use with also, you know, benefits to co-benefits to patients.
Patient, health outcomes as well. But because she has that, that expert remit, she's been able to really drive change on a very specific topic. And I think I'm seeing that on some other, types of clinical work as well, which is really interesting.
I did an article for the International Journal of Animal Health and one of the stats that I pulled out from articles that Zoe had helped me to find Zoe Halfay, 8% of medical waste is recycled. You know, if we can build that up, we, we know that Beckton Dickinson do syringes that are lower in plastic. Ideally we get rid of plastic altogether, but that is, you know, that's gonna take some time, but if we can.
Start recycling 20-30% of plastic, it's a massive decrease in the amount of stuff that goes into to landfill. I think medical plastic across the way is . You know, is a huge contributor to landfill across the world, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, and, and the resources, think about also the resources that are going into those, products as well, and that is definitely an area of focus for a lot of vet practises, thinking about correctly streaming, you know, not putting certain things in clinical waste if they don't belong there because that has a higher, higher carbon footprint, higher cost, and putting it in the right bin if it can be put in general waste, for example. That would be preferred to clinical ways, but knowing for staff to know circumstances under which they would put certain items in which that, that's incredibly dull, but it can have An impact, a real impact. Hm.
Just maybe finally to finish, you know, we've talked about costs and we've talked about it not necessarily being expensive to to have a green agenda in your practise. Give us a little idea of of costs of perhaps getting in contact with you, finding out more, how much is it to, you know, to get to bronze status and how much would you charge to get to silver and green, you know, what, what are the kind of costs of being accredited, so to speak. OK.
Our pricing is actually under review at the moment, but the average veterinary practise right now is paying up between 649 and 899, and that includes the support and the accreditation, the audit, and the training as well that goes into it and all the different resources. We also charge a sort of a flat fee for any of the levels. We used to charge different fees for each level, but we found that some people were getting pigeonholed in, you know, staying at bronze and not advancing.
We didn't want price to be a factor for people to really push themselves. So we, we removed that, we assessed people overall. But it would be useful maybe to explain the difference between the levels.
Yeah. In a nutshell, bronze is about putting together a baseline. 1 year, maybe 2, understanding your environmental position, understanding what your impacts are, and we've got enough of a foothold in the vet profession that we can get some really clear recommendations on what to focus on, depending on what type of veterinary work you're doing.
Thinking about, for bronze level, you do an environmental project, whether it's litter picking or becoming a bee friendly practise. Those are really popular in in veterinary teams. Looking at waste, what you're using, how you're using it, coming in, how's it going out of the practise.
And essentially that's your first position as a bronze level member where you are environmentally and having an idea of where you want to go to next. Silver is about progress on that, that vision, that journey, refining things, making reductions on resources that you're using, and all of this is is within context of potentially growing practises, acquiring things, maybe losing parts, and, so we look at it quite holistically as well. And then green level is really about having a full environmental management system in place, whether you call it that or not.
It's having good policy, good senior management, buy-in and leadership, good staff engagement, reduction on resources and target achievements, reduction in waste, and really good handling of waste, of carbon footprint reduction, and so on and so forth. So, you can look at our website to see what's required each level, but In essence, what we want to see is people moving through the levels, and progressing and making it as easy as possible within the context of busy veterinary life to do that. And the, the website is www.ieie.uk.com.
That's great April. I, I think I would really recommend it to those who are listening who perhaps haven't started going down that road, do go and have a look at the website. I'm sure you can also send an email via the website to, to ask more specific questions or presumably you offer initial chat call for people to see if it's the right thing for them to do as well.
We're really happy to do that. We've got a very friendly team, we want to help. We're very much driven by impact.
So yeah, to get in touch, you can send us an email, our [email protected].
Email address and one of our staff will, will reply. April, it's been great having you on. As I say, you've been inspirational to the profession, to us as well, Chloe I know is on the line now, we were out in the late autumn planting, Spring bulbs, sowing more seed for our ever growing wildflower meadow that we've we've developed at the Liverpool Science Park, which is also an example then for all those other businesses, so hopefully we see, you know, growth not just in the veterinary profession, but I think if all businesses get involved.
The impact that that can have on reducing our carbon footprint over the next crucial 10 years can be immense, can't it? And not just that practises, it's the influence as well that I mentioned before, I mean that that is potentially an even greater area of impact, but it's amazing, amazing to see. April, thank you so much and thanks everyone for listening and hopefully we'll.
Have you on another podcast very soon to listen again to us. Take care everyone, bye bye.
