Good evening everybody and welcome to tonight's webinar. My name is Bruce Stevenson and I have the honour and pleasure of chairing tonight's webinar. Little bit of housekeeping for those of you that haven't been with us before.
If you have got any questions for our speaker, please just move your mouse over the screen. You'll see a little control bar appears. It's normally at the bottom and it's in black.
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This is all about learning, so feel free and as I say, we will discuss them at the end. So tonight, we are very lucky to have Otto with us. Otto graduated in 1972 from the Faculty of Veterinary Science in Budapest in Hungary.
In 1985, he received a doctorate in philosophy. In 1994, he became a full professor of the Department of Obstetrics. And reproduction at the University of Veterinary Science in Budapest.
And then in 2004, he became a diplomat of the European College of Bovine Health Management. In 2019, he became the professor emeritus. So Otto, welcome to the webinar vet and it's over to you.
Oh, thank you very much. Good evening everybody. It is a great honour for me.
To share our experience with you this evening. So the topic of my presentation is the importance of monitoring the onset of calving to decrease the prevalence of dystopia and reproductive failures in dairy farms. Right, yes, outline of my presentation.
Will, will be the importance of monitoring the prevalence of stillbirths in dairy farms, physiological changes of fatality-based pos during calving, prediction of the onset of calving in dairy farms. Effect of Aia under them and foetus to be born effect of dystonia on them and foetus to be born and effect of dystopian reproductive failures. So these 6 topics I try to.
Summarise Our experience in this, topics. I have a short introduction as far as you know, there was a, a great change. From the early 50s regarding the milk production and because Around that time, it was about 4000 kilogrammes and now it is more than 10,000 kilogrammes .
And the parallel with this. There was a, a relatively greater decrease in the, in the fertility rate of conception rate. And for that reason, Really we need intensive reproductive work in the farm in order to be able to reach optimal calving interval.
In this respect, there are A lot of different tasks for us. Today, this evening, I will only deal with the importance of monitoring carbon to decrease stillbirth rate and relating with these things. But there are other tasks as well like importance of monitoring postpartum metabolic disease is not only monitoring, but, treat them as well in daily courses, importance of diagnosing postpartum uterine diseases in daily courses.
And the importance of accurate detection in daily calls, importance of determining the optimal time for artificial insemination, and finally importance of diagnosis, diagnosing pregnancy and pregnancy loss in daily cold. So we have a lot of tasks. Rela related with the reproduction.
But today, . I will deal only the importance of monitoring the prevalence of stillbirths in dairy farms. As far as you know, perinatal mortality.
Means that, we may lose a mature calf, which means that the gas station period is longer than 260 days. We may lose this mature calf during calving and in the 1st 24 hours of light. There are some reports saying that maybe during the 1st 48 hours of life.
Usually, there are 4 to 7% perinatal mortality, the prevalence rate. And about half of the total calf losses relating with this perinatal mortality. And in the background, Direct and indirect asphyxia, maybe the, the reason for perinatal mortality.
There are some studies saying about 75%, others only about 59%, that in the background, we may find the asphyxia. I started my PhD the work already in the early 80s and at that time, you can see from this slide that in Germany, Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden, Finland, the Prevalent rate of stillbirths in the Western European involving hays and cows. In some countries, were quite good but in other countries was already in, in case of heavy account it was close to 10% or even higher.
I made the . Collection of data in Hungary as well. Using more than 150,000 carvings in Haifa carvings, we had a different crosses.
I don't mentioning here the different crosses, but you can see that . The prevalence rate for stillbirths. During heifa carving for male cars was somewhat higher than for female cars, which is well known because of the difference between the, the weight and duration of, of gas station.
But we had also some process. Which was higher than 10%. We check this data for co-calving as well and Around 5%, 5% to 7%, the, the prevalence rate was.
At that time. And there are some new study showing us that This Collection of data was about 9. 2009, showing us that in Canada, Netherlands, New Zealand, United Kingdom, USA, and Australia.
The stillbirth rate, didn't, decrease at all. So in some countries, it became higher, higher than 10%. We also checked the Hungarian dairy farm about $18 and Ho and Friesian dairy cows.
And the, the prevalence rate was 7.3% altogether, but there were years with the 8%, close to 8% or less than 8% and higher than 10%. So, .
Even in Hungary, the prevalence of stillbirths rate did not decrease at all. So we may say that all over the world, the stillbirth rate is is still very high, so we have to deal with this problem. In order to be able to understand what's going on during carving, I would like to show you some slides about The operation.
And When we, we inserted a catheter into the arterial femoralis of a, of a, a foetus. About 3 weeks before calving and by this day by this operation, we were able to take samples from the, from the car from the foetus and from the dam as well. So.
By this way, we will be able to follow the physiological changes of aid-based violence during the calving. So here you can see that we opened the abdomen and then pulled out the uterine horn together with the hind leg, and after this we They try to prepare the arteriofemoralis and inserted the cot. Into the arteriofemoral and the end of the cot was able to reach the aorta.
So during the experiment I was able to take samples from the aorta. This experiment after all was made in Utrecht in the Netherlands. And here is our them with the cots one cot for the foetus, one cot for the dam, and the 3rd cotator we were able to take samples from the amniotic ac as well.
And after, I took the, took the, the samples just before carving and during calving as well. As far as we know from the the human practise. The disturbance of utter or placenta circulation will occur after rupturing the, the amniotic sac and the olanoid sac and .
The During the, the uterine contraction and in each case, hypoxia and because of the reduced CO2 elimination, hypercapnia will develop. And then the degree of hyperia will be decreased at that time, there is a very interesting. Adaptation, then think.
Which we can call as an oxygen conserving adaptation. It means that During the hypoxia. At the very last, until the very last second.
The foetus will get Oxygen through the, the bladder, especially the, the heart and the brain until the very last second. On the other part of the body. And there is a so-called was of construction.
And in order to be able to provide the the remaining oxygen for the, for the brain and the heart. And by this way, an air of glycolysis will develop and all together. Aerobic lycolysis and hypercoia vehicle causes metabolic and respiratory acidosis.
So, in each case, this will develop. However, the degree of the metabolic and respiratory oxidosis is another issue. You will see later on.
So here I am trying to show you the oxygen conserving adaptation, all of the organs, . And even the, the legs and the hind legs, complex, there will be lot of conscious and only the heart and the, the brain will get the, the. Oxygen until the very last second.
And you know quite well the The man is aerobic and I is is that during hypoxia, lactic acid will be formed. And with this less energy will be produced as well. So, here is a case.
The red column showing us the maternal pH value. And the other the blue columns showing us the fertile. PH values.
So Normally, the, the maternal pH values about 7.45 and the third time is about 7.35.
And here you can see that 20 minutes before. B. It was still normal.
So during the last 20 seconds, excuse me, 20 minutes, there was a drop in the pH value. However, this pH values was still physiological because above 7.2.
Still, the, the acidosis is physiological. And after birth, very rapidly, this, PH value will be increased and And in our case, about 3 hours later it was reached the original 7.35 value.
Regarding the PCO2 values. There was some decrease already between -120 to -20 minutes before, . Births, but This was not elevation.
But the elevation started again like. In the case of pH, here was elevation between minus 20 minutes and between births. And that was some kind of innovation.
And Here you can see the, the, the maternal PCO2 values. And here you can see also that after 12 hours, even the, the PCO2 value is still high. Which means that it is very interesting that in the, in the, the newborn cancers, the metabolic acidosis will be compensated relatively quickly.
1 hour or 4 hours within 1 hour, 4 hours, maximum 6 hours, but the respiratory acidosis, the PCO2 value will be not compensated until 24 hours of life or even 48 hours of life. This is very special. For the new burn calf.
It is true for all kinds of other large animals with the exception of puppies. Because in the past it's just the, the opposite. In the puppies, the, the repiro aidosis will be compensated quickly, relatively quickly, while the metabolic acidosis will need more time.
So regarding the PO, PO2 values. It was quite low, in normal circumstances as well. You can see here about 3 kilopascal.
Comparing the 12 kg car in the, in the car. And This, decrease, started already about 120 minutes before birth, there was a small decrease . And after birth, of course, it was already this increased the value, but it took some time.
About 12 hours to be very close to the, the maternal. Be to value, sir. And here is the base access values showing us that.
Normally, in the, in the, the dia, it was close to zero, the base excess value, however, 2 hours before births started to decrease already, and 20 minutes before birth and after birth, it was less than 6 mil minus 6 millimo per litre. It means that This is already expressed aidosis category. Regarding the basic access values, and this was compensated relatively quickly because almost within one hour.
They were able to, the bases value was able to reach the minus 3 millimo per litre. Value which is what are the normal value. So, by this way.
We can say that . In normal circumstances. There is no real change in the In the acid-based balances.
Which means that the majority of newborn calves may have a physiological acidosis, which means that the pH value is less. Higher than 7.2, and the base excess values is higher than minus 3 million per litre.
However, when The hypoxia will be . Decrease them? Or the degree of high pressure will be increased.
At that time, thepehazine, haemorrhages may develop and this haemorrhages may cause The problems for the, the foetus to be born. Most of, of these cases, the foetus will die. Here you can see extensive ecchymotic haemorrhages in the epicardium of a tebird cancer.
And me hemorrhagic ecchymosis in the plenary of a steel burn. On the sclera and the eyelids. And severe mining congestion in steel burned cars.
And a large hematoma on the spinal cord at the base of the cerebellum. And it is also very important to emphasise that . If our animal needs some surgical intervention at that time, we have to wait or the farmer has to wait for, for the vet.
But during this time, it is very important to push back the head of the foetus if it is already in the pelvic cavity, because if we will not do this at that time, we may have similar cases why we had here a pronounced thematus infiltration of the tongue and Bua region. However, in this case we were able to compensate the oxy doses. However, finally, we were not able to, to protect the life of this calf.
Because, he was not able to, to, take a breath, without any problems. So finally we, we lost, this, newer car. So in this respect, One of the most important things in the farmer to predict the onset of calving in time.
Especially in large dairy farms. According to our experience in Hungary, the average is about 500. A and Frisian.
Cos, but there are 100, 2000 daily calls in the phone as well. So according to our experience, I think this is the most important thing that whether they are able To discover whether The dam is already In carving. Or not.
There are several protocols to predict the exact time of culling, like measuring the hormonal changes, progesterone estrogens. Evaluating clinical signs like relaxation of pelvic ligaments, body temperature. A decrease in body temperature, determining the electrolyte concentration of mammal ant secretion, recording feeding and rumination behaviour before calving.
And on-farm devices, inclinometers and accelerometers. So we have a lot of different things, but In those cases when we need a laboratory examination at that time, we cannot use this method in the farmer. For that reason, .
The unarmed devices. Are playing a very important role in order to be able to, to predict. The exact time.
The onset of Calvic. There are some devices. Which can be purchased like tail raising and behaviour changes we can detect this .
We may use the abdominal beds to monitor uterine contraction or heart rates, or we may have devices fixed, fixed in the vagina or at the wolvalips or we may use the intravaginal thermometers. Day raising and behaviour changes, . Here you can see the, the device .
We are so Check this, but unfortunately, our experience with this device was not not so good for that reason, . I cannot suggest it's too heavy for a, for a cow. Abdominal that is another solution and .
The camera system is also can help us device fixed at the wol wolver. Maybe it is good for the mare. You can see here the mare, but maybe it is not good for the, for the cow.
Because this device may irritate. The animal and, and in this respect maybe the intravaguar thermometers can be used relatively easily in the farm. We used this French device.
And before inserting the wet fauna, of course, we, we cleaned the, the vulva and around the wool and that's infected and we use the applicator for the, for the thermometer. There were two types, the, the white was available for the cow and the, the, the blue ones was available for the heifers. They were somewhat smaller.
So we inserted this and after insertion. The, the thermometer registers, we register the temperature rise and we send the SMS message. And After that We send again an SMS message when the car will be expected within 48 hours.
And finally, when the Hoonto exec will appear in Daruva and of course by this way, the thermometer will be expelled and this will give us a The final message that the the was expelled already. In the farmer, we evaluated our, our cals by this comingcorum. Which is score one, which means that Our animal did not need any kind of assistance.
In in case of scores 2, One person gave some assistance. In score 3, more than 1 person. Was given the given the assistance.
Or assistant use the calf puller and in the case of score 4, caesarean section was a banner. Here you can see the pasture-based host and frees and cars and this data is coming from Ireland, . And about 70% of the cases, the animals did not need any kind of obstetrical assistance.
About 20% of the cases, only one. He attendant gave some assistance and in case of. This those In scores 3 and 4, there were some, some cases, but less than altogether less than 5%.
And here you can see the, the rate for calving assistance and dystopia in case of airfare carving and co-calving, co-carving, of course, . in case of cocas, the dams need less assistance than. Than in case of hayer carving.
We also checked the the, the calming in a Hungarian dairy farmer. And about 90% of the cases we had normal carving. And about 5% of the cases we had twin carving and 3, about 3%, we have dystopia.
But in case of normal calving, the prevalence rate for stillbirths was only 5%, but in case of stream carving and in case of distortionate prevalence rate was increased. This is another study, when we use this thermometer, we examined about almost 300 animals. But in this case, The The rate for score one was only about 35% and about 40% of the cases, one person gave some assistance during carving.
And in case as It score 3 It was about 25%. About Almost 20% of the cases, 2%. And about 6% of the cases, 3 or more of caster was used in this case.
So about 6% of the cases, the animals in this one had dystopia. But the stillbirth rate was only 3.7%.
So it was quite loyal week. We monitored our animals a carving and co-calving. And It was very interesting that in the case of A carving when we use the, the thermometer, about 60% of the cases there was no need for obstetrical assistance, but in case of control animal.
But this rate was only 35%, so it was a significant difference between these two groups. And of course the assistance increased when only one person was taking part in the The kind of income and Relatively, even in the control group, the The Incidence of dystopia was relatively less. Regarding co-calving and calvin score, again, about 60% of the cases, there was no need for obstetrical assistance in case when we use the, the thermometer.
But, in the control group, again, there was a significant difference between these two groups, and it was true for the, the score to group as well. Stillbirth rate. In case of of using the thermometer, in case of safer, it was less than 2%.
In case of course, it was a little bit higher than 2%. So again, there was a huge difference regarding the stillbirth rate in the control group and in the In the monitored group. We also checked the, the prevalence rate for retained fertile membranes and clinical matris and again, we were able to detect a significant difference between The two groups, .
So, the prevalence rate was less than 10% for it infect our membranes and even for clinical metritis or close to 10% for clinical metritis. However, in the control group, it was significantly higher. So after this, I would like to deal with the, with the, the effect of autopsy and dystonia on them.
We have done some some experiment, . This dairy farm had about 1000. Hostile Friesian cows and .
The Before carving them. The The animals were about 3 weeks before carving the animals were in the group. Waiting for calving and we closed this one part of this panel.
And was the experimental and. And if an animal needed some kind of surgical assistance at that time. The animal was put into the maternity pen.
So, We, I mean the, the, the. The heart rate in our course during before calving and during calving the last 96 hours prepartum and about 48 hours postpartum we use all our equine heart rate monitor for this purpose. And we put our animals into the experimental plan.
We had 4 or 5 animals during a period in this part, so these animals were not disturbed at all. And we had finally we had 4 groups. The first group unassisted carving in individual panel.
The second group unassisted carving in our group panel. And the 3rd group assisted carving plus professional assistance after 70 minutes after the I'm near the exact appearance I 65 minutes after appearance. And assisted carving plus inefficient assistant assistance.
At the onset of C Calvin Crest this causes were moved immediately into the maternity pen. So this animal was moved into maternity pen immediately and this cargo systems were made there. So we had 4 groups.
We checked the heart rate and The normalised power of the high frequency band and the ratio of the low frequency and high frequency band by this way. We could, . Measuring the heart state, we could evaluate the sympathetic tone.
Like the high frequency, by the high frequency when the parasympathetic tone, and by the, the ratio of the low frequency, high frequency when the sympathetic tone. And here you can see that when the, the assistance was in the calving pen and it was inefficient type of assistance at that time, a high heart rate was increased significantly. As you can see here as well in the data and The parasympathy tone, the high frequency band was also.
Also increased the, in the, in the individual pan and in, in group panel also when there was no need for obstetrical assistance, however, in case of distal, it was very low, significantly very low. Again and The, the sympathtic tone parameters. And the age ratio was again higher.
Already in the, in the In case of dystoev and This oxetic assistance made in the individual pan. And, and inefficient way. So this examination confirmed us that Carving especially dystonia means a real stress for, for them.
We also examined rumination time and ruinna temperature as possible predictors of this do in daily calls. We use this rumen balls for measuring pH and temperature and ruminate. For, recording rumination time.
And we had two groups, Norma carving. A combination of no assistance like assistance by one person and this toxic car incoming assistance by two or more persons. And here you can see again that in case of dystonia, the rumination time was decreased significantly.
And room and temperature was also some. Some decrease already. Before carving.
It's somewhat, the decrease was, somewhat greater in case of normal carving before calving, but after, after carving it was greater in this toxic carving. And room pH value, it was increased. Before calving a little bit and after it was decreased.
In both groups, but there was a A somewhat greater tendency can be seen in case of a normal. Our conclusions after this experiment was that The effects of dystopia. Have some effects on rumination activity around carving, continuous monitoring of changes, rumination time that chole seems to be useful in the early detection of causing the higher risk of calving difficulties.
Impaired rumination activity, this toxic caused within the 1st 4 day after calming highlights the importance feeding management of courses that have had a difficult carving and. Tripartum drops in reticuluminar temperature underscored the promising value of this parameter in the early detection of this to. Further studies should focus on the various effects of obstetrical conditions and rumination and ratical human characters are considered the severity of discosia as well.
After all, we checked the effect of calming process on the outcome of delivery and postpartum has a very positive unassisted and assisted calming. Again, we had 4 groups. The first group unassisted carving in the individual panel.
The second group unassisted carving in our group pan in the experimental panel. And assisted carving with the appropriated and obstetrical assistance, the third group and assisted carving with inappropriate time obstetrical assistance. So we can see that there is a huge increase when The animal is disturbed during calving and even the prevalence of dystopia increased not only the light dystopia, meal dystopia, but the severe dystopia as well.
The first group there was no severe dystopia, but what even the animal needed some kind of obserticosis at that time it was increased and In the fourth group there are significantly higher the severe dystopia. We checked the The duration between appearing the amniotic sac and the, the burst, the end of births and again it was longer when the animals were disturbed. And fertile hoofs upping the fetals and and between the births again, it was longer and duration, the calm it was also longer.
Regarding the prevalence rate for retained plot centre was significantly higher again showing us when the animal is disturbed when the animal is stressed at that time this prevalence rate will be increased, and this is true for the wolina laceration as well. In our group, in the, the group and when the animals were not disturbed at that time comparing with, we had no problem at all. We checked the body weight of the newborn calves.
There was no difference. The vitality was, of course, lower the vitality, and the stillbirth ratio was significantly higher again in our group. There was no stillbirth at all comparing with the 7 22%.
There is a, study showing us the systematic early obstetric assistance at carving. In case of a score one. The second column shows us the early assistance .
And it It showing us that we increase the, the prevalence rate of severe dystopia as well. And here showing us the stillbirth rate. In this data set, the early assistance was no problem at all.
However, the late assistance caused the 9% stillbirth rate. And the reason why this earlier system didn't cause too much problem was that they used a huge amount of fluid, for, before, applying or before performing the obstetric assistance. We checked the, the effect of this social reproductive failures as well.
The distortion used to occur between 2 to 14%, this will decrease the fertility, milk production, cause survival. According, literature data in the UK, this may cost €500 per call. Of course, in the, in on this is a little bit lesser.
We checked the, the, the presentation of uterine and this is an anterior presentation. We had about 93% of the cases, Ontario presentation the Prevalence of retain fatal membranes was here 30% and me it is during the 1st 5 days, less than 20%. And in case of posterior and in case of renal pregnancy, .
Both re fertile membranes and the matris increased, although the, the The prevalence rate for posterior presentation was only 3%, about 3%, and for twin pregnancies as well about 3%. He had a . Oldero may have more problems with retained fertile membranes.
And here we checked. The The effect of calvin consistence of uterine disease. So the best group.
That When we will not use any kind of obstetriclosis and when we don't disturb our animals at that time, we have less problems with retainsatile membranes, less problems with clinical matrixs during the 1st 5 days, less problem with clinical matrixs between 6 to 10 days after coming. And recurrent clinical, matris as well. But when, the number of the, the assistants will be increased at that time, this problem will be increased as well.
So so, as, as I mentioned, that we examine the effect of autopsy on the foetus to be born. We checked this as well. We measured the, the vitality and the rear temperature in those cases when the newborn animals did not need any kind of aesthetical assistance.
And here you can see the the pH value was higher than 7.2, which, which is normal. This is a so-called physiological level, this is true for the basic access values as well and the PCO2 value and the total CO2 values as well.
Allocate concentration was measured as well and the haemoglobin. Here we try to find out the effect of factors and covariant on the investigative variables, and here we were able to find some significant The effect. Maybe this, slide is, summarising more clearly the effect of autopsy on the newborn calf .
Longer duration of delivery may cause a negative effect all kinds of parameters which were examined. This, the higher body weight will cause similar negative effects. And what was very interesting is that the warmer season caused also a negative effect as well.
At that time, the longer duration of leaking the cars. Caused a positive effect. So in case when the newborn calf was born without any kind of assistance.
So our conclusion was several factors have had a significant effect of venous blood gas parameters are new broadcasts within the 1st 24 hours of life. Besides the time of sampling er of it to burst, Caesars should also be considered when assessing plant gas parameters in daily cars. The severity of postnatal acidosis was affected by the duration of the delivery process and maternal grooming, both of which should be considered to have both animal welfare and technological implications.
The role of physiological factors in the seeming higher vitality of new cancers in winter should be clarified in the future as it may have clinical and welfare implications as well. Effect of dystonia. The first two groups was without assistance and the 3rd and 4th group.
Calf fuller was used in the, in the third group, anterior presentation in the first posterior presentation. So you can see that the difference that in this case express osciidosis could be detected and the compensation of this expressoidosis needs more time comparing with the, with those that there was no, no acidosis, express oxidosis at all. It was very interesting that regarding the PO PCO2 value, there were not so big difference between the first group.
However, it was somewhat higher, of course, . Hibernia was higher in, in those cases when Capo Avo is used, but the base as wells are, are clearly demonstrating that . When we are using carpooler.
At that time, the express aidosis will be more pronounced. Effect of dyst social reproductive failures or it was already discussed. And my take home message I hope.
I have 2 minutes, but . I, I I will Able to to. So just my My message is That the target incidence rate is about between 1 to 3%.
Which means that It can be reached by using their phone in large dairy farmers. Because it was, the prevalence rate was less than 3% for us. Postpartum uterine and this is like within in foetal membranes, clinical match with this injury of the soft vaco can be decreased.
This is also very important. And by this way, I have to emphasise that. We have to prevent the development of asphyxia.
Not only because instruments for artificial aspiration are not common in in farm condition, it would be very difficult to make artificial aspiration and to remove the, the, the. The fluid from the lung. And of course there are some profitability factors as well.
So in this respect. I have to emphasise the important role of management. Regular training on large farms may be a good idea.
During the, the dry off period. We were able to to To decrease the the stillbirth rate with a 3 to 2 to 3 kilometres walk in the farm. In our closed system, it's it's a little bit difficult to to do this.
However, We can avoid obesity. This 100% sure or we training and breeding of hay first, this is also so very important we can . Manage this problem, we can select a good pool for our, our animals.
We may use sexymen by this way, we can decrease the, the, . The rate of bull car. In our circumstances in large form, it is very important to provide adequate training of calving assistance, continuous attendance during day and night is also very important.
It is also very important to avoid traction longer than 2 to 3 minutes. Because If it is longer than 2 to 3 minutes at that time, the prevalence rate for severe metabolic acidosis will be increased. So we have to to plan our attraction less than 2 minutes.
Avoid heavy traction because we may cause fracture of the spine of the spine in a steelber can. We can broke the mandibular. Again, there's a fracture.
In doubtful case, we may do a short traction test and we can measure even in farm condition today it is possible to measure the, the blood acid-based status or the lactate concentration. Maybe it is easier. And cheaper and If we have a, a valuable photos at that time, we, we may select C-section immediately.
As soon as possible in order to be able to decrease the problem with acid-based disturbance. We have to pay particular attention to the ingestion of cholostool as well, because if we are not able to provide adequate absorption at that time, we can lose our new born cars because of, of, for example, choleenterotoxin. This is a German study showing us that in case of intratalin, the first column in case of intratal asphyxia.
Even the cholesterol was a limit to however, less immunoglobulins were ingested. And we made by ourselves, we made a study as well and found that respiratory acidosis may also negatively affect the absorption of hemoglobulins, so we have to prevent the development of metabolic acidosis. This is very important.
Thank you very much for your kind attention. Oh excuse me. My, it was, it was worth it, Otto.
Thank you so much for your time and your explanation to what clearly is, is quite a complex situation that that needs attention and certainly from what you've shown us tonight, it, it, it looks like we can make quite a significant difference, which is always the aim of, of being a vet, isn't it? Yes, that's correct. Fantastic.
Folks, that's it for us tonight. Once again, to Otto, thank you kindly for your presentation, for all of you for joining us tonight. Thank you very much for your time and to my controller in the background, Pam, thank you for making everything happen smoothly.
And from my side, Bruce Stevenson, it's good night, everybody.