Hi there and welcome to Vet Chat, a new podcast for the veterinary profession brought to you by the webinar vet. We're gonna discuss all things from clinical cases to hot topical debates. I'm your host Ben Sweeney, and for the first time in my life over the episodes ahead of us, I'm aiming to listen more than I talk, and I can't wait for you to join me for the adventure.
Hi and welcome to Vet Chat. My guest today needs very little introduction. His entry to vet school was somewhat convoluted, having resat his A levels and also spent a year at dental school before realising that treating human teeth was way worse than treating animals.
One of his career highlights remains a bullock breaking his arm whilst teaching a group of vet students about safe animal handling. But all of this was frankly preamble to his year spent as BVA president, during which his social media activity was at almost Kardashian levels. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr.
Simon Docherty is here, who often sports more hats than Ladies' Day at Royal Ascot, but today he joins us with his one health hat on. Simon, thanks so much for joining us today. Just for those of us who, who maybe don't have a bit of insight on the topic, really, can you just give us a bit of background as to, you know, what is one health and what do we mean by that?
I mean, I think a lot of people have a tendency to really overthink one health, but really what we're, what we're talking about is, you know, it's very much a kind of broad transdisciplinary approach to some of the big challenges that we're facing these days. You know, if you, if you go back 20 or 30 years, you know, the veterinary profession was primarily focused on animal health, then, you know, sort of, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, we started taking more of an interest in, in, animal welfare aspects, and how there was that sort of inextricable link between health and welfare. Now I think we're taking another step forward and we're kind of saying, well, look, actually, the health and welfare of our animals is very much linked to the health and welfare of people and linked to the health and welfare of the environment.
And one health is really about bringing, all of those together. Now we, we can talk about doing one. Health and taking a one health approach to things.
But really a true one health approach is, is that transdisciplinary piece and it's bringing together people from different disciplines to really focus on those, on those kind of challenges. The, and, and certainly there's been, there's been quite a bit of talk at sort of very high strategic level about One Health, and, and we've been interested at BVA in championing real kind of live one health issues on the ground. In the UK and that's, that's really what we've been looking forward to.
So, so when you say sort of live one health issues on the ground, what practically does that mean day to day for those of us who sort of comprise, you know, the day to day first opinion and referral running of the veterinary interface with the public and with, with agriculture, how does that look? Yeah, sure, I mean, one of the, one of the examples that I quite often use, which I think is a great illustration, actually isn't the UK one, but if you take, if you take control of rabies. By and large, whenever you're looking at a sort of political or strategic level, human health is always, you know, tends to be funded much more readily than, than, livestock health or animal health.
So take that sort of situation, it's almost like having that, whenever we're back at school, you know, you have this sort of balloon debate, where you have to argue why you needed to stay in the balloon. Well, if you, if you bring in a number of different disciplines together and you say, right, we've got 100 doses of rabies vaccine, politician, by and large will vaccinate 100 babies because that makes, you know, good political sense, will vaccinate human health is, you know, first and foremost, and it will win votes. But actually, whenever you put, you know, a doctor, a vet, and an environmental representative in a room to think really at the heart of rabies, you know, it's only when that discussion starts happening that you realise that actually the best way to use those 100 doses of rabies vaccine is to vaccinate 100 street dogs, because that's gonna have a much Greater impact actually in the control of rabies than vaccinating 100 babies.
So that is an example that I use quite a bit, certainly through the the One Health coordination group that we have established at BVA again what we wanted to try and do was bring together the different actors within the UK around One Health, so. Within the UK One Health coordination Group, we've got representation from the British Medical Association, the Royal College of Nursing, we now have the British Dental Association on board. We've got Veterinary Public Health Association, British Veterinary Nursing Association, and then from the, from the environmental side, we've got the Wildlife Trust, we've got the National Trust, and really what we're trying to do is, is look at some of the areas.
So for example, when you say one health, quite often they'll think of of approaches to AMR and and how you know, we need to be joined up, between the different disciplines around AMR. But we're also then looking at things like social prescribing, getting people out into green spaces to improve their well-being and improve environmental well-being and improve, you know, animal well-being by by getting people and their pets out into into green spaces. That whole sort of piece around responsible pet ownership, you know, again, sort of around responsible pet ownership and and the the human-animal bond, we've we've been working.
Quite closely with a guy called Chris Mannion, who is a maxillofacial surgeon, and, and he, he noticed that he was seeing quite a lot of children with facial injuries caused by dog bites, and he, and he, as a, as a medical practitioner, was thinking, well, you know, what, what can I do? You know, I can, I can certainly help by reconstruct reconstructing these children's faces, but actually, where's the root of the problem here? The root of the problem is in that something going wrong in that human-animal bond in the domestic setting.
And so he started working then with local veterinary practises and, and actually understanding the environment. And the environment, of course, isn't just the broad, you know, what we think of in terms of environmental issues. The environment could actually, in, in that particular case, be the domestic environment.
And it's just how, you know, we can go about reducing dog bite injuries of children by taking that sort of transdisciplinary approach. So that's kind of what we're looking at. So it certainly sounds as though, you know, there's sort of multiple cooks from various different avenues involved on all different kind of levels.
And obviously, when you look at management of global disease on such a, you know, a massive scale, does that, you know, what kind of problems. That present to you? Obviously you've all got the same end goal in mind, but presumably there's some real potential conflicts and challenges in trying to develop strategy within that kind of thing.
Absolutely, and I mean, even, you know, at a recent meeting of the One Health coordination group, we had Graham Cook, along with Graham is the deputy chief veterinary officer for the UK, and Graham and his team were able to describe some of the conversation. That happen across Whitehall, around one health and global health issues, because, you know, at the end of the day, certainly everybody is looking for their particular slice of the, you know, the, the budget coming out of number 11, so, but there has to be a sensible approach to that, you know, in the longer term. And as, as you said, Ben, you know, looking at the, at the global level, there are all sorts of challenges, you know.
With access to taking strategic approaches across borders within countries or between countries at a regional or at a continental level. So certainly, you know, control of, of some of these big diseases, you know, takes, takes a really coordinated approach, and that's why we've got organisations, for example, like GalveMed, you know, specifically looking around deployment of veterinary vaccines, but again, Taking a one health approach, bearing in mind where the particular environment, you know, is, is, is going to work best for deployment of particular vaccines. And that environment is both the physical environment, but also the political environment in terms of the countries that that organisations such as GalveMed are working in.
And obviously, you know, in, in recent times there's been quite a, a fair degree, you know, just nationally here with a a degree of political turmoil in recent years, but of course, Now we've got a period of 5 years of, you know, potential stability within government. And, and does that offer a strong opportunity of a time period for something like One Health, or does that bring with itself its own complications? I think you're right.
I, I think there is, it's a bit of both actually. There, I think there, there is an opportunity because the kind of whole sort of one health agenda is and the UK's new relations with, you know. With overseas partners is, you know, is, is, is being renewed, it's being refreshed, as we, we leave the EU.
So there is definitely an opportunity there for us to work with other bodies. And I think there is, there's also an opportunity, I always sort of feel going back to when I was within Department for International Trade. I mean, one of my rules there was very much to kind of sell the UK offer, in agricultural technology or in fair productivity.
But there's a real opportunity for us to sell UK expertise in One Health. We're, we're really fortunate that we've managed to, to land the bid for the 6th World One Health Congress to come to Edinburgh in June of this year, and I would encourage anybody, certainly with an interest in One Health to consider. Registering for that event as a as a delegate.
We're gonna have, literally gonna have the the world's experts in the one health field, all in Edinburgh in in June for, for that event, and, and again, a really good opportunity for us to showcase what we are doing in the in the UK in the in the one health field. So for example, you know, we've got the Soulsby Foundation, so Lord Soulsby was a BVA member. He was a veterinary surgeon, he sat in the House of Lords, and Lord Soulsby was a really sort of firm advocate of One Health approaches and comparative medicine before even One Health was really a, you know, was really on the agenda, was really a thing in its own right with a title, and the Soulsbue Foundation then are going to be supporting one of the, the big keynote presentations that will, will take place at the World One Health Congress.
So there is a really good opportunity there and at this point in time, I think to, to showcase what UK, you know, approaches to One Health are and, and take that, take that out as part of the sort of broader sustainability agenda out to, global partners. Yeah, and, and I think, you know, there's obviously a lot going on, as you say, sort of across various different professions, but I think, you know, when we look at the potential of, of the veterinary profession, and obviously the BVA is very much our political. Spearhead if you like within the UK in terms of the One Health coordination group within the UK, what, what are the BVA's thought processes behind sort of creating that?
Well, it actually came out of one of the, it was sort of one of the actions really that came out from, from Vet Futures. So most people are probably aware, you know, the Vet Futures initiative was established between BVA and RCVS to to look at what the veterinary profession might look like by 2030, and, and put a number of of key. Sort of pillars in place to help move those structures forward and one of those was the formation of the One Health coordination Group, because that was, that sort of transdisciplinary aspect was something that there was, there was definitely a vision, of creating for it to be sort of fairly practical, and then to pull together some of the, you know, the key ideas that were coming out of that group.
Again, you're, you're probably aware that certainly on One Health Day last year we launched the UK one. Health in Action report that helped just to provide a number of almost case studies around some key themes around mental health and well-being, antimicrobial resistance, zoonosis, non-communicable diseases, environment and climate change, and injuries, and those six themes then sort of created the basis of, of that, you know, those case studies in the One Health and Action report. We've subsequently then had the opportunity to take that report and present it to the Federation of Veterinarians in Europe.
So FEE certainly have been looking at, you know, almost a kind of vet Futures Europe type initiative, and as part of that, they've been really interested then in our work around One Health as well. So again, it's just those taking those opportunities to really showcase, you know, where One Health sort of fits in. I also had the opportunity to, you know, I mentioned Graham Cook earlier on, but both Graham and Christine Middlemas, the UK CVO.
Invited me to speak at a, at an event linked to the OIE general session in Paris last year, which was a real showcase for UK One Health Science, and we had the whole DEFRA family, so including APHA, Food Standards Agency, CFAS on the aquaculture side, and a veterinary medicines director and a number of other UK science bodies that were presenting some of their Capability in that one health space. So I think, you know, we, we've got a lot to be proud of. Vets very much kind of need to be involved in that and, and there's certainly some fantastic and, and really exciting opportunities actually in that whole sphere now.
Yeah, and something that's really interesting that resonates there, Simon, is that, you know, you make mention of vets getting involved with these side of things. Now to to most people in first opinion practitioners, these sorts of, you know, high levels. Strategy plans and talk of, you know, international government involvement in things almost seems so far disjointed from our day to day life in practise.
Is there any way as sort of people in general practise that we could get more involved and, and, you know, disseminate more of this information about One Health? Yeah, I, I think, I mean a really useful starting point I think is the One Health and Action report which, you know, can be downloaded from the, from the BVA website. If you go to www.bva.co.uk/Ohealthreport, it'll take you, take you straight to it.
And I think when, when you read some of those case studies, that, I mean this is really what it was about. There is that kind of whole big government international sort of picture to it, but we were really keen with the One Health coordination group to look at some of these projects on the ground. So actually getting involved with a local conservation group that is taking groups of, of, you know, dog walkers out, you know, around the countryside, you know, getting involved with doing talks.
We've got a a webinar, which Webinarett is going to be very kindly hosting for us coming up soon. By Deborah Thompson, which is going to be looking at one health and education and and how we can actually communicate One Health principles to, to school children. Those are the kind of things when vets are quite often called in to, you know, to do some careers and talks and things like that.
There's a there's a really good opportunity there just to embed a little bit of one health in some of those conversations as well. But actually, you know, we, we Use this title One Health, you know, I, once upon a time, I was, I was a veterinary practitioner in general practise, and, you know, what vets are doing in general practise is one health. They are in an environment and, you know, with people and, and their animals, whether that's farm animal practise or equine or zoo practise or companion animal practise, it is very much about people, animals, and the environment.
And actually, a lot of what we do, a lot of the time as vets in general practise is, you know, it is one health and action. You know, taking that time to listen to a client, you know, whose only company is their pet cat or their pet dog, is very much, you know, that is one health, that sort of, human-animal bond is, is, is something that, that we are intricately involved with on a day to day basis. So I wouldn't get too hung up on the label one health because I think we all do it.
Yeah, and I think it's sort of looking at it, you know, on, on the individual, on the local, and then on the national, international and even global scale, you know, Our our touch point with everybody is, is, you know, is one health to some extent, as you rightly point out. When we, when we think about one health and sort of, you know, obviously very in vogue at the moment is this topic of sustainability across, you know, across the profession and across the wider world. Really, you know, is there any crossover between one health and and sustainability across the profession?
Yeah, so I guess the way I sort of think about it in in my mind is there's an intricate link between what we mean by one health and what we mean by sustainability. Quite often when we're thinking about the term sustainability, we're we're thinking about the environmental impact of, of what people and animals are, you know, are doing to the planet. But actually, if you want to take that as the sort of movement, the direction of travel, the particular theme, the particular challenge that we're we're looking at, we're taking a one health approach to it, so the one health bit is very much the transdisciplinary approach.
We as vets cannot make the planet more sustainable by ourselves, but we can certainly play a really important part. And whether that is about educating our companion animal clients about responsible pet ownership, or whether it is about working with our, you know, with our farmers to, to make their businesses more productive, yet maintaining the highest levels of animal welfare, you know, looking at at aspects of regenerative agriculture and and how they are approaching biodiversity. I, I live in rural County Down in Northern Ireland and, and, you know, we have a new agriculture.
Who is very much kind of looking at the biodiversity of hedgerows and how we can improve that and being part of things like health and harmony around the whole concept of public money for public goods, and it is that, it's that whole sort of piece around farmers being custodians of the countryside and, and the role that we as vets play in working alongside them. So, I, I think, I think they are very much linked, but it's the one health approach, it's, it's. It's, you know, vets, farmers, medics, you know, human health and well-being people working alongside environmental organisations, you know, even the, you know, we've got the, the British Bee Veterinary Association now doing some fantastic work at looking at, you know, the health of our honeybees and things like that.
So it's getting those conversations going, and certainly organisations and, and sort of platforms, communities like that Sustain, which, you know, we're involved with as, as BVA. Is providing a touch point for some of those conversations to take place. I think we're never always gonna be on the same page as, as, you know, as everyone else on every single thing.
And I think the whole sort of piece around livestock, and, and sustainability of livestock agriculture is, is a good example of that at the minute. But for us as vets, we've got a really good opportunity to, to be part of those conversations going forward. And I think probably, probably finally Simon, I think one of the things that I find really exciting with the various conversations I'm having with people at the moment is all the different avenues that people are involved with in life and across the profession at this moment.
And one thing that I specifically want to ask you is what three things particularly excite you about one health and your involvement in that particular field moving forwards? Well, I mean, you want me to at least mention aquaculture, so I get, I mean, I think aquaculture, the sustainability of the aquaculture industry is a is a really good example. Of where we, you know, we need to, sort of push forward.
You know, we've got, again, we've got some world-class aquaculture in the, in the UK, but it's, it's not without it's, it has been tagged with, you know, environmental issues in the past. Certainly there's a huge drive forwards at the minute and in. Feeding 9.8 billion people by 2050, and certainly aquaculture is a part to play in that conversation as well.
So I think there's a, there's definitely a one health piece there because the rural communities are involved in aquaculture, and the, the types of remote environments in parts of Scotland and the west of Ireland. There are huge opportunities there. So I would, I would mention that kind of as a sort of whole sort of piece around aquaculture.
Secondly, I suppose there's, there is a real opportunity going forwards around health and harmony and, you know, the public money for public good. Whatever replacement for cap is a, you know, is going to, I think is, is really going to help. Drive a one health approach, a one agriculture approach if you like, you know, in terms of our agricultural sustainability, and I think probably the last big theme is, is probably around people's relationships with their companion animals.
There, there are all sorts of questions being asked about, you know, how, you know, is there a conflict there between pet. Ownership and, you know, and, and sustainability, and it is, it's, it's not necessarily just about carbon, you know, or about climate change, but it's getting those balances right off the social and well human well-being aspects of pet ownership alongside, you know, some of, some of the other aspects of pet ownership as well, so. Yeah, I don't know if that answers your question or not, but I think, I think the point is that One Health is about creating conversations, across, across different disciplines, and those conversations need to happen going forward.
I think that's a fantastic answer, and I think, you know, that's a perfect way for us to, to sort of wrap up this particular episode, Simon. So I just want to thank you very, very much, and I think, you know, certainly for me the two, take home points for people, is to make sure that you put the 3rd of November into your diaries. Which is World One Health Day, and then we've got the 6th World One Health Congress.
So anybody who fancies a little jaunt up to Edinburgh, maybe to take in a few of the sites before you get ready to go up there for the summer of comedy, then, then definitely get yourselves up there in in June, and, and see what what's on offer there. So, Simon, thank you very much for giving your time up to join us this today, and I shall look forward to seeing what's going on in one health in the months, weeks and years to come. Thanks for joining us for today's episode of Vet Chat.
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