Good evening, everybody. This is Andy Mee from Veterinary Management Consulting, and welcome to the latest practise management webinar, which this evening is sponsored by MWI Animal Health. And tonight, I'm delighted to introduce, Nadine Hamilton, who'll be talking about impostor syndrome.
If you have any questions, do please put them in the Q&A box, and we'll do our best to answer them. Well, Nadine will do her best to answer them at the end. So Nadine is a registered psychologist and master's qualified trainer who completed doctoral research into veterinarian well-being.
After quitting school and entering the workforce at the age of 15, she had the benefit of working in a wide range of industries both in Australia, as well as New Zealand and the United Kingdom. While she's always had a love of animals and wanted to be a veterinarian herself, she soon learned she was way too queasy to become a veterinarian. As well as having a focus on well-being, Nadine is also passionate about suicide prevention within the general population and has experienced firsthand the loss of family and friends through suicide.
Her goal is to help as many people as she can to provide them with effective coping skills and techniques, so they're equipped to deal with the demands of everyday life in a much healthier way. Nadine's mindfulness, well-being, and resi resiliency training programme provides an effective psychologically based programme that can teach people how to cope with everyday pressures. So they no longer feel like suicide is the only way out.
The programme has been tested through her doctoral research with statistically significant results in reducing stress, depression, anxiety, and negative effect. So welcome, Nadine, and it's over to you. Thank you.
Thank you and good evening, everyone. It's, it's bright and early for me in the morning, so it's a good morning for me, and you're just finishing your day while I'm just starting mine. So thrilled to be, presenting with you.
And again, we were just talking offline. I'm originally from the UK there, so, I have a very soft spot for, all of you over there. So, and obviously I still have a lot of family there too.
So, it's, yeah, nice to be able to, to connect with you all over the other side of the world, even though I'm here down under in Australia at the moment. So. I hope that you're gonna enjoy this presentation.
It's a really topical topic. It can be quite a sensitive topic for some people, but it's so relevant to everything that's going on, within this profession, particularly in my experience and in the research that I've done. So, I'm gonna be covering like what is impostor syndrome, because there can be some confusion between compassion fatigue and impostor syndrome.
So people sometimes think that it's one or the other. So hopefully I'll be able to, provide you with a, a really clear outline of what it is. Also, how you recognise.
So some of the signs and the symptoms. Please, I will just say from the outset, don't use this as a diagnosis though. Use it as an indication.
So the more of these points that you can relate to, the more it may indicate that you are experiencing imposter syndrome, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's an absolute diagnosis. And also, finishing off with some ways of being able to deal with it, per se. So some of the things that you can do to try and cope with it, if you have recognised that you're experiencing imposter syndrome, or you think you may be, or somebody that you know may be experiencing it, being able to have some effective ways to try and address that.
I know we've already done a really quick bio, so I'm gonna keep this really, really short and sweet. Obviously, yes, as, Lewis and Andy were saying that I am a registered psychologist, completed my doctoral research into veterinarian wellbeing, specifically looking at the contributing factors to the high burnout and the high rates of suicide. From that, or since then, which I completed in 2016, I worked exclusively with the veterinary profession now, so I've dedicated, pretty much my life and my career to this profession that I am so passionate about, particularly from that well-being perspective.
And I started a charity, like, I wanted to know, well, what else can we do? Like, it didn't feel like enough that I'd got all of this research. I wanted to say, well, how can I now take that research and do something practical about it?
So I started this charity, called Love Your Pet, Love Your Vet. I partnered here in Australia with Royal. Cannon, Australia, to be able to launch this campaign, and there's, there's details on our website and, Facebook.
If you haven't seen it, we've got a whole series of videos there with, practising vets, from here in Australia talking about, you know, the, the contributing factors that we came, that came out of the research. And the campaign was so successful that I did register it as a charity. So we're going from strength to strength and really Noticing the differences that are already starting to happen.
And essentially, the focus is around reducing the stigma in all veterinary professionals seeking help, so not just the vets, because we know that the nurses, the technicians, the students, the practise managers, you know, all of those veterinary workers are susceptible to these stressors, so we want to make sure that we have a holistic approach. We're also focusing on raising awareness within the community about the realities of working in the profession, not just the perceptions, and you've probably all heard all the excuses and had, you know, all of those snide remarks made at you. So I don't feel I need to reiterate what they are, because you can probably already relate to those.
But also providing psychological and educational support to all veterinary professionals. We've recently had a focus over here, particularly after the bushfires that we had in Australia, where we are extending, you know, the work that we're doing and that awareness into the wildlife sector as well, because, you know, sadly, our wildlife was severely affected. A lot of species were, basically made extinct over here as a result.
So I know a lot of our wildlife carers and rescuers are also struggling. So we wanted to make sure that it was holistic in covering. A industries.
My doctoral thesis was converted, I guess, or we turned that into a book, taking out all the academic bits and pieces, you know, all the statistical results and the methods, all that really fine-tuned sort of stuff to try and make it a really easy to read, easy flowing book. And it goes into my doctoral research, all of those contributing factors. We're looking at it from, the perspectives of the UK, Australia, the US, Canada, where we do have specific statistics for each of those countries.
And then also at the, the end of it, there is a copy of the coping and well-being programme, which is that training programme that I used within my doctoral research and was successful in achieving, statistical significance in reducing stress, anxiety, depression, and negative effects. It's a fancy way of saying that it was effective. So, you can buy that on Amazon and Book Depository and all those bookstores as well.
And then the other thing I guess is the conference that I put on, it was scheduled for March this year, so it would have already happened, but unfortunately with what's happening around. The world with the COVID-19, I've had to postpone that. So it's now happening in September.
So if travel is permitted by September and you fancy a trip out here to Australia, you're more than welcome to, come on over and and attend the conference. It's gonna be fabulous. So, getting into impostor syndrome though.
And I think before we start, and this is a chance to be really honest with yourself, because if you're not honest with yourself, if you're not really accepting things and you're avoiding it and pushing it aside, you're only really kidding yourself. So we want to be encouraging you to really be honest. And ask yourself, like, when you think about your failings, you know, are those things that you would say, aren't successful or things that have happened that haven't gone the way that you would want.
Do you put those down to your own fault, you know, because you're not good enough, or you, you're not smart enough, or you don't, you're not experienced enough, Whatever reason you may come up with, but then you feel that any success you have is sheer good luck. It's Not because you are smart enough or you're experienced enough or you're qualified enough. You just say, Oh, no, it was only because, this person happened to just walk in right at the same moment.
That was the only reason why this outcome was successful. So do you, when things don't go well or don't go right, do you blame yourself, but then when things do go right, do you not acknowledge yourself? Are you wondering, so there's this thing called the fraud police.
So do you think that, like, you feel like you're watching over your shoulder and thinking, Oh my gosh, you know, I'm gonna be exposed, or they're gonna find out that I'm not good enough and that I shouldn't be here, and that I feel like a phoney, because I, I really don't feel like I'm competent enough when I compare myself with other people or with my colleagues, and they're gonna find out, you know, at some point they're gonna realise what's going on and that I shouldn't really be here. Which again, Isn't true. You know, if you are qualified and you are, you know, whether you're, you're licenced or you're registered there with your vet surgeon's board, you know, if you have that qualification and that registration, then clearly you have the qualifications to be there, but within yourself, you may not feel that you deserve to be there.
And would you believe me if I told you that you weren't alone? So, sometimes when we experience imposter syndrome, and I'm gonna, you might be quite amazed at how common it actually is, and I'll share that in a couple of slides, but if you don't feel like you belong, so maybe you don't feel that you're good enough, that you are feeling like a fraud. It's like, oh, I know I've been to university and I've got my bachelor's degree or my DVM, but I, I really shouldn't be here.
I've got no idea what I'm doing. Like, what was I thinking? Thinking that I could come in here and work, you know, as a vet or as a vet nurse?
Like, what, what was I thinking? You're not alone if you feel like that. And these are the kinds of feelings that we talk about when we're talking about impostor syndrome or impostor phenomenon, as it's also known, that affects A wide range of people from all aspects of life.
It is very common in the veterinary profession, and particularly these kind of professions where we are taking things to the next level. So having gone to university, if you've gone to university, and then coming out, you know, into the real world where you don't have the support of your lecturers or your fellow students, and if you make a mistake in a, practical setting, it's not as long as you're not practising on real animals, of course. But when you're doing all of that theory and everything, it's not as big an issue as it would be if you were practising on a real animal in the real world where you have to take responsibility for everything.
So it affects us, I guess, particularly in those helping professions, because we do take on a lot of responsibility. We take on that responsibility of other people expecting us to have all the answers, and expecting us to be able to solve everything that's going on. So, just have a look at these, and again, please be completely honest with yourself as we go through them.
And again, don't use this as a diagnosis, but rather use it as an indication, if you can relate to any of these. So, do you feel like you're a fake or a phoney? OK, do you feel like, oh my gosh, I, I'm not good enough to be here.
I haven't got what it takes to be here. I haven't, I haven't studied enough, I haven't, you know, got enough qualifications. Maybe I've got my bachelor of Vet Science degree, but maybe I really should have gone and done my DVM, then I would feel that I should be here.
Do you feel like a fraud? And again, that you don't belong here? Do you feel that you're inadequate and that you don't really have what it takes?
Again, these are just feelings. They're not necessarily the reality of what's going on. Feeling like people are gonna find out that you really have no idea what you're doing.
And probably a really good way to explain that, I think, you know, from personal experience was the very first exam that I did. In my bachelor's degree, which was a long time ago now, I remember looking at that exam paper and reading the questions and having a little mild state of panic. I was thinking, oh my goodness, I've got no idea.
I don't know the answers to any of these questions. You know, and just having that fear, that initial sense of fear. But then obviously, you know, took a breath and went, OK, let's actually read the question.
Questions and then realising, you know what, I actually do know the answers to the majority of these questions. I have studied enough, I do, but just that initial, when you're put out there into this environment that you're not familiar with, can be really quite overwhelming and daunting, and again, reinforce some of these thoughts or these ideas that you don't have, have what it takes. Feeling like you're not like the rest of your colleagues.
As well, you know, like, you, you might sort of put your colleagues up on a pedestal and think, oh, they've got it all together. You know, they're so smart, they're so confident. You know, no matter what challenge comes through the door, they're just able to run with it.
But you never know what's actually going on for them. They may be struggling and feeling like they're not good enough and they don't have what it takes, so it, it can be a little bit of a persona. Or thinking again, you know, whatever gave me the idea that I'm not smart enough or experienced enough to be here, what was I thinking?
So, also, that you don't deserve the success, that you don't feel that you have earned it, or that you've just fluked your way through university and you shouldn't be here, or you've fluked your way through the 1st 5 or 10 years of your career, and the success has only happened. Because you've had other people around you and they have contributed to this. So again, it's all those sorts of feelings or those thoughts that we're having.
So the more of these that you can relate to, the more it may indicate that impostor syndrome. Is happening, but again, don't use this as a diagnosis, use it as an indication. And again, so if you can relate to them, just take that on board and say, you know what, maybe I am experiencing imposter syndrome.
Some people feel embarrassed about it, so they don't want to. Accept it. And again, if this is happening and you're not accepting it, so if you're avoiding it, it's not really gonna change anything.
So, you know, in, in my opinion, it's always better to be proactive and say, you know what? I think I am experiencing this, and you'll be surprised at how common it really is. So the term actually came from two psychologists where originally the, the terminology, the impostor syndrome, was used to describe women who, Despite what they thought or despite how they felt, they didn't feel like they were successful enough.
So they may have been to university, got degrees, got, got their qualifications, but still didn't feel that they were good enough to be out there and working and doing all of these things. And so they felt that no matter what they did, Their, their success or, you know, their achievements, their accomplishments they had was purely because it was just good luck. You know, I just managed to fluke it, and my job, I just had the most amazing boss who was so supportive and did everything for me.
That's the only reason why I've made it the Last 5 years, you know, those sorts of things. Or again, it was just a fluke that I managed to get a job that I did know a tiny little bit about. So they weren't able to start looking at the actual successes that they did have and the competencies that they did have.
So, there is this fear that, you know, as I said before, that, you know, the, the phoney police are gonna come out, they're having this fear of self-doubt. So you're questioning everything that's going on. And you may feel, as I said earlier, that you may look at other people and feel that they've got it all together.
They're so confident, they are really competent in what they're doing, and, oh gosh, I wish I was like them. So you compare yourself to The, but everybody is battling something inside. You know, the grass isn't always greener on the other side, despite what we may think or despite perceptions.
Some people are just very, very good at covering it up. People may think the same thing about you. People may think, oh my gosh, you're so confident, and you've just got it all together, you just get in there and you just do your job with ease and all of this, because you don't show how you're feeling or you don't talk about how you're thinking about what's going on.
So again, And there is this persona that may be happening. And it's important to recognise that just because we think that other people are all that, they, they may not necessarily be feeling like that. Again, it can just be like this persona that's going on.
But it's also over the years, they now have recognised that men can experience imposter syndrome just as much as women. So it's not only the women now that are described as being affected by impostor syndrome, it is the men as well. So it can affect men and women easily, equally.
This is where the stats are really interesting. 70% of people will experience imposter syndrome at some stage. You know, that's, that's pretty high.
So if you think, you know, if you work with 10 colleagues, 7 of those are likely to be feeling like this. So if you put that on the flip side, and you say, you know what, only 30% of people are unlikely to experience this. This is pretty high statistics when we're looking at, when we start looking at it from this way.
And, I, I love this little graphic here, and excuse the language at the end, but, you know, going to grad school or university, where half the people suffer from the imposter syndrome and the other half don't know what the heck they're doing. You know, I just think it, it sums it up, and I know myself. I've experienced this, particularly as a new graduate, you know, going from theory and having to put that theory into practise.
It's a big step. There's a lot of responsibility, particularly in the professions that we're working, because our decisions and our choices. Can be life and death, you know, they can affect that.
So they can have very, very serious, consequences. So it's not like if we, you know, type a form wrong, or, you know, we do something that may not have the consequences that we, we are dealing with. So, you know, there, it's very serious stuff that we're dealing with, and 70% of us are going to experience these feelings.
So if we look at some of the things that are said to contribute or cause it, some people may have certain personality traits. So an anxious personality, so somebody who's like, Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, catastrophizing about everything and worrying about everything, and just, you know, like, oh my gosh, what if this happens? And then this happens and this happens, and that neuroticism.
Perfectionists may be acceptable to this. And then I say this with the utmost respect, that we know that a lot of veterinary professionals do tend to have those perfectionistic tendencies. So it does increase that likelihood.
Again, you know, those personality traits that we feel that we have to be perfect. We can't make mistakes, we can't do anything wrong. And so when we're not feeling confident about our abilities to be able to do our job, it then starts to exacerbate this feeling of being an imposter or, or being a phoney, and that we shouldn't really be here.
So again, you may find that it is exacerbated, in this particular profession. There may be some family factors or some behavioural things going on as well. Maybe you've grown up in a family.
You know, of perfectionists as well, and feeling like you have to compete with everybody else. You know, maybe you've got high achieving siblings or high achieving parents that have pushed you and you felt like, I really don't want to have to do this, but I feel like I was forced, you know, to go and study vet science, you know, just to please my parents, but I, I don't, I'm not smart enough to be here. I'm not like my brothers and sisters who are really smart.
So again, there could be those sorts of things that are happening. Or again, just your behaviours. You know, I sort of, perhaps, you know, personally for me, when I think about this, and, you know, especially in those early days where, you know, I was a high school dropout.
I left school at 15 with no school qualifications whatsoever. Because I talked too much, and I know that's really hard to believe, but I did. I talked too much.
I wasn't interested in. I suspect I had a little bit of ADD, even though I was never diagnosed, because I didn't relate to the style of learning, you know, that lecture and learn style, that didn't suit my learning style. So I mucked around, I talked too much, and I failed everything.
So for me as a 15 year old high school dropout, going to university, you know, in my mid to late 20s as a mature age student, long, long, lot of years away now, But then when I sort of went into the real world, you know, I was sort of going, Oh my gosh, what am I doing? Like, I'm a high school dropout, and here I am with a university degree, you know, particularly now, you know, over the years as I've, you know, done, done more and more studies and more and more degrees. You know, I'm OK with it now, but, you know, every now and then I'll still have moments if I'm doing something that I'm not.
Confident with, or someone asks me to do something, like, Oh, I haven't done that before, but yes, why not? Let's just give it a go. You know, it's very easy to start questioning yourself like, oh my gosh, am I the right person?
Do I know enough to be here? You know, because we do, we compare ourselves to other people, all the time, and we start questioning ourselves and our own ability. And a lot of the time that's to our own detriment.
Again, remembering that 70% of us will experience this syndrome at least once in our lifetime, so that's a lot of people, again, when you start breaking that down, particularly, you know, I just like that analogy of looking at it. You know, in a, in a room of 10 people or like in a room of 100 people, you know, that essentially 3/4 of those people are gonna be experiencing imposter syndrome. So the majority of people will experience this.
So it's very common. Being in a new setting or a new environment, again, you know, it's like that feeling when you start a new job as well. It's like, oh, this is horrible, I don't know where everything is, I don't know the systems, I don't know who everyone is and how everyone clicks and fits in and all of that.
And it's Like, Oh, I just wish I knew everything that there could be to know. You know, it's that really unsettling feeling that you do, or maybe it's just me, but you do, tend to feel a little bit helpless and just really out of your depth, starting a new job or being in a new environment. So again, it's these sorts of things that can contribute to it.
Excuse me. So, some of the symptoms, and again, don't use this as a diagnosis, please just make sure that it's just an indication. Generally, a couple of these, at least 2 of these, are required.
So you may just have one of them and, you know, but it might be common, you know, that most people may have that experience. But obviously, the more you can relate to, the higher the likelihood that this may, indicate that there is impostor syndrome going on. But this need to feel special or be the best at what there is.
Again, you know, if you come from a competitive family, then that may exacerbate this again, because you've got that competition. And then you're in an environment that, you know, essentially you think about it, only the best of the best get into university. So it's very competitive.
Of getting in to actually do your studies, then when you're in your studies, you have to be the best, you know, to be able to get through. And if you want, if you are that high achieving personality and you want to make sure that you're getting the highest, results and the highest grades, you know, so there is just this competition that's all the way through. And a lot A lot of my veterinary colleagues, particularly over here in Australia, say, you know, we're not taught how to fail.
We don't know what it's like to fail because it is drummed in that we have to be perfect. We have to get everything right. We have to do this, otherwise we're not gonna be able to cope in the real world.
So there's this whole culture around competition and perfectionism and, you know, like, being the best and high achieving and That's not always realistic. You know, when we get into the real world, we can't always be 100% and getting 100% for everything because it's just not realistic. And unfortunately, then that can start contributing to some of those, you know, negative or not so good, symptoms that start to come out.
Feeling like you have characteristics of Superman or Superwoman. Like I can do anything. I'm just amazing, or, you know, I, I, maybe I don't, or maybe I should be like them, or I wish I was like them.
There could be this fear of failure, really common, like, oh my gosh, what happens if I'm not good enough? What happens if I go in there and I don't, save this animal or my surgery is an absolute mess, or I use the wrong medication, or You know, I mess up the medication. So just these constant, thoughts that are going, going through your mind, or feelings.
A denial of ability and discounting any praise. So that may be, you may get the most amazing outcome. So you might, I don't know, let's think a best case scenario, you saved an animal's life.
Well, I would think that was the best case scenario, but just use that hypothetically. And, you know, the owners have come in and they have so much gratitude and appreciation for what you have done. But then you sort of deny, you go, Oh, look, no, it was actually only fluke.
You know, like, you might say that to your colleagues, not to the client, or, oh, no, look, it was only because I had the best team supporting me, and I'm not discounting their support, because obviously that is still important, like it's a team. But you may not. Take accountability or take credit for what you have actually done.
You know, if you're the one who has physically performed this procedure that has saved this animal's life, then you're the one who should be getting the credit for that. But you may deny that, you may discount any praise and brush it off like, no, no, no, you know, it's, it's nothing. Again, or you might say, no, it was only it was only because I had other people helping me or they told me what to do.
So you may like not take credit for your own ability and your own experience when you're in that situation. You may fear, fear or feel guilty about success. Now, maybe you're not used to, to being in that kind of environment, so maybe this feels a little bit different to you when you're thinking about, excuse me, being Being successful.
It just might, might feel like, oh gosh, no, I'm not good enough to be successful. What was I thinking? Or there might be a sense of fear around it, like, oh my gosh, what would happen if I'm successful, then people are gonna start coming to me and expecting me to have all the answers, and I haven't got them because I'm really struggling with feeling like a phoney at the moment.
So, you know, you could have all of these sorts of things that are going on. Also, some common examples, because people may experience things differently, depending on like your level of resilience, the, coping strategies that you have and the coping mechanisms that you have. So you may experience these in different ways to other people, or there may be a lot of similarities as well.
But these are some of the common symptoms. Overworking. And typically that overwork will come because it's like this need to prove yourself.
But so if, if it's like, you know what, I'm just gonna work 12 hours today, because I'm trying to reinforce to myself that I am good enough. But then if I present as really busy, nobody will stop and ask me because they'll, they'll. I assume that I know what I'm doing because I'm so busy and I'm gonna look like I'm really confident and competent.
Remember what I said earlier about when you look at your colleagues and you may think that they're all that, they may be struggling with this, that might be why they're coming out and they're overworking or they're just so focused on what they're doing. So that overwork can come because it's a way of sort of going, oh, if I just work harder, then I'll prove to myself or I'll prove to others that I do have what it takes. So this could be a key indicator, again.
You may just be in a really, really fast-paced, and really busy environment as well. But it could be an indication that that need to be overworking and sort of going above and beyond when it's not necessary. You know, when you don't need to be there.
It's like, Oh, look, I'm just gonna stay behind and just get all of this stuff done, you know, it's like, well, it's 9 o'clock, maybe you should go home, instead, and maybe do that tomorrow because you've got some downtime tomorrow to do it. Again, it could just be this need to like prove yourself, either to yourself or to somebody else. You might undermine yourself.
So you might just start discounting everything and like, Oh, did I actually do the right dosage of that medication? Did I actually check that I'd done this and have I done that? Oh, gosh, maybe I should just check, you know, ring back and check, you know, with the nurses if they've done this, or maybe I need to check with my colleagues if that got done.
Or again, double checking with someone else, you know, you might say, Oh, could you just double check this, that I've actually done this right, just to make Sure I haven't missed anything, you know, and it, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a bad thing to double check things. Sometimes that is necessary, but it's more where you're discounting and undermining yourself and your abilities and what you've done. There may be this fear of failure, again, you know, like, oh my gosh, I can't possibly fail because what would that mean?
People will find out that if I do something wrong, or if I mess this up, then that's just going to be disastrous. And I think it's really interesting, last year, I think it was. There were 3 cases in 1 week.
Some were here in Australia, some were overseas, where I was personally contacted by vets who had had, who had lost an animal during a seemingly routine procedures. I think they were, they may have all been desexing, and all lost, their patience. And the first person they blamed was themselves.
It's because I'm not good enough. I knew I shouldn't be a a vet. What was I thinking?
I'm not competent enough to do this job. So they self-reflected and self-blamed first and foremost without actually taking a step back. And like I understand it, of course I do, but without taking a step back and going, Hang on, let's look at the bigger picture here.
What was actually going on? And in each of these cases, there were underlying conditions that hadn't been diagnosed. And there was one in particular that the, the vet was so distraught that the employer insisted on having an autopsy, I think it was a dog, having an autopsy on This, this puppy, because they were like, this puppy has seemed relatively healthy.
Why did this happen during a desexing? And again, you know, the vet took this on personally, but during the autopsy, they found that there was an underlying, I think it was a, a heart condition, that there was no way it could have been detected unless they'd specifically gone in to look for it, and there was no indication whatsoever that that, that was what was needed. So, It was inevitable.
So whichever vet had been performing the surgery, this was gonna be the outcome. But again, you know, it's just that self blame and that fear of failure. And, you know, we, it is a, a high-risk occupation.
Again, you know, we're dealing with life and death, and Unfortunately, you know, the, the public, can be relentless. You know, they can be really, really awful and just exacerbate things without having all the facts. You know, and there's a case of that going on here in Australia at the moment that, Yvette client told me about yesterday, So it's, you know, it's looking at all of these things, and people are so quick to judge and shame and all of that without knowing, you know, and the reality is, we are all human, we are all doing the best we can, and mistakes do happen.
But again, there is this fear of that happening. And again, nobody wants to think that, you know, oh, great, I can't wait for a mistake to happen. We don't want that, obviously, but the reality is that it may happen at some point.
Again, feeling like we have to be perfect. I have to just do everything perfectly. I have to groom the animals before they go back to the owner after they've had surgery so that they, they look beautiful and they're, they're pretty, and, you know, they look perfect.
I have to make sure that all the stitches I've done are all, you know, absolutely perfect and aligned. Or I can't do anything wrong. I'm not allowed to ask questions of anybody.
I have to know everything myself. I have to have all the answers. And again, you know, this is part of that culture as well, of this industry that we need to start.
Reducing that stigma around, you know, this need to be perfect, because there is no such thing as being perfect. And, you know, I've worked with a client who had the most amazing customers, and she said, you know, and they thank me, they send me cards. It's, yeah, it's really lovely, she said, but it freaks me out.
And I said, Why does that freak you out? You know, That's like what we're aiming for. We want customers to be able to appreciate you, not necessarily, you know, bombarding you with gifts.
It's not all about that. It's just that acknowledgement, that gratitude, and that appreciation. And she said to me, Yes, but now I'm freaking out because how can I do better than that next time?
Because they're expecting me to always perform at 100%. How can I I do better and improve that next time they come in. Which is really not realistic.
You know, if you're doing the best that you can, you're doing the best that you can. And that has to be good enough because we can't do better than our best. So again, it's just this need, this, you know, constant reinforcing of perfectionism that we really need to Take down a notch because it's not realistic.
And again, perfectionism, you know, or that, that notion of being perfect, it doesn't exist. Because what you think is perfect, I may not. What I think is perfect, you may not.
So again, it's a bit like saying what's normal or happiness means different things to different people. Discounting praise again, you know, so it might be, oh, look, it was nothing. No, no, no.
It was really, only because this happened, or you just got me on a good day. I had a good sleep last night, so that's the only reason why. You know, so you may just not accept that praise.
You may just push it off because, again, you're feeling like a phoney. And so when somebody is praising you, it's sort of like, yeah, it just doesn't feel right. I don't believe it because I don't feel that myself.
So quick poll question here, and I think, Lewis is going to put up the poll. I'm not sure how that's gonna work. I'm doing it.
Oh, there we go. There you go. Oh, there we go.
I haven't actually seen a poll in the Zoom before, so it's kind of exciting. So the, the question is, what percentage of people are said to experience imposter syndrome at some stage in their life? Hopefully I reiterated it enough already.
It's coming through loud and clear so far. Excellent. OK, I'll just give you another 5 seconds if anybody hasn't who wants to.
We've got about 2/3 done. OK, so we've got 89%, sorry, 80% now are saying that it's 70% the percentage. 5% are saying 78% and 15% are saying 75%.
So we were still in the 70s, so that's still really good, but yeah, it is 70%. 70%, so that the 80% there, got that right. So remembering that 30% of people don't experience it or won't experience it.
So it's again it's really high, it's really high, percentages. So, excellent. Thank you for that.
So now, I mean, obviously we've identified what it is. We've identified some of those symptoms. The all important thing is, is there anything I can do about it?
So what can be done about it? And the good news is, yes, there are things that you can do about it. I think the first thing though, is admitting to yourself and being completely honest with yourself that this may be going on.
It is very common, as we're just saying, you know, 70% of people are gonna be experiencing this. So it's not like it's something really, really rare or anything like that. But then just saying, you know, like, who am I hurting by not addressing it?
Who am I hurting by not doing something about it? So I want to be able to Be proactive, you know, and start addressing it. So hopefully some of these things that I'm gonna share with you are gonna be really helpful.
The first thing is asking, is there any evidence to prove I'm a failure? So this is a little bit of a concept that comes from cognitive behavioural therapy. You know, is, is there any evidence?
So if you're convinced that you're a failure, that you're not good enough, that you're a phoney, Then start trying to find the evidence. You know, it's like, convince me you're a failure. So did you, you know, you, you successfully got into university to study vet medicine?
Yes. You know, or again, if you're a nurse, if it, if it was vet nursing, and I, I appreciate in the UK you can actually do a bachelor's, of vet nursing there. It's not that common over here in Australia at the moment.
It's still certificate level, here, but again, university for whatever you're doing. So it's like, yes, I got in. Did I pass my exams?
It doesn't matter whether it took you two attempts to do that or not. You know, the fact that you've passed your exams, you've earned your degree, would that indicate that you're a failure? Would you think somebody, you know, that you were talking to a colleague or a friend or a loved one, would you think they're a failure just for, you know, if they've been able to earn themselves a bachelor's degree?
I certainly wouldn't. So again, you're, you're searching for that evidence. So like, this is proper evidence, not just like, Oh yes, well, because I messed up a diagnosis yesterday, so that automatically means I'm a failure.
It's like, does it really mean you're a failure? Or does it mean that maybe you didn't have enough information there and you went down this path, but actually it was this path. You know, that's all part of us learning, you know, like, we don't always get things correct.
You know, I might work with a client and I might be Thinking that there's, you know, this thing going on, but actually maybe it's this underlying thing that's exacerbating it. So again, you know, asking, is there any evidence, like convince me you're a failure. Is it helpful?
So does it really help you? Does it help you to enjoy your job? Does it help you to do your job, in a really fulfilling way?
Does it enable you to thrive in your job, having these thoughts that you're a phoney? I'm guessing not. I don't imagine that it would be a helpful thing.
But again, asking yourself, you know, is it helping me? So even if I am feeling this way, Is it helpful for me to keep putting myself and, and telling myself that I'm not good enough? Excuse me.
Other thoughts or these feelings that I'm having, are they realistic? So is it realistic to think that just because I misdiagnosed an animal yesterday, that I shouldn't be a vet, or I'm not good enough to be a vet nurse? Is it realistic?
Again, no, it's not. If you think about other professions and, you know, particularly in the human medicine world, the diagnoses aren't always correct. They, you know, how many people are misdiagnosed or, you know, given the wrong medication, or those sorts of things that are going on, you know, this happens.
It, it happens for all of us that, you know, none of us again, have all the answers and we're not perfect. So it's not realistic to expect that just because we're feeling like a phoney, that that means we are a phoney. So just start asking, is there any evidence?
Is it helpful to be thinking these things? Are they realistic to be thinking or feeling in this way? Will it help me in the long run if I buy into it, and by buying into it, I mean, when we're having these thoughts, when we're having these feelings, if we pay them all of our attention, And we act as if they are true, without actually recognising, you know, well, maybe they're not, this is just my, my thoughts telling me that they are.
Is this gonna help me in the long run? So this isn't about the short term stuff. This is about in the long run.
So if I allow these thoughts that I'm not good enough and I don't have what it takes, and, you know, the feelings that I have with it, if I buy into those, is that going to help me to feel that sense of well-being in the long run and help me to feel successful? Likely it won't, but again, this is a question, you know, to ask yourself. Are your thoughts and your feelings aligned with your values?
And by values, I'm talking about those things that give you your sense of meaning and purpose. So values, in this concept, I'm talking about from, the theory around acceptance and commitment therapy, or ACT, which is a psychological intervention. Where values are slightly different to your ethics and your morals and your standards, because those things tend to have rules attached, like I should, I must, and I have to.
And if we feel like we should be doing this stuff, we have to always do this stuff, and we must be doing this stuff, eventually we're probably gonna start feeling resentful. You know, like, who says I always have to be nice? Who says I should be perfect.
At everything. He says, I must get everything done, you know, by 5 o'clock every day. So again, you know, we're gonna start getting a little bit agitated and resentful if we keep, you know, living by those things.
But our values are actions, so they're things we can do. So if we value being professional, we can act in a professional manner, you know, so when I I'm thinking about these unhelpful thoughts and feelings that I'm having about being a phoney or being a failure, is that aligned with my values? I don't value feeling like that.
So when I'm reinforcing these things with myself, I'm just exacerbating it. I'm just making it worse for myself rather than actually doing anything to enhance, you know, or maintain my level of well-being. Couple of other things here.
I think it's really interesting that, you know, one of the differences between someone with impostor syndrome and someone who's not experiencing impostor syndrome is how they respond to challenges. So again, this starts coming into that self-talk. You know, listen to your self talk.
Is it negative? Is it pessimistic? And are you putting yourself down and being really negative or, I don't know the right word.
Just, yeah, horrible to yourself, I guess, is, you know, puts it nicely. Yeah, so are you really just, you know, when you talk to yourself, it's like, Oh, I'm this, I'm this, I wish I was that, but I'm not. Is it that negative, that pessimistic, like, well, what's the point?
You know, nothing, it's not gonna make any difference anyway. Or are you someone who is more optimistic and takes more of a positive angle, because again, you know, it's how you respond to these challenges, like, OK, you know what, I can do this. If I have to ask for help, then so be it, .
I'm not afraid to ask for help, there's no shame in asking for help. So again, it's just thinking about how you're responding to what's going on, and that can be the main difference between experiencing it and not experiencing it, which is really interesting. If you have, again, criticism, if someone's gonna be critical, then it should be constructive criticism, not just horrible criticism or negative criticism to put you down.
It should have some constructive component to it. So if somebody is giving you constructive criticism, so maybe they've seen how you've done something and there is a much better way that that it could be done. That if someone says, Do you know what I noticed that when you were prepping this animal, you did it this way.
Could I suggest that it's maybe done in this way because it's much quicker, it's much more effective, you use less, the prep material, again, whatever it is. So rather than saying that, oh, they think I'm not good enough and I don't even know how to prep an animal now, then looking at it and going, Oh, actually, that would be great if I could do that, because if I can save the amount of, The, I don't know what resources you use, but like in human terms, like the Betadine or something like that that you're using, you know, to do that pre, what's the word, antiseptic. As I say, disinfectant sort of stuff.
You get the gist, I hope. But, you know, maybe if I can do that and I can actually save the amount that we're having to use, which will then, you know, cost less for the practise. But if I can do it a lot quicker, that means that I can get through this procedure.
I'm not going to run as late and, you know, Then I can be more efficient with my time. You know what? Maybe, maybe I will take this on board, because I don't think any of us appreciate feeling like we're being criticised.
And when, even when it's constructive, it's very easy to take that personally and take it, you know, and get defensive because we feel like it's nearly an accusation that we're not good enough. But if we do sort of take it on board, and again, it needs to be done constructively, you know, or said again, in an assertive kind of way. That sometimes we do need to take it on board, and it is very hard.
I'm the first to admit that it can be very, very hard because we automatically want to get defensive because we think our way of doing something may be the best way of doing it. And it's sort of like, oh, well, someone else is telling me they obviously don't think I'm good enough to do this. But, you know, when we can take that on board and you, you know what?
I am gonna take that on board. Maybe I will try it. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
So again, it's thinking of things differently, and before you become reactive, maybe be a little bit more proactive and just really listen to what somebody's saying and seeing, are they actually having a point with what they're saying? Could that be really helpful in the long run? Again, rather than taking it as, as something negative towards you, and thinking about, you know, as I was talking about asking for help, If you don't have the answer and you don't ask for help, you could be slowing things down for everybody else and then putting everybody else's schedule out of whack.
So, you know, there, there is often this myth that, you know, speaking up or seeking help is a sign of weakness, which I say is absolute rubbish. Seeking up and, speaking up and seeking help is a sign of strength. You know, admitting that, you know what, I don't have all the answers.
And I'm happy to ask for help. Yes, it does take a lot to do that because we struggle with this internally, that particularly, you know, if we are high achievers and we are coming from, you know, this perfectionistic culture where, oh my gosh, we, we would never ask for help. We need to start making it OK to ask for help.
And each of us can take the lead in that. We can all do. Our own bit, you know, and ask for help.
Again, it may just be, look, I'm pretty sure we've got everything. Does someone want to just double check? You know, have we done this?
Have we done this? Can someone just cross-check with, with me to make sure we've covered everything? You know, there is no shame in doing that whatsoever.
You know, in fact, it may, may be good, or if you're not sure about something, it's like, oh gosh, I've never seen this before. Has anyone else ever seen this? You know, And what does everybody think?
A bit like on the, emergency hospital shows, you know, where they all come into agreement, you know, where one person say, Look, I think we need to call it. Is everyone in agreement, or has anyone else got anything else to add? You know, it's that sort of thing.
You're just asking, you know, again, for people's opinions or asking them for help. And again, there shouldn't be any shame in doing that. We need to make that like the normal thing to do.
Sharing how you're feeling with other people, again, making sure that you trust the people that you're sharing it with, so that might be a mentor, it could be somebody in your family, it could be a friend, it could be a co-worker, but just, you know, sharing to say, you know what, I'm actually feeling like a bit of a phoney right now, you know, and you probably will be surprised that they might go, You know what, me too. I feel just like that, and I'm so glad you said that. You know, being able to share in that, remembering, you know, 70% of people, again, both men and women are going to experience this at some point.
So it is really, really common. Which is exactly what I said. I beat myself to it.
Again, knowing that this is experienced by the majority of other people, it is a normal experience, particularly for people who have gone, like, to university or done that extra study and that are coming out, but it's not. Only for people who have gone to university or done that extra study. Again, it's anybody can be affected by it.
But typically, you know, when you are put out into these situations, it's like, oh my gosh, I have to make decisions. I have to take responsibility. People are expecting me to have all the answers, so I need to be able to respond to that.
And what if I don't have all the answers? So again, it's quite normal. You know, even now, I mean, I've been doing my job for a lot of years now, you know, and I like to think that I'm pretty well versed in stuff that's going on within the industry, because it is, it is my work, it is my Career, but I will admit, I don't know everything.
I don't always have all the answers, you know, and I'll have people asking me questions that I don't know the answer to, but I'm only going to make a fool out of myself if I try and talk my way out of it and make out that I know. You know, personally, I think, I get more respect by saying, you know what, I don't have the answer to that, but that's really interesting. And it is something that I might look into.
You know, I have no problem at all doing that, because again, it shows that I'm still normal. I don't have all the answers. I have a lot of answers, but I don't have all the answers.
And sometimes, you know, I use that as a learning experience to say, this is really good. This is an opportunity. For me to actually learn more.
You know, and I love asking whether it's my colleagues or my clients, you know, so what does it really feel like when you're doing this and that? Lead me through that. You know, I've actually been through a euthanasia of one of my cats, while I was in the middle of doing my doctoral research, which was the irony was just, quite, yes, ironic.
If I say that, And it was a vet I hadn't actually been to before. I had to go in an emergency situation. And, you know, he's there prepping to put my cat to sleep.
And I'm talking to him about my research, saying, I'm actually researching this. So this is really weird, but what's going on for you right now? What are you thinking in between me crying between, you know, obviously losing the cat and, you know, he was, he was a Absolutely beautiful, that he was so caring and compassionate.
And so it was really good for me because I got so much insight into what was going on for him during this moment. And, you know, in a really weird way, I think it helped him because it sort of took the focus off what he was doing, because he knew that I Understood what he was doing, and that, I, you know, I'm not gonna say I was OK with what he was doing, cause I didn't want to lose my cat, but I was accepting of what was happening, and I, I was OK with the fact that this is what had to happen. So again, you know, like, we can learn so much by asking questions, you know, and I love, I love just getting that extra knowledge and And looking and getting that deeper insight into things, because again, it helps me learn and it helps me become more educated so that I can help more people in the long run.
If you are struggling, you know, consider speaking to, you know, a registered psychologist, or it could be another, and I say qualified health professional, I imagine it's the same there in the UK as it is here in Australia. We have counsellors, counselling per se isn't a regulated industry, at least not here in Australia. So anybody can call themselves a counsellor.
So I would just caution that if you are talking to a counsellor, just make sure that they are experienced and qualified. There are some amazing counsellors out there. So I'm not gonna say that you could only see a psychologist or a psychiatrist for counselling, because that's not the case.
There are some really, really good counsellors, and equally, they're, you know, just because someone's a psychologist, it doesn't make them a good counsellor either. So Just making sure, you know, that if you do need to, to speak to someone, usually go and speak with your GP, your doctor first, and talk to them, you know, find out what the procedures are for, you know, whether you need to have a referral to a psychologist or whether you can just contact the psychologist directly. Here in Australia, you can, you don't have to have a referral unless you're using our Medicare system, which is the, the, like your NHS.
But just to be able to talk to somebody professional who understands what may be going on, to help you work through those things that are going on, to help you to deal with these sorts of things. And, you know, if you are struggling and you don't know where to start, please You are most welcome to reach out to me directly. I have no issue with that at all, and I'm more than happy to point you in the right direction.
So please don't be afraid to do that. I know we're on the other side of the world, but with the beauty of technology, we can essentially be in the same room, even if it's through our computer, to do that, you know, and I would rather be able to guide you than you're suffering in silence and not, you know, being able to get that support that you may need. And don't let those thoughts of doubt control your actions.
Just because you're thinking it, it doesn't mean it's real. Your thoughts are just words. They're just stories your mind tells you.
We don't want to let those control your actions. And you are in control of your actions. You're in control.
Of your behaviour. It's, we just need to be able to separate, the thoughts from the action, which again, you know, I, I cover that in, in different things, particularly acceptance and commitment therapy, or some of you may prefer cognitive behavioural therapy. There's lots of interventions to do that.
So really quickly, striking a power pose for 2 minutes, you know, stand there with your hands on your hips like Wonder Woman. Again, and just, you know, just doing that can make you feel really, really good, you know, and I guess sort of powerful if you need a little bit of a boost. Giving up on that need to be perfect.
There is no such thing as perfectionism. Be mindful, check in with yourself, you know, and just be honest with yourself, you know, how am I going? How am I thinking?
How am I feeling it right now? What's going on for me? Own your successes, you know, and this is one of the ways to build our resiliency as well.
When we can own that success, because we can build our resiliency from the things that are going well and from those successes, as well as the things that might be quite traumatic. Have a look. Don't compare yourself to others.
This is something we always do, and we always want everyone's opinion, and we put other people's opinions, you know, before ourselves. You know, our own opinion should be the most important to us, not somebody else's. So don't compare yourself to other people because it's really not helpful if we're doing that comparison that, oh, they've got this and I haven't.
You know, or like big noting ourselves, well, I've done this, and they haven't, so therefore, I'm better than them. You know, we, we don't want to compare that, you know, we're all doing the best that we can. Practising gratitude, 3 good things and accepting praise, 3 good things is essentially, at the end of each day, write down like 3 good things about you, or 3 good things you've done today, 3 good things you've seen happening today, because we want to start putting the focus into the positive stuff.
And the positive stuff deserves just as much attention and just as much energy as the not so good stuff, but we tend to divert to that worst case scenario, because that's like Our survival mechanism, taking us back to that fight flight response. So practising gratitude, instead of complaining about what we don't have, and what we don't want, let's focus on what we do have and what we do want instead. Accepting praise, you know, all you have to do is say thank you.
If someone says, thank you so much, you've been absolutely amazing. Just say thank you. You don't have to make an excuse.
Oh, thank you, but you know, it was really this. Just accept it and just practise saying thank you. The positivity ratio.
So this is a, an evidence-based, strategy that's come from a positive psychologist called Barbara Fred Fredrickson in the US. This notion of 3 to 1. So for every not so good thing or negative thing, this theory says we need to find 3 good things or 3 positive things to to counteract that, so that that negative thing doesn't start affecting us in a negative way.
So for every maybe cranky customer that comes in, it's very typical for us to buy into that and just focus on that, and we pay all of our attention to that. And we disregard, you know, the 10 or 15 or 20 amazing customers we've had coming in today. So for, you know, every cranky customer, just using that example, let's find 3 positive things that have happened.
You know, that your co-workers might have brought muffins in, another client maybe, you know, brought in a card and said thank you, and maybe brought some chocolates in. And, you know, you've got a long weekend coming up this weekend, and you're, you know, looking forward to just being able to do something really fun, you know, even though you might be stuck at home. But just being able to, you know, be away from the work and catch up on some study or catch up on some reading or some hobbies or something like that.
So again, just counteract that 3 to 1. Have You know, so whether you do this in a team environment, but just, you know, celebrating those successes, having people there who have got your back, who are gonna be cheering you on, rather than putting you down. Again, really quick question here, the second poll question just before we start to wrap it up, who does imposter syndrome affect?
Is it both women and men, women only, men or adolescents only? OK, just launching the pole there. And hopefully, hopefully I gave you a few cues there.
Sorry, I'm just, I'm just waiting. We've got, yeah, 80% have voted and all of them have said both men and women. Excellent.
Well done. They've been listening. They've been listening, which is good.
Well done, everyone. As well. But it is.
I mean, considering it started out with, you know, it was diagnosed originally for women, but now, you know, it's recognised that both women and men. So, yeah, thank you for that. So, and just to wrap up, you know, a couple of, couple of quotes here that, you know, have come, come from people that you may not expect who have experienced imposter syndrome.
You know, Tina Fey, the comedian, Dr. Chan, you know, from the World Health organisation. Again, you know, struggling with impostor syndrome.
We've got Michelle Pfeiffer, the actress, Kate Winslet, the actress, Maya Angelou, or the late Maya Angelou, which is a really a big surprise, I think, with Maya, because so many people love her writings and looked, you know, and found her so inspiring, and motivating with what she's done. But again, it can affect anybody. So I really hope that you found that informative.
Again, you know, looking at this as an indication, and the more of these things that you can relate to, being honest with yourself, but then also taking a proactive step and what you can do about it, you know, reaching out and seeking that support, to be able to start being proactive and looking after yourself so that you can really thrive, in this industry and in this profession that You know, you, you have got the skills, you have got the abilities and the qualifications to be doing it. It's just having that belief in yourself, that you can, you can do this. And as I said earlier, if you need to reach out, you know, I'm happy for, to, to, for, Andy Lewis or the, the webinar vet team to put you in touch with me if you need to get in touch.
I, I have no problem with. That at all. Normally I have my website up on the slide, but this is a different slide as well.
But it's just under positive psych solutions. It's on Facebook and Instagram as well. So if you do need to reach out, please feel, feel welcome to do that.
I'm, you know, more than happy to help point you in the right direction. So thank you again, yeah, for listening, giving up your evening as well. I hope you've enjoyed the presentation.
Brilliant. Thank you very much, Nadine. I'll start off with a, a very nice comment you've had from Claire.
I just wanted to say thank you so much. I had no idea this was so common. I've suspected I have this for some time.
This will help me, but also will change the way I interact with my colleagues too. Maybe they feel the same. Thanks again.
Fabulous. So thank you, Claire, for that. And then we have a couple of questions, oh, more questions coming through as we speak.
First one's, anonymous. What happens if you're the boss and your staff expect you to know everything, make no mistakes in HR, and the profession encourages, encourages this thinking with no support for the boss. I think it comes back to, and dare I say it, it's taking that responsibility and leading from the top.
You know, like if you are the boss or whether you're the manager, it's leading by example, because the reality is, nobody has all the answers. Nobody can, can be expected to be able to be absolutely perfect. Perfect.
And I appreciate, you know, with the comment coming in that if the profession is expecting this, you know, the powers that be that are expecting this, but the reality is if we keep trying to perform to these unrealistic expectations, it's just gonna start wearing us down, you know, physically and psychologically. So it's being honest, you know, with your team. And being open, and there is absolutely no shame in that.
Like, I know that people look up to you. Same as in my profession, people look up to me and expect me to have all the answers, but I have to be honest to say, I don't have all of the answers. You know, let's work this out together, because it starts at the top.
You know, it's a top down process, but it's also a bottom up process that we all need, you know, we're all in this together. We all need to be able to recognise that. And, you know, and if, whether it's, you know, you're, Your vet surgeon's board or you know, your licencing authorities, you know, that are, are coming in and again, expecting this, this is that point, and I know it's gonna feel very foreign, and probably freak people out, but where we need to start taking that stand, you know, and we're, we are making inroads in that to here, to it here in Australia, but they're, they're the kind of things that if you Feel that it's falling on deaf ears.
You know, this is where we need to get our associations involved. We need to start getting that advocacy happening to be able to direct them. And I hear, you know, I've been invited by, by our government, and one of our departments, to be involved in a lot of this stuff.
So they're starting to listen and starting to take it seriously, but, you know, obviously through, through the charity. If you feel that, It's not being addressed. By all means get in touch, because if I, if there's stuff that I can do, you're not going to be the only person who's struggling with this, and I'm talking about obviously at that higher level, like with your staff, that's something that is within your control to do something about, to be able to again, lead by example, to set the way and sort of say to them, look, The, you know, I know you expect me to have all the answers, but I don't.
Let's talk to somebody and let's try and get the help that we need to be able to give us those answers. You know, because again, people are gonna be looking to you as the leader. So you need to lead by example and be setting the way and making it OK, because if you're having this, you know, persona or I don't know if putting on an act is, is the right way to say it or not, but, Then you're sort of enhancing that same thing and reinforcing this need to have all the answers and this need to, you know, be able to be perfect at whatever level and, and have all of that support.
When you can demonstrate that, OK, that's not realistic, then that's when people start being reinforced and starting to reduce that stigma that's around there. And as I was gonna say, if it's at the Higher level, then please feel free, you know, cause I'm happy to look into that and sort of see what we can do from our perspective, because, you know, we haven't really, ventured into the UK yet, but obviously it's, you know, it's where I'm from. Being able to look into that and say, OK, well, what can we do to get some advocacy happening, you know, and I'm happy to, to sort of go, go down that path and have those discussions if that would be helpful.
Yeah, I think, I just to add to that, if you don't mind, you already talked about, you know, just do your best. And I think that's a, a, a very good mantra to have in this situation and just admit, as you said, I don't know. And, and, and on that note, I'm sure you're familiar with Steve Peter's chimp paradox work.
No, 00, OK. Well, in that case then, a book, a book recommendation for you, yeah, Professor Steve Peters, based in the UK, Chimp Paradox, I think it's quite a famous book. And I've heard him speak a lot of times, and his mantra is, I, I, I never regret anything because I always do my best.
Yes. And if my best isn't good enough, that's your problem, not mine. Yeah.
So he's very, sharp on that, but nevertheless, it, it helped me with some of the issues I had. I was saying, well, yeah, I've done my best. So, so yeah, we've got another comment from Julie.
Thank you very much. Definitely got a fear of failure, but working on looking at challenges is a positive. Yeah, and then, yeah, absolutely.
A couple more questions then from Hillary. Can a strong character who is popular and who has impostor syndrome cause problems for someone they think is better than them? Even if that person has tried to help them, can they misinterpret the help as criticism?
Yeah, absolutely, because they're gonna be on the defensive. You know, because again, if they're, they're putting on, again, this characteristic that, you know, obviously they're very strong and confident, and a lot of people do that. If you think back to that, you know, the bullying mentality, whether it's at school or in workplaces, people tend to bully other people because they want to take the focus off themselves and put the focus on someone else because they don't want to accept or admit what's going on with themselves.
So it's easier for me to be critical of somebody else or put that focus onto someone else than to accept that maybe I don't have all the answers or I'm not good enough for myself. And so it can come across as a criticism, because particularly if they're, they're high achieving, they might already be struggling, and then it could come across as reinforcing what they're already thinking or how they're already negatively thinking about themselves. But it could also be that, well, hang on.
You know, we're not supposed to be looking at me. That's why we're putting the focus on you, because I don't want anyone to see that I'm struggling here myself. So again, yeah, it could be that persona.
But, you know, I think most of us, if, if there's a criticism, we do automatically get defensive and take it as a criticism, even if it's said in a helpful way. That's why, as I said earlier, it needs to be done constructively or assertively, you know, in the manner that it's said. I hope that answers that question.
OK, yeah, thanks. Another comment, I'm sorry, I don't know how to pronounce the first name. I think it's Evala.
But they've said, what I usually say to my interns is do your best with the resources you've been given because sometimes you can be better, it's just the setting. Absolutely, and that, that reminds me of the the, the story, you remember the plane that went on the Hudson River in New York and they did the movie about it with Tom Hanks as the pilot, and apparently, you know, as the, the plane was sort of going down, he was saying to his co-pilot, tell me what I do have. So it wasn't about, OK, I don't have this, I don't have this, I don't have a runway, I don't have landing or whatever.
It was, what do I have? And let me work with that. So I love that, you know, that, that, comment has just been made about that.
Excellent. You touched on the, the gratitude thing, 3 good things. Just a comment from me actually.
I use a journal. It's called the best self Journal, and there are lots of other journals around there, but they actually have a morning and an evening gratitude as you, as you're writing your journal. So, if people want to get into the habit of the gratitude, just a recommendation is to write.
Absolutely, absolutely. And you can even like the secret, you know, the, the TV show and all the books, the secret all about law of attraction. They actually have a gratitude journal, like a, a special book that's just a gratitude journal that, you know, you, you write in it every day, whether it's first thing in the morning, you know, and at least just or you don't even need a special journey.
You can use a notepad if you need to. But just, you know, write down each day 10 things you're grateful for, down to, you know, I'm grateful that I have clean water so I can get a drink of water out of the sink and I don't have to pump it from a well or drink dirty water like in, you know, some other countries, or I have knives and forks to eat my food. You know, again, it doesn't have to be like, Oh, I'm so grateful I have this mansion, and, you know, all of that.
You know, that's, again, they can be these small things. You know, there's always something to be grateful for. Absolutely, yeah.
Small things build up, don't they? So, last question I think we have, this one's anonymous. As a boss, how can you help your staff with this syndrome?
I think being open, being honest, like sharing some of this information, again, you know, like that statistic is one that stands out to me, 70%. The more we talk about it, the more we reduce the stigma and we normalise the process of people. People feeling this way and feeling that they can talk to someone about it, because the more open we are with them, the more we can help them with it.
And again, you know, as I was saying before with the other question, it's like leading by example. So, you know, being open and saying, look, I'm just gonna ask, has anyone come across this before? Or, you know, how's everyone feeling today?
I'm feeling like a bit of an imposter, if I have to be honest. You know, but normalising those conversations and If they have identified that they are struggling with it, or, you know, if you do have that conversation, obviously, you know, don't discuss it in front of everybody else, but maybe pull them aside and, you know, just say, I've just noticed, you know, there's some of these things going on. Are you feeling OK?
Because it's quite common to feel this way, you know, and then guiding them as to how to get that support, you know, pointing them in the right direction or saying, OK, look, maybe Maybe go and speak with your GP first, and, you know, you might need to go and talk to a psychologist or a psychiatrist or a counsellor, or, you know, someone that is equipped to be able to help them with this, just leading them in the right direction, what resources are there. I think, you have Vet Life there in the UK with the self-help line. I'm not sure if you have to be a member though to access it.
I know like our, Australian Vet Association over here has a free helpline, but you have to be a member of the AVA to access that. But we have like Lifeline and Beyond Blue, we have like a lot of those crisis lines as well, you know, that are available. But I think, yeah, VetLife UK has a, crisis support number as well, just as that first point of contact, you know, just to say I'm struggling, I don't know where to go or what to do.
Or again, if you're not, not sure what to do and you need, you know, a little bit of extra guidance, yes, please feel free to get in touch with me, as well. You know, we can, there might be some more specific stuff there that's going on as well that we could address. Brilliant, fantastic way to end there.
Thank you very much, Nadine. You're welcome. So I just again like to thank MWI Animal Health for sponsoring and Nadine, that was an absolute tour de force, fantastic presentation.
Great answers to the questions as well. So thank you to everybody for attending. Please stay safe and we look forward to seeing you on the next practise management webinar.
Thanks again, Nadine.
