Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Vet Chat. Today, as part of our menopause awareness celebrations, I'm delighted to be joined by Melissa Donald, and we're gonna be discussing the extremely important topic of the menopause and our mental health. Before we get started, let me tell you a little bit about our guests today.
Melissa is a Glasgow vet school graduate from London who has over 25 years experience in first opinion practise. She's a former hill beef and sheep farmer, now with a small holding. Melissa has been the veterinary non-executive director on the board of the Red Tractor Farm assurance scheme for the past 4 years and is a trustee of the Scottish SPCA.
She's also been president of the Scottish branch of the British Veterinary Association. She was our CVS president from 2022 to 2023, is an elected member of the RCVS council and senior vice president of the RCVS. In her spare time she enjoys running and spinning, cooking and knitting, as well as being a wife, mother, grandmother, and breeder of border terriers.
So Melissa, welcome. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you, thank you very much for asking me.
So I guess to start, how come you wanted to get involved with our menopause Awareness Day celebrations this year? I think, although people are far more aware of the menopause than 10 years ago when I went through it at the start, it's really important to keep the discussion going, to collaborate, to find the new best practises, to help those with symptoms and those around them cope with why you're going through it, and to ensure it's not seen as an illness, but as a normal part of ageing. Absolutely, couldn't agree more.
And why do you think it's important for veterinary professionals to raise awareness and participate? Well, without awareness, we can't change, you know, we've lost and we will continue to lose significant numbers of experienced veterinary staff, vets, nurses, the whole team at really important times in their careers. Times when they can mentor the less experienced, time when a major earning potential, and time when the workforce is being challenged at many different levels.
So we really don't want to lose anyone else. So if we can support them to stay, then that's got to be a good thing. Yeah, absolutely.
And it does feel more than ever that people are talking about it, you know, more than ever before. I think it was 2 years ago maybe we did the first podcast on vet chat about the menopause, and there's definitely a lot more going on in the vet space it feels now than the. Back then, which is really positive.
Yeah, it's just, it's, it affects every single one in the country. You either go through it yourself or you are affected by someone else going through it. And as I said, it is a normal thing, but it's not without its challenges.
Yeah, absolutely. Brilliant. So do you mind telling us a little bit about your personal experience with the menopause?
Certainly. So no one in my family, my mum or my sister had openly been affected significantly. So I had, I knew, all I knew was really about the nighttime sweat.
OK. I was unaware of the vast range of symptoms, in particular, the 24/7 sweats, the leg pain, the brain fog, and the anxiety. Now, the sweats weren't pleasant, but I didn't realise the mental health impact which ultimately caused me to leave clinical practise.
And it was only with hindsight and increased awareness that I realised what it was. Add in the, my personal reluctance to use HRT to due to media scare stories, it could have been so, so different for me. Yeah, absolutely.
And do you mind sharing, like how long ago it was when you kind of started the menopause, where you're kind of at it now? It was about 1011 years ago and initially I thought, oh, this is a doddle because one of the, my reception staff, she was also going through it and she was moaning and I'm thinking, oh well, all I need to do is put my leg out of the bed and I'm cooler. That was just the beginning.
And so basically it then developed so that I was getting these sweats 24/7, your sleep break, you were towelling yourself down through the night, but as I say, those bits were very obvious and easy to understand. And my fear, because there was a lot of scaremongering, was that if I took HRT apart from the health risks, when I stopped HRT, I'd still have to go through all this when I was maybe in my 70s. And I thought, well, surely if I'm younger I'll be able to cope with.
So there was so much many myths that it really put me off doing anything like that. Yeah, absolutely. OK, so you've touched upon there all the sort of physical symptoms that you went through.
Could you tell us a little bit about this sort of emotional elements that you suffered with as well? So we all joke about the mood swings, you know, and, and, but they are really real. It isn't pleasant for anyone at home or work, the brain fog that so many suffer from, you really do start to worry am I getting dementia, am I getting Alzheimer's, you know, we, we're a, we, we have a little bit of human health knowledge and that's a dangerous thing.
So we put one and one. Together and get 300. You, I said that anxiety too, and I really didn't know about the anxiety, but I, I, when I look back, I realised I was ringing up my husband, he was the other partner in the business and he was the practise manager between ops and, and having actually a panic attack, but I didn't recognise it as such till later on.
And all of this can lead to loss of your identity personally and professionally, and some get depression too. And many relationships can't cope with this either, so the impact can be absolutely massive. Yeah, absolutely.
It's it's crazy actually really isn't it to think about how, you know, if you've not got that kind of support system around you, it could be incredibly scary. Yeah, it really is. Yeah.
OK, so that was great that in kind of work you had somebody there that you could kind of talk to and it sounds like you had quite an open culture if you talking about with your receptionist as well. Yeah, yeah, we, we talked about everything in our practise, it was really open. It, it was lovely in that way.
And, and, you know, 1011 years ago practise was different. I, we didn't have the time pressure that everyone's got now. So we did have time to chat and, and there would be maybe lulls in the evening surgery where you had a moment.
And, you know, one of the things is maybe to make sure you find that time again. Yeah, OK, brilliant. So if you're, say if some of our listeners at the moment, you know, are in practise and they suspect that, you know, they might be going through the menopause or you know, somebody in their team is, do you have any advice about encouraging opening conversations and constructive conversations around the menopause and mental health?
It really depends on your own culture, and, and where you come from and those around you. But don't forget menopause isn't until one size fits all. Everybody is different, and, and that's part of the difficulty.
There isn't a magic switch we can say do this and everything will be fine. But I really recommend that, you know, not just for menopause, for anyone to, if you see somebody, there's a change in them, you don't know if it's just something that's happened overnight or over the weekend, a personal thing. But check in with them.
Are you OK? And don't just take, I'm fine as an answer, you know, it's, and reassure them it's OK to not be OK. Do you want to go for a walk?
Here's a cup of tea, you know, just actually be kind and be nice and listen. It's, you know, don't just say, OK, and then they try and start to talk, but actually listen to what they try and say. And the other thing that's really important is giving people time.
A few seconds of silence can, can help. So if you say, are you fine and then you keep walking. The person's just going to see it, yeah, and keep walking in the other direction.
So giving each other time to answer, that's why you go for a walk or giving someone a lift to the station can sometimes give time to open up. And with walking and, and, and driving, you haven't got a direct eye to eye contact. It's sometimes easier to chat that way.
But this is for anything within the workplace. It doesn't have to be menopause, but it definitely helps menopause. Yeah, absolutely.
Did you know the webinar that Virtual Veterinary Congress is back for 2024. Starting on the 5th of February, we have 10 hours of continuing education with speakers such as Sarah Heath, John Chisy, and Samantha Kyler, and many, many more. We'd love to see you there.
And if you'd like to get involved again this year, or if you'd like to join us for the day next time, please click the link in the description below to find out more. It's interesting. Some feedback that we get from our community is, you know, we did a few polls on Instagram about, you know, do you feel supported in the workplace with the menopause, and, you know, there was a lot of feedback which said, I think, I think 100% actually said no, which is just so so sad.
But some of the feedback. That we get is that practises are introducing little things like they're having like fans, you know, on desks, and all those things I guess while they're being introduced, opening up the conversation to say, oh these are coming in because of the menopause, you know, that kind of also I guess could help start conversations off as well. You could also have lunch and learn.
You could bring someone in who you know is open about it, who, Who, who can just chat about their experiences and, and make it, so if nobody within the practise wants to, you can bring someone in, you know, and, and do something like that. I mean it's important to reiterate, it isn't a disease, but it as I said before, it significantly affects it and small changes in attitude can make major differences. Yeah, absolutely.
. Is there any sort of advice, anything else, that is going on in practise that you experienced or you know, any other sort of tips for our listeners who, you know, there might be a few men listening who don't know where to start, there might be a few younger colleagues in veterinary teams. Yeah, for them. Oh.
It's, it's really difficult, as I say, it's not one size fits all. Yeah, and I think, you know, with credit to the BVA, you know, where credit is due, making a workplace a good workplace enables everybody to have a better career and and enjoy going into work. So anything you can do, you know, if you can make somebody a schedule where there are gaps in it, you know, I know we're under pressure, but surely it's better to have that person there than no vet at all or no nurse at all, you know, make sure that they have can, if you have a shower, make sure the shower is clean and not full of so much stuff you can't go and get a quick shower.
Give, make sure that there are breaks that they can go and get outside for 5 minutes, you know, back 30 years ago when so many people smoked, you, OK, we didn't smoke inside, but they had 5 breaks. I'm not encouraging people to smoke, but if you need fresh air for 2 or 3 minutes, go and get fresh air. You know, it's not worth losing your good experienced staff because they don't feel they can cope.
But it covers all staff and all things. Now I'm not saying everybody should just go and have a tea break for 2 hours every day, but just make it flexible. Things like that, really help things like that.
Yeah, that's great advice. Thank you. Brilliant.
So moving away from the workplace just for now did you And sort of introduced any different lifestyle changes or did you get any, you know, feedback from other people going through it, any tips that you can share for us? Well, they say a healthy balanced diet, reducing your refined food, reducing your alcohol, and exercise will all help. And all those things will definitely help your body.
Whatever. But it won't help some people because I, I am reasonably fit. I didn't drink.
Sugar was probably my weakness, but, you know, at the end of the day, it's never going to sort everything. But making sure you have that headspace to go out and calm down or, or feel better or be able to go in and meet up with friends if that's what you need. To, those can never go wrong.
The one advice I would get, keep the 20 pounds yourself. Do not buy the purple magnets that you put inside your knickers, because they do not work. And you get so desperate, you will try anything.
So some of these wacky ones are wacky, OK, for a reason. So a good healthy life. Try and get, if you don't get good sleep, if you have to start taking a cat nap through the day, you have to take it.
You know, at the end of the day, you've got to look after yourself so that you can be useful for everything else you do in your life. Yeah. I've never heard of that before.
I'll have to Google, believe you me, they, you will spend money on things you never ever thought a sane person would. OK. Boots used to sell them, and if Boots sell them they must work.
Yeah, of course they don't. OK, brilliant, thank you. So listen to your buddy and your buddy and just, yeah, OK.
Are there any sort of positive success stories from the veterinary field that you could share? I know that when we did the panel discussion last year, the feedback was brilliant, and some feedback was that we'd love to hear more about what's going on in practise and anything a bit more positive, because it does tend to have a bit of a negative, you know, things with it. But it's, it's .
Like we've said before, not a specific practise we've done this, that and the other, but general small things, the fans, such a simple thing. I know hair and fur blows everywhere, but it makes such a big difference. And the, the shower, you know, I know it's an empty space.
I know everyone wants to tidy things away, but if you can get somewhere, you can get a wash and a clean down, that's. Really easy that helps, you know, if at lunchtime you can even have making sure if your practise supplies the scrubs, that there are plenty of them so you can change easily, you know, that's, that's really having somewhere you can change is important for some practises. And just being able to, as I say, take, having gaps in the schedule, that if the person can then catch up, that's wonderful.
They can go and help someone else if they're not needing them. You know, but if the gaps are there, it's really important. We support our new grads really well now with ensuring there's plenty of time for them.
Let's ensure that we look after our experienced staff just as well. Absolutely. So yeah, brilliant.
OK, that's wonderful. Thank you and I guess looking further ahead. If say if we look 5, 10 years from now, what sort of changes would you hope to see in the veterinary profession relating to the menopause?
. I would like there's no toxic veterinary workplaces. I'd like that there's no Subtle eye raising, sniggering, you know, oh my gosh, she's having one of her mood swings, you know, laughter is a good way of coping with it as long as it's not behind your back. But the small menopause adaptation is normal.
But in a way it's ensuring that anyone works in the practise with any needs can be accommodated and people have got open minds. That's really what I would would hope that every practise is a good workplace, whoever you are, of whatever stage, and it will sort it. You know, you can accommodate all different types of people then, you know, people with, with autism and ADHD which is becoming far more identified now in older people.
people who've got other, who may be a dyslexic, we can make sure things that, you know, changes for them. So menopause is just one thing, but, which is really important, but let's make sure it's a really good workplace for everybody, and if we can change for one thing, we can change for everything. Absolutely brilliant.
And do you think if we did a lot more around these things, obviously the menopause, but, you know, supporting our neurodiver colleagues as well, do you think, we would retain more team? Absolutely, it it's a bit of a no-brainer that one. It, we all went into this job because we wanted to be in this job.
None of us forced us. There are a lot of other careers there where we could have chosen. We all love it when we start out, but I have heard of sadly there are toxic.
Workplaces. They don't need to be. We just need to adapt to make it really nice for everyone to work in, to be kind, to be sensitive, to not mollycoddle.
Nobody wants to be mollycoddle, but if you have individual needs, and at the end of the day we are all individuals, that we try and accommodate them. You know, that this is also, if somebody's a superstar, you know, a basketball player, and they need Tuesday night to go training, and it's a, you know, a two hour journey maybe. So you accommodate that, guess what, they will stay.
If you have a good workplace, people will stay. Absolutely, and women are working, you know, longer than ever before, aren't they? So this is, this isn't gonna go away, it's something that we've got.
It really isn't it really, and it, but the other thing that's important is a lot of the symptoms are really vague and it's important to make sure you do see your doctor because for instance, thyroid disease can have many similar signs. You can have vile mood swings if you think of your hyperactive thyroid cat. You know, they, that happens in humans as well.
If you think about the sweats, that and the weight gain, that can also be menopause or it can be thyroid. So there are a lot of other diseases it could be. So it is important to get checked with your GP.
Now, the variability in the quality of your GPs is massive. So if you find your doctor doesn't take you seriously, try and find one that does. Easier said than done, and I know you have time, people are short of time.
But at the end of the day, if you can make sure rule out actual medical conditions as well, it's important. Yeah, OK, brilliant, thank you. And I guess finally if for our listeners, you know, if anybody is looking for information, they kind of don't know where to start to move forward with it.
Do you have any any companies or anything you'd recommend that people turn to? I would really encourage anyone to watch Davina McCall's TV programme, Sex Myths and Menopause. Absolutely enlightening it is.
Now there are a lot more reputable websites now compared to 10 years ago. We hopefully, your brain fog is such that you can work out the reputable ones compared to the wacky ones. But, there is a good NHS ones, there's menopause, the hubs out there.
But as I say, it affects everyone differently. So you particular angles that you need, you really need to make sure you go, go and sort that out yourself, but really recommend a Davina McCall. I wish I'd seen that 12 years ago.
OK. Brilliant, fantastic. And this podcast is, being released the week of menopause Awareness day in October, and I remember last year, seeing on Davina McCall's Instagram, she was doing little snippets every single day, so yeah, maybe that would be a good place to look as well for people.
So she's she's she's brought it out into the open if superstars like her, you know, suffer from it. Then it's OK for us to suffer from it to stop hiding it. It's not a disease and.
Would you please accommodate. That's a brilliant place to end, Melissa. Thank you so much.
Thank you for coming back to vet chat and yeah, if there's anything else that you know webinar vet can do to help with the menopause, then just let us know we'd love to. Thank you, it's been a pleasure and thank you for asking me. Brilliant, thank you, bye.
