Hello everybody. Thank you so much for joining us for today's episode of vet chat. Today we are delighted to be joined by Melissa Donald.

Melissa is a Glasgow vet school graduate with over 25 years' experience in opinion practise. Melissa has been a veterinary non-executive director on the board of the Red and Farm Assurance Scheme for the past 4 years and a trustee of the Scottish SPCA. She has been president of the Scottish branch of the BBA, and she currently chairs the RCVS Standards Committee, is an elected member of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons Council and a junior vice president of the RCVS.

In her spare time, she likes to, run and spin, cooking and knitting as well as being a wife, a mother, a grandmother, and a breeder of Ford terriers. Melissa, hello, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Hi and thanks for inviting me. Oh, no problem at all. So today we're gonna, discuss menopause.

So it's something that, you know, I personally have never really had much conversation around and I've never really, you know, discussed it with anybody in, in much detail. So I'm really looking forward to, you know, getting your perspectives on things and hopefully learning a lot as well. Yeah, I, it was, I, I was very much like you.

I'd never really had much experience or talked about it or anything until it hit me, so I think this is a great opportunity. Brilliant. It was interesting.

I was having a little look around, you know, when, I knew that we were gonna be having, this conversation, and, I, I pulled up a few little, facts. So one of which was, you know, women can start their menopause really early, but the average age is around about 51. It tends to last 4 to 5 years and 80% of women suffer not only with, physical, but also mental symptoms as well.

Is that something, is that similar with your experiences that you've had, and the other, the other main fact, don't forget, is that 50% of the population will have had or will experience it. Yeah. No, absolutely.

I mean, would you mind Melissa, telling us a little bit about your experience with menopause? Yeah, absolutely. As I said, you know, it was not something talked about.

My mum maybe had the odd hot flush which we joked about, we had the odd client came in moaning about it, but that really was about as much as I, I had been experiencing and then . Basically I was in my late 40s and my period started mucking about and then the odd sweats came and then boy did the sweats come. It wasn't just, you know, at night, although that was bad enough.

You learn to lie with your leg in under the bed or under the duvet, you learn to have your leg over the duvet and your poor partner doesn't know what's hit them. But so I also had loads and loads of sweats and flushes through the day and you could literally see them from my fingertips and my toes creeping up my body. So if I was wearing like surgical gloves, you could see the sweat gathering underneath it and you know, my nurses were super, they realised what was happening.

But yeah, and you don't sleep and then you have brain fog, so you think you're going crazy, but what I didn't realise with myself was the was the mental side effects and the anxiety and depression and just . Which goes with the fog, how it, it really did affect me. So yeah, it was, it was horrific.

Yeah. And I guess, you know, if you're, if you're not sleeping, you know, at any point in your life, it's just horrendous, isn't it? You just, it really does affect your ability, you know, when, when you're at work and, you know, and just your mood in general.

Did did you feel like it had an impact on your career and your working life? Yeah, it really, it really did. Your, your mood swings, you didn't know if they were the, the, the menopause or whether it was a lack of sleep or whether you, you having PMT or a mixture of all three.

But what, what, it did happen, I didn't actually realise how much of an effect it had on my career until I had left clinical practise. And when I look back with a slightly clearer head, I then see the anxiety I was a pretty calm and cool person in, in the practise, and all of a sudden when things weren't going right, I'd be outside and ringing my partner for calming down. I never used to do that.

And ultimately the, the pressure of work and the menopause, was one of the major factors that made us sell up and, and leave clinical work. So yeah, big effect. Wow, I mean, did you, I know some people, you know, they find that the first year tends to be worse.

Did, did you find that or was it quite, you know, consistent? No, I would say it got steadily worse over a couple of years, but no two people are alike, and so you have, you know, what my experience was, we may have some common factors, but other people maybe weren't running a business as well and so it's all very, very different, how, how you're exposed to it. So I would say mine gradually got worse and then once some of the factors were were controlled.

Got better, they got better again, although I still have flushes now and night sweats and I still don't sleep and you know, but how, how much do we know is just, is just the menopause and how much is maybe another underlying condition that you need to get checked out? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, did it ever get to the point, you know, where you felt like you, you wanted to give up work, like you just couldn't, you know, physically and mentally manage it, manage it all?

Yes, definitely. Yeah, that was one of the reasons we sold up. It's just I couldn't cope anymore.

I, I put it down at the time to just being burnt out, but as I say, when I, when I look back, I'm pretty sure 80% will be from the menopause. And if I hadn't had been going through that, I probably would have been able to keep going for longer. Yeah, wow.

OK. I mean, do you think do you have any sort of advice that you, you could give people who are maybe, you know, feeling some things now at the moment and then maybe, you know, confusing it with, with other things and actually it could be linked to all, you know, the menopause. Yeah, I think you've got to work with your doctor.

There are some doctors who are absolutely useless at it, but just as many are very good at dealing with menopause. So you've got to work with, if not, A doctor then move to a different doctor in the practise or then even go to some of the specialist menopause places, insist they, they check you out with it and, and make sure they do check that there's no other underlying conditions because some of the like thyroid disease, some of the, the symptoms with other autoimmune or hormonal imbalances are very, very similar, so it's really important not to get hung up. And another bit of advice which I, I have no connection to this, is what Davina McCall's programme called Sex Myths and the Menopause, because that was eye opening and especially about the HRT how it basically hoodwinked so many of my generation to being very afraid of it and not using it, and the actual statistics about it.

And if it is appropriate and you are being recommended, I wish I had done. Because once you're too far down the line, it doesn't help. So I would definitely do that and talk about it.

We, us women, we're good at talking. Let's talk about the subject, then we have shared experience and actually that, you know, shares the load as well. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, it's funny, you know, I was saying earlier, my, me and my mom are super close and, you know, we always have been, but it's one of those things that we just never really seem to talk about. And I don't really know why, but it just isn't something that, you know, I've ever asked her about she's ever really opened up to me about. So yeah, I think, you know, the more you can talk about these things, hopefully the more, you know, awareness there is and the more help people can get.

Definitely. I did see, last week, I think it was in the News that ASOS have just introduced paid leave for staff experience in menopause and and you know, fertility or pregnancy loss, you know, they're going through things like that. So I think it's fantastic, isn't it, that there's so much more awareness around it now than there was previously, but you know still an awful lot to do.

Yeah, definitely, you know, there's so many things by having the conversation in your workplace, but there's small little things like having being the flexibility breaks, having fans close to you, alternative ways of working so that you have. Got to be face to face and dripping wet with your client. And, and again, more breaks because you don't know, some, some of us were having like these sweats like 2030 times a day.

That's a lot of times you need to cool off and focus and, and reconcentrate. But yeah, I totally agree. There's so much we can do, but as I say, everyone is very different and, and you haven't got two people alike.

I think as well, you know, it's, it's being able to communicate, isn't it, with your manager at work, you know, how you're feeling and so that they can then give you that support. Yeah, and your team and your team as well, because it's then it affects as well because if it's all very well, your, your managers sort of moving you onto or having extra breaks, but then the extra work falls on the rest of the team. So you've got to work together there's times the rest of the team need breaks or whatever, so you've all got to work as one really to help get the maximise out of everybody on in the workplace.

Yeah, absolutely. So not only, you know, raising awareness of the symptoms and things within teams, but also, you know, being able to speak out and speak to people about it. Yeah.

Yeah. OK, brilliant. Is there any other sort of tips that you would have for people in in practise who are mainly, you know, mainly going through it at the moment or you know, feeling like they needed some support.

Yeah, apart from the communication, which is basically unless people know what you're going through, how can they help? So that's the first thing. But a really practical thing, lots of different light layers, because you'll go from being really hot to really cold very quickly, things that dry fast like the sports tops.

I know it sounds silly. I wore shorts a lot of the time, it's smart shorts, but it allows your legs to cool much quicker. And, and silly things like that can help.

So you maybe don't like wearing shorts and, and maybe that's why many women who are older than me wore skirts a lot more to keep themselves cooler, who knows? But I, I found that I wear shorts or crop trousers, and let's face it, O scrubs are wonderful for this. They, they manage to keep you very cool all the time.

And having stuff to change into and to freshen, wipes to freshen yourself up because those. That's the physical things. The, the brain fog and the, and the other mental things.

Everyone has got to work out their own, personal ways of solving that, because there isn't one size fits all for that. But they're all good life skills. If you can work out how to control your breathing, if you get anxiety and everything like that, then, then that'll stand you in good stead whenever it happens.

Yeah, brilliant. No, that all sounds, that all sounds great. And do you think there's anything that you know, teams or employees can do at the workplace in order to make, you know, women feel more supportive if they are going through, you know, the menopause at the moment.

Just not be afraid of bringing it up and normalising it. Just like if you had a migraine, you wouldn't suffer that in silence. So if you're suffering in the menopause, bring it up, and, and even if you ask your coworkers, is this something be because some people will be more touched.

But even having a poster up about it on the, you know, on the staff room wall or or having a, a, a coffee or go for a walk with someone to chat, it all helps just to know you're not alone, and that other people are aware and and can empathise with what you're going through, even if they're not going through it themselves. Yeah, absolutely. Oh no, that all sounds brilliant and it is, I believe next week is menopause awareness week.

OK. Yeah, so is, I don't know, is there any sort of initiatives or anything going on around that that you would encourage people to take part in or or get involved with? Well, I would just, if you find an appropriate moment at work, even if it's, you're not the one going through it, maybe just bring up the conversation, because don't forget, many people are.

Parts of of somebody who's going through it, and maybe they're struggling as well, because I don't think I was the easiest person to live with either at times. And I've heard that from a few partners. So, you know, there's a, everybody needs to help everyone.

It's there. You might be your mother, it might be your partner, you know, who's going through it, and you might be at a loss, you know, whatever you do seems to be wrong. So have the conversation and let's, you know, normalise it so we can all help it really.

Yeah, brilliant. I know there's a lot of places now as well they're doing like menopause champions at work and things like that. So maybe encouraging people to, I know, obviously at the moment it is very busy, isn't it, within the profession, but maybe incentives like that might be something that, you know, people could look at in the future to, you know, offer more support as well.

Yeah, that's such a great idea, but as you say, I'd hate to suggest anything that put more work onto anybody, any of the teams at the moment because they're all doing a tremendous job, holding the fort and, and across the whole country. So yeah, just as I say, there's always time for a quick cuppa and a quick blather with people and just to bring it up and let's normalise it. Yeah, absolutely.

Oh, that's brilliant. Thank you. And, you know, I, I believe there's over 3.5 million women in work who are over the age of 50 at the moment.

That is an awful lot of people out there, isn't there, who could be going through this right now. So the more that, you know, we can all do to have these conversations and to, you know, raise awareness of it, hopefully that will really help moving forward. Absolutely.

I would just like to say it's a total waste of our generation's experience of a number of us leave the profession. So let's get training, let's get talking and let's get supporting each other. Yeah, absolutely.

Oh, thank you, Melissa. That's, that's been wonderful. Can't thank you enough for, you know, giving up your time to have, you know, the conversation with us and we will, definitely if there's any information or any websites, or links, you know, to the Davina McCall programme, maybe what we could do is a little blog post and we can capture all the information there for for people to go to if they, you know, if they want to look for the, the guidance that you give them.

Yeah, thank you very much. Wonderful. Thank you very much.

Take care.