Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Vet Chat. Today we are carrying on with our menopause awareness celebrations, and I'm delighted to be joined by Chris Wilson from Vets Now. And today we're gonna be discussing why menopause matters and why every workplace should care.
So welcome, Chris, thank you for joining us. No worries, thanks for having me. It's really exciting.
Before we get started, let me introduce our guest today. So Chris is people services advisor looking after absence and wellbeing at Vets now, the leading provider of emergency veterinary care in the UK. With over a decade of HR experience in the financial and telecommunications sector, Chris joined Vets Now in August 2020 during the COVID pandemic.
Specialising in mental health and employee engagement, Chris ensures that Vets Now has the relevant support in place for its 1700 employees and acts as a point of contact for line managers to support their teams as best as possible. He's passionate about diversity and inclusion and advocates the importance of promoting a culture of health and wellbeing, fostering a better working environment for colleagues, but also understanding that happier healthier workforces makes veterinary profession thrive. He's been at the forefront of several initiatives to support Vets Now teams, including providing access to mental health support through Simply Health, the benefits platform which connects employees to financial support and the menopauses support package, which FET's now launched in 2022.
So welcome Chris. Hello, lovely to have you here today. Hello.
Yeah, it's great. It's great. First podcast, so very exciting, very exciting.
Yeah. Oh well, thank you for doing it with us. No worries, no worries.
It's an important topic, so glad to chat about. Yeah, absolutely. So do you want to start just by telling us a little bit about your role at vets now and particularly your interest in the menopause in the workplace, please.
Yeah, absolutely, so like you said, I'm a people services advisor or HR advisor, you know, if you want, you know, for another way of putting it, and I look after all of absence and wellbeing for vets now, so. That can be from the initial point where an employee goes off absent, linking them with the line manager to look at what support do they need from a workplace perspective to either help them back into work, or other issues and concerns that need to address and work first off to get them back, and then the well-being part is relatively new into my role. I've always had a bit of a touch in over the past 3 years since I've been a vets now, but it's became a big.
Part of my role in the past few months and it's really looking at what initiatives and supports that we have available for our staff to make our lives as comfortable as possible whilst they're at work, and making sure that they also have the resources available to do the self-care piece as well when it comes to their own well-being. There needs to be that sort of joint approach, to make sure that they're getting as much as they can for their own health in that regard. But moving on to sort of the, the, my interest in the menopause in the workplace, it's.
With our staff are predominantly female, I think we've got roughly around an 88% female workforce. So that in and of itself is just a reason to, obviously focus on that. It's a topic that's going to affect all women in some degree, in some way, shape, or form.
So making sure that they have the resources were available for their own information and understanding is definitely key to making sure that they're happy and engaged. And to making sure that the managers have the information that they need in order to hold those conversations and. Reduce that stigma around menopause that can still be there unfortunately and allow employees just to feel safe and having that in those discussions with with whoever the manager is, I suppose, regardless of level, etc.
So those are being my interests and is really making sure that we have that two pronged approach and making sure that employees can do their own things for self-care in regards to the menopause, you know, information resources, etc. And our managers are also equipped to properly give support that's. Yeah, brilliant, fantastic.
And when you launched the support package in last year in 2022, have you found that that's had any positive impacts? Have you noticed like a big difference since that's been brought in? Absolutely, it was our previous colleagues no longer worked with Bets now, and she was a massive champion of the menopause support package that we're looking to put in place, and that formed part of the well-being strategy group that we also run at Bes now.
And with that, we've seen a great response from our colleagues with the national focus group that we'd set up, really making sure that when we were looking at menopause and what support we wanted to put in place, it was what employees wanted and needed, and it wasn't something that we thought that they might need. So it was getting that information from them directly, and the response to that focus group was outstanding. I can't put it any other way.
The response we had was great. The numbers of people that were looking to join and contribute their ideas was fantastic. And then since then the response that we've seen to the PEPA, which is one of the big parts of the support package that we use was astronomical.
I think, looking at the percentage of people that we targeted initially, we were looking at, I think we ended up being. 241% more than the target that we had initially put out. And the most recent stats that we have is that we're actually at 412% of our targeted range from that initial launch.
So the response that we've seen to that app and the feedback that we've gotten from it has been. Fantastic. It's, it's absolutely great and The support that Pepe can give, and I know probably talk about that a little bit later, but the support that they can give is just fantastic.
It's an invaluable service that I can encourage every single employer that you will find a benefit from it regardless of your demographic and work. It makes sense to look at different supports in that regard. Yeah.
Yeah, fantastic. That sounds incredible. Well done for not only doing that but for getting such great engagement.
It's absolutely. And I guess 88% female workforce. You know, you would, you know, you'd really hope that you'd have a really big impact like that.
Absolutely, yeah, it wasn't, we definitely hope that there'd be a good response, but the response we got was, was not anticipated. It's probably the way to put it. We thought it would take a little bit, for lack of a better term, more work from an awareness perspective, but our guys were just so sold on that straight away, immediately wanted the service.
And yeah, it's been a fantastic since then, absolutely. Brilliant. Have you noticed any sort of direct link with productivity in the workplace since having launched the menopause related, you know, the menopause content to everybody.
Yeah, it can be hard to quantify that in some, in some regards. However, we definitely have seen, areas with productivity has been increased. One of the areas of the support packages is understandably all our face and nurses have to be a particular scrubs.
And they're not always the comfiest and most. Helpful when someone's going through certain menopause symptoms, let's just sort of leave it in that regard, and being able to have that as an option has meant that our staff are feeling much more comfortable when they're doing their role. They're able to even just form that forming pot flushes is obviously a very common symptom of the menopause, not the only one, but.
And being able to have that temperature regulation whilst on shift and that emergency environment, it means that they're not having to stop as much as they need to. They're able to continue with the work a little bit longer while still having that ability to take breaks, etc. When you need to, if that's something that's required.
So definitely from that regard, we've seen a positive response in regards to that, yeah. Brilliant. Oh, that's fantastic.
Is, if there's anybody sort of listening who would love to, you know, take some steps in their workplace, you know, to create a more supportive and inclusive environment. Have you got any tips and what people could do around, you know, obviously the scrubs is a great idea. Is there any other sort of tips that you'd have that you could share?
Yeah, I think the first thing is. Just be open and honest with your staff. If you haven't focused on menopause up until now, OK, you haven't done that.
Admit that maybe it's been an oversight on your part, but give the promises of what you're looking to do going forward and reach out to your staff about it. Don't assume that you know what the best thing to do is. Your staff knows what's best for them, and it makes sense to reach out to them, get their understanding, and it also shows that you're looking to do things in the right way, not just for, a tick box exercise, if you know what I'm trying to say, but some companies can sort of fall into that chip off.
So that's my first piece of advice would be to speak to your staff and get that right. And the second part is you're not going to be an expert on menopause unless you're a dedicated company that probably is about menopause or you have medical experts. So reach out to people who are the experts and get the support from them.
How do they roll that out? What have they done with other organisations that's worked particularly well in the end demographic, etc. And how can you adapt that to your own workforce, .
Because trying to Trying to get managers to become experts on every single medical condition that someone could come up against as a, as a leading possibility, and it's not something that we would be required for them to do. So having somebody that they can go right, we can get the basics right and work, but for long term consistent support, let's reach out to the experts and see what we can do in the workplace and what they can do for you outside of work. So it's not being a shame to say, we don't know what we're doing, but we're going to find out.
That's fine to say, it's making sure that you're just taking the right steps and making that a priority, first and foremost. Yeah. Yeah, brilliant.
No, that's great advice, Chris. Thank you. I think as well as part of this menopause awareness series we spoke to, Charlotte and Lindsay from the BVNA at the start of the week.
And, Lindsay was sharing some really good advice about what they're doing in practise. And it's just little things and it's making and it's talking and it's being honest and open and having these conversations and, you know, to your point, nobody's an expert, but if you, if you just try little things, you know, it can have a big impact. Yeah, absolutely.
There's not got to be, it's not gonna massive gestures that need to be made. It's just having those small conversations to get. People thinking about it, talking about it, and it just that initial part will remove that stigma so much that we will have employees come to us and they say, I am struggling with these symptoms rather than feeling as though they've got to mask it under different reasons, it allows us to go, right, you know, this, this could be similar symptoms to that, having the conversation about going to their GP, giving them the advice and signposting them to Pepe.
Those don't sound big, but it's a massive thing for that person to feel listened to, and that's the biggest part is not ignoring it, which I think, at least from the information I've been given from the women I've known who's been through it, it can be easily ignored or maybe passed off as something else, but actually these are menopausal symptoms that need to be addressed. So we are not the experts, the employee knows their health, listen to them and work with them. Yeah, no, that's brilliant, thank you.
And what about sort of from a male perspective because obviously most of the workforce and vets now are female, but obviously there's still, you know, lots of males working there. And do you have any advice for them around how can they support with these conversations as well because it can be more difficult. For them to understand and as people who mean it will never go through it.
Yeah, absolutely. So you're right. Vets now is, is a female driven sort of organisation just in general.
We've got our board members board, sorry, members are majorly female, like I said earlier, about an 8% sort of female workforce. It's a fantastic company and, to see that contrast to your normal company, let's just say for example, it's really nice to have that female driven one, and. I think the biggest advice for from a male perspective is whilst you may not be directly impacted with the menopausal symptoms, you will know someone who goes through menopause or has been through menopause in some way, shape or form, so.
Would you want to see your mother, your daughter, sister, who would be struggle with that? No, you absolutely wouldn't. So you wouldn't want your staff to struggle in that sense either.
And again, it's just having conversations. It's even admitting up front and saying, look, I may not be an expert in what you're about to talk to me about, but I am more than happy to listen to what you've got to say and then go away and speak to and find out whatever I need to. You're on a learning journey just as much as the employee will also be on that learning journey.
So it's just about listening, being understanding to what they're saying, and treating it like any other health condition. I always sort of look at it if you want to, if you want to talk about sort of female specific, areas that you need to support with pregnancy, for example, not everyone's going to get pregnant or have to go through the same pregnancy sort of process. However, they'll all be affected by it in some way.
So you have a policy there to make sure that we support our pregnant employees. Why wouldn't we do that for menopause as well? It's the exact same scenario.
Not everyone's going to be impacted by it in the same way, but they're all going to be impacted by it in some way. So it's making sure that, one, you're just open, honest, understanding, and just transparent. Don't pretend that you need to know everything because you don't.
There is no expectation from anyone that you know everything. But there is an expectation that you will support your staff, and that's the biggest thing, as long as you're trying to get that tone and messaging right. It'll come across the right way.
Don't be worried about saying the wrong thing. Explain yourself to the person that's talking to you. Explain the points that you're trying to get across, and if you're really, really unsure on what to do, link them with your HR, department or your health and safety department, who should definitely have a little bit more awareness, but if not, Then it raises that point of why don't we have it, and it should then lead to further conversations on training, etc.
Etc. In that regard. So yeah, that's, so that was a long answer to what you just said, but really it's just have the conversation, don't go and worried or panicked and just actively listen, listen to, listen, don't listen to respond is always what I say.
You're listening to make sure you're hearing what they're saying. Brilliant. Did you know the webinar that Virtual Veterinary Congress is back for 2024.
Starting on the 5th of February, we have 10 hours of continuing education with speakers such as Sarah Heath, John Chisy, and Samantha Kyler, and many, many more. We'd love to see you there. If you'd like to get involved again this year, or if you'd like to join us for the day next time, please click the link in the description below to find out more.
What what sort of motivated you to get involved and be such an advocate for the menopause, if you don't mind me asking? Yeah, so it's sort of twofold in that regard. The first one is my mum had a terrible time, when she went to do menopause.
She . Went to different medications with her GP. She would conscious just get knocked back and told, no, there's nothing wrong, and I remember mom struggling with intense pain as, as part of our menopause for quite a lot of years to the point that really restricted her doing anything, she lived in the house for, A good 5-6 years with the exception of work, and my mom's one of those people that if she has to work, she will do it regardless.
She could be at death's door and she will still go to her work, to her own fault. It's a good thing and a bad thing that she has, but seeing my mom go through that in our younger, younger years, I've seen the impact it had on her overall, one from a mobility and even just like an exercise perspective, she used to enjoy going to like keep that classes, etc. That all stopped because she couldn't cope with the pain.
She then went on work, she was doing well but she would always come home in terrible pain, and that would impact her for that full night, she would need to just, you know, sit, do nothing, etc. And then. From a mental health perspective, it really, really affected her because it impacted her confidence.
I was supposed to an extent it made her feel like she was going crazy because she felt that something was happening, but the response that she was getting from her GP was, no, it's not that, or it can't be that yet type thing. How this person knows their health. So the first part is see mom go through that.
I do not want to see any other person ever have to go through that. And secondly, it's just the right thing to do. There's, there doesn't need to be more of a reason than that.
It's something that affects 50% of the population in the world, and like I say, in some way, shape or form in varying degrees. Why would you want, wouldn't you sort of want to help somebody that maybe is suffering with those symptoms, and as a business, if we don't invest in our staff, why should our staff invest in us is really the question that I have. And that is looking after them as much as possible.
So yeah, there's definitely been a personal impact on myself from regards to my family, but Personally, I just think it's the right thing to do, so we should be focused on it regardless of what's happening. Mhm. Yeah.
And do you think, obviously, the veterinary profession as a whole is very female and you know we've touched on that already and we have this huge retention problem right now in the veterinary profession as well. Do you think in your personal opinion if we Address the menopause better as a whole profession we'd have less of a problem with retaining staff. Absolutely, yeah, I mean, one of the biggest sort of growing or fastest sort of growing demographics just now is women over 50, and with that age range, they would very likely be experiencing some symptoms or have experienced some symptoms of menopause at that point, and it's estimated that around.
900,000 women have left their jobs due to menopause in the UK. So whilst we can't apply that full number to the veterinary industry, a, a significant proportion of it will be because as you've said, we're a very female drug driven, . Refreshing.
Thank you. That word went right out of my head there and I was just sitting panicking, so yeah, the profession it's, it's very female driven. So even take 10% of that, for example, and add that into the veterinary industry, there's 90,000 employees that we've we've lost, due to that, and that's a massive number.
And with that demographic growing and growing and growing. It's only going to get better from there. So if we put those resources in from the start and do it more as a proactive approach rather than a reactive approach, approach, sorry, what we'll see is, is that women who do join, when in the younger years when they aren't impacted by menopause, when they do continue with us, if they see that support being there and spoken about, they'll have a sense of, you know, this company does look after me.
They, they understand that I grow and I change as, as, as life goes on. I want to stay here to get that support. So, yeah, absolutely ignoring menopause just now, you're just throwing money down the drain.
It's probably the easiest way to see it. And it might seem like there's a big investment needs at the start, but if you calculate the and looking from a purely commercial perspective, calculate the retraining costs, the recruitment costs, etc. That all comes with recruiting somebody that does leave.
You're well going to outweigh that if you just look to support. And the menopause and support those employees that need it. So absolutely I see that we have a lot of companies are missing a massive trip there.
I'm not supporting them and I'd even go as far as to say I know we're talking about the vetting profession, but further than that, there's absolutely other professions that could benefit from just supporting it. Absolutely, yeah. Totally agree, it's a really good point you make as well, you know, people in practise might think we don't have the financial, you know, capabilities to support this right now, but if people are women at such losing, leaving the profession at such an alarming rate, you know, the recruitment costs, you know, it all, we need to start being more proactive rather than reactive.
Yes, and that's the biggest challenges I think so, so often just now companies are reactive to changes with. You know, climate, etc. There's, there's a lot that you need to act on, but these are, I think basics are absolutely key to get right, and.
Yeah, yeah, the initial cost might seem, wow, that's large, but if you do sit up and tally X, Y, and Z, how much is that going to save us in the year, you'll probably end up more than balancing out and potentially having more money to play with. And removing the commercial aspect. Imagine the years of experience that we lose based on that.
Those women have probably worked for us for. You know, a considerable length of time regardless of how long that is, they've went through that training, they've brought years of experience with them. They're taking that away and our business loses out on that.
Why would we want to lose that? It's so invaluable because. Whilst yes, we can sit in the support office and and the board do their decisions, etc.
Without the staff in the clinic, we don't have them, we don't have a business. So investing in them, again, it's just the right thing to do because you're losing so much if you don't. Yeah, absolutely.
So looking forward, what do you hope to see in terms of menopause awareness and support in the years to come in the veterinary profession? So I really hope that companies are take a little bit from our lead. I'm not saying that we're the only company doing anything, but developing a really good support package for the staff who can access that at any point, providing robust manager training so that when they're having to have those conversations, they're not having that nervousness that comes with it.
I. I do not want to be a manager because I can't imagine the strength and stuff that comes with certain conversations that that that you're put in those situations and. If we don't have those available for our staff, they're going to panic and there's another area where you could then lose out because they're not feeling supported by their company.
So my biggest thing is really making is hoping that all companies take a lead from this, create a robust support package, and ensuring that it works for their staff, their demographic, and looking at. Continually reviewing it, not just saying that once it's in, it's fit for purpose and it's fit for purpose forever. It's continually reviewing the offering and as that's still in line with what your company needs or have you progressed to a point where, you know, menopause is handled really, really well at your work and it's not impacting staff as much as it was.
They've got those support areas in place. Is there something more that we need to do now and look at additional support, longer, longer term support, whatever that may look like, I'm hoping that it's more spoken about. We remove that stigma in in regards to it.
And . Yeah, that's really, that's the point is just listening to your staff and really taking on board that approach. You shouldn't be treating menopause.
I'd hope that we get to a point where we don't have to treat meno menopause as its own standalone issue, if you know what I'm trying to say. It's someone's health. So why are we needing to, we need just menopause support.
What we need is robust health support that also includes menopause. So that that's one way of breaking down that stigma that's attached to it, because if you've got an employee who says, I've got a bit of a health issue, or I've got a bit of a menopause issue. You're, you're sort of almost singing it out in that sense because you're out directly talking about menopause, which is great.
It's great to get that chatting about, but it should just be a normal health condition like everything else is. It's a very similar sort of propositions what what you do with mental health. It was very much treated as its own standalone thing, totally different from overall health and well-being.
No, that should be included. So why isn't menopause, and that's where I'd like to be is that it's. For lack of a better term, and it might not sound too great, it, it's just another health condition that doesn't cause that worry in people when it's mentioned, you know, it's just, right, OK, let's see what we can do.
Yeah. Brilliant, and if if our listeners now are feeling like really inspired, they really want to get started with this, do you have any tips where people should start, you know, to really sort of contribute towards positive change in their practises? Yeah, I think from a business perspective, if people are wanting to do that, it's first off creating policies and procedures.
Those are the first things that need to be in place because that shows your commitment to that. You hold yourself accountable and you also hold your other members of staff accountable too to make sure that that change is happening. If you're looking to do it sort of on an individual level though, and if maybe your company isn't doing anything, from that regard, it's taking it to either your line manager or board level and saying look.
Just something that we're missing out on. We've tried a little bit about the stats today, and those are very easily found online, and I would encourage everyone to do a little bit of research about that impact, and if they need a business case, so to say, for why they should invest in menopause. The business case is there, so it's really challenging in that regard.
If it's from an individual perspective and what you want to do from yourself or with your family, if you're a male is speaking to the people who are impacted by it and understanding how it impacts them. And putting yourself in their shoes, how is that impacting them day to day? And that's probably going to change your approach.
And also just open up that relationship a little bit where your wife, sister, friends, whoever it might be, can just feel comfortable to have that conversation and go, God, I'm really struggling with X today, and this is what's happening. And then if it's something for yourself, the first thing I would do is, is, . Check and see what's available locally, support groups, etc.
Because that's a great thing is having some of people that you know that you can talk to and get that support from, and also educating the people around you, don't feel ashamed to talk about it because you shouldn't. It's not something that anyone should feel ashamed about because. It affects all women in some way, shape, or form.
I feel like I'm just repeating myself where you're probably gonna put a par on this or it would have been similar, but talk about it. Don't, you shouldn't feel that way or feel ashamed about what's going on. It's part of life, and we will, people should respect that.
And I always say that your health comes first, and that also includes menopause as well. If people aren't willing to listen or talk about that, you need to make sure that you're still getting a chance to talk about what you need to and get that support that you need. So yeah, so a few different angles that I came from that there, but I think definitely different ways in which you can do things, but.
It's just allowing yourself to be you and not being ashamed of that. And that's really a lesson that everyone could learn from, to be honest, but absolutely a key part is just letting yourself feel how you feel, yeah. I think that's a wonderful place to end, Chris.
Thank you. Thank you so much. That was brilliant advice.
And you never would have thought that was your first podcast. You were fantastic. So thank you so much.
and if anybody wants to sort of get in touch with you or, you know, might want, they might have some questions they want answering, is there a, a best way for people. People to contact you on LinkedIn or anything like that? Yeah, so on LinkedIn would be great.
That's probably the best place to get me the only social media I have actually. I don't, I don't have any other ones. So yeah, get me on LinkedIn, and I'm happy to chat to anybody about anything whatsoever regarding menopause or well-being just in general, but yeah, if you could contact me on there, I'm more than happy to talk to anybody.
Ah, brilliant. That's great, Chris. Thank you so so much.
No, thanks for having me again. OK, thanks a lot. See you soon.
Bye.
