Hello, it's Anthony Chadwick for the Webinar vet welcoming you to another episode of Vet Chat. I'm sure those of you who've listened to some of our podcasts know how passionate we are about regenerating the world, the veterinary world in our, in our sort of small micro niche that we are in, but we, we obviously are very influential as vets. To do that, so I'm really pleased today to have somebody who's coming from a slightly different angle from outside the veterinary profession, Maurizio Poras, who is the founder of Hero, which is a platform that helps people to subscribe to support campaigners who are campaigning for sustainability issues, for climate crisis issues.

We, we know that this is a really, decisive decade that we've got to work on and as individuals we have responsibility as companies we have a responsibility, but also, Governments can make the biggest changes, but they move very slowly, and so this is where it's so important to have people who are lobbying, who are protesting, . In non-violent ways to to actually move the climate discussion forward. Obviously some countries are much more Connected to this than others, we have a Prime Minister at the moment, Mauricio, who has 5 key points, it might be 5 or 6, and climate is not mentioned in them, which, when I see the existential threat that the climate crisis is to our world, I find I'm a bit bemused by it by, to be honest, so there definitely is a need to move governments to begin to see that this is actually quite an important issue.

But welcome to the podcast, Mauricio. Thank you, Anthony, for, for having me, such a, such an honour and thank you also for the amazing work that you do. And yes, as you say, we're in a time where You know, we have very little time.

We have less than 7 years to actually move the scale to keep global temperature between 1.5 below 1.5, and as you well described, politicians and decision makers are not moving at that speed, so.

It's it's something that we need to speed up, that we need to accelerate and at hero we have found that the fastest and most effective way to, to actually bring down global temperature and accelerate those policies is by supporting those campaigners at the front lines of policy change. So we've created the first platform, Herocircle. App for citizens around the world, any person that wants to do more for climate change.

For just €6 to support those at the front lines working to change policy all across the globe. Yeah, I was going to talk about the subscription because it seems a really elegant solution. People can pay €6 a month, they can pay more if they want to, and then in that way they can support somebody who is campaigning against the climate problems either locally in their own area, you know, you're obviously .

Building up circles, aren't you, of people who can work together, cos obviously working on your own, it becomes quite demoralising. I think we, we see it in our own veterinary community around sustainability. There are, when when people join up in a group, they feel so much stronger.

We, we can kind of wax and wane between being completely hopeful and optimistic about this to being terribly pessimistic. And actually, if you're a pessimist. Then you don't want to get out of bed, you don't want to actually take action, so there needs to be hope, and obviously we can help each other in that because if we're doing it on our own and we have a bad day, we don't get out of bed, whereas if we've got 5 people encouraging us, then we're more likely to get on and and continue on that journey, aren't we?

Yeah, exactly. I mean this, this, the first thing that that we need to tackle the climate crisis is to understand that the only way out is through collective efforts. There is no one single person, one single organisation or one single solution that will take us out of this crisis, and I think it's The more we understand that we are actually in all of this together, that we are interconnected, that all the actually the the crisis that the world faces are interconnected and have to do with each other, the faster we're going to get out of them, and part of that is, is what you just described is we through hero we are trying to create those You know, systems of collective effort where no single work or solution is dependent on one single individual but rather on creating a sustainable structures that allow these campaigners to work collectively, you know, sustainably over time so that we avoid burnout so that we also can.

You know, distribute a bit of weight, it's a, it's a work that comes with a lot of weight, sometimes a lot of frustration, a lot of . Yeah, burnout and not, not so many, good news, especially, as you well described in the, in the UK, right now, climate unfortunately it is not a priority for the prime minister, so there's a lot of work to do, so we cannot do it alone and, and yeah, that's why from the essence, Hero is built not only for the circles to work together, but for also citizens to feel part of a bigger movement that collectively as civil society, we can do something about it. So the campaigners obviously get support, but there's also that feeling as a subscriber that you are doing something to help the environment.

There is, as we've just said, the tendency that if you're an individual, you think, oh what's the point? There's actually even now a a psychiatric scientific word for it called solastalgia, which is this sort of existential dread that the planet is not going to exist for very much longer and therefore lose all hope and do nothing about it, whereas I think as individuals, if we could join together as a collective, there is power in, in, in the group, isn't there? Yeah, I mean, it is, as I, as I mentioned before, I think.

The faster we realise the amount of power that collectively we could have, and that power used to, to change things in the positive direction, I think we would be very hopeful and I think this is what campaigners remind us about every, every day, that there is hope and there is, you know, there is a possibility to change this actually the You know, the people still believe that the responsibility of climate change is an individual responsibility, but we have to be able to point in the right direction who is really responsible for the climate crisis, and we cannot deny that the fossil fuel industry has played a huge, huge role in this crisis, so. Actually I was reading that the term carbon footprint was actually coined by oil giant BP to make sure that individuals felt that it was their fault and like to remove the, the responsibility of, of, you know, no, it's not us, it's them, and I think this, you know, this sort of . Perspective are, are, are crucial to outline because when you talk about hope and as citizens like oh maybe my what I can, you know, support or what I can do is not enough to actually change things, that's exactly what the system wants you to believe, right, because if we don't act, then we just let business go as usual and I think campaigners around the world have, you know, .

Chosen not to stay quiet about this reality and are now every time inviting more and more people to realise that we can actually change things, that the world deserves to change these things and that it's possible and they are demonstrating that changing climate policy is the way forward and that they are doing it at unprecedented speed. And with more support, I'm pretty sure we can go much faster as well. We, we have to reduce our carbon usage, you know, as individuals and as countries by 50% in the next 7 to 10 years.

And of course, had we started that 30 years ago, it would have been a lot easier. And companies like Exxon had the information of knowing that climate warming was happening and they buried it because of course it didn't fit with their business model, did it? Yeah, of course, and this has been going on for years, as campaigners very well said.

We are in a crisis of delay, . What fossil fuel companies are doing at this point is just delaying and and not only fossil fuel companies but governments as well. It's just delaying and delaying because they know that this needs to change.

The, the topic here is How long can they last before it's no longer a business model that could be sustained and I think that's where, where citizen, citizens holding governments accountable and corporations accountable, it's, it's such a key part because it's only through that public pressure. Peaceful public pressure that that these corporations and governments will, will need to change. If people don't take a stand, if people don't come together, and if these campaigners are not supported to, you know, be stronger and go faster, then it's going to be quite hard, yeah, but if we come together, actually, People will notice that it's more the people that want it to change than the 1% that is in power.

It's interesting we're working a lot with the pharmaceutical industry to try and see how as vets we can do more, you know, as an industry, so the pharmaceutical to feed industry. And you definitely, I, I think even with the oil industry there, you can't paint everybody the same because I know there are some of the oil companies that are taking this more seriously than others, and similarly with the pharmaceutical firms, some of them. Really have no policy, you know, don't seem to be interested in sustainability much at all, whereas others are showing a lot of interest in it.

And there's a gradation, and I think sometimes we have to remember that companies are made up of people, and actually now people are seeing the need for, you know, even if you work in an oil company, there has to be a transition. I've just read, Mark Carney's book, he was the ex-governor of the Bank of Canada and then the Bank of England. And he is now very much involved in a lot of the climate change stuff.

And he's seeing the change, you know, within companies, but also within the investment industry now, which is saying we won't invest in a company unless they have a good ESG rating and obviously people can play games with that, but I think it's positive that we're seeing those changes. Yeah, yeah, I mean, as you said, I think, and, and that is so key, it's At the end, all of these organisations are, you know, built by people and are conformed by people and so this is also, you know, we, we need to have a lot of empathy and understanding and that's why at least, you know, at Hero we believe that it's only through peaceful dialogue and conversations and diplomacy that, that we can move forward because this is not just about pointing and saying you're wrong and right. This is, as I was saying at the beginning, this is, it needs to be a collective effort and as you well, very well said, I mean we cannot transition from one week to the other into renewables, like there's a lot of challenges and probably even, you know, in the near future the energy distribution needs to be a mix of several technologies.

I think here what we are looking at is more like I think actions speak louder than, than words, right, and commitments, and I think campaigners are right sometimes to, to be upset when those actions are not met with the promises that governments and the companies make so. For us, it's very clear, the science is clear, there cannot be any new oil and gas. Expansion as it is now, it's like putting more actually putting more gas to the fire.

If your house is, you know, on fire, you don't go and put more gas on it so that the fire goes bigger and that's, that's exactly what's happening when this industry decides to build that that is happening at the moment because of course we see the fires in Canada, for example, at the moment are the, the biggest, I think by sevenfold this year compared with any year on record. I, I gave a talk in July and at that time, this was before the fires that are burning in the Northwest Territories. 160 billion tonnes of carbon had been emitted into the atmosphere.

Which of course we then have the danger of seeing these positive feedbacks, which means that when we think we have 7 to 10 years. We could have less time than that to actually turn the ship around, so, you know, you're absolutely right. I think it's really interesting.

I have friends who have worked in the oil industry, and they will say to me, using the UK example, you know, our, our Prime Minister has just, I think he's given over 100 licences recently to open new wells, . They say, you know, we create 2% of the carbon in the whole world, so we are insignificant and actually if we carry on exploring and bringing oil in, then we don't have to buy from places like Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc. Etc.

But of course it's so important that we also can be seen, you know, that the carbon that's been used in the global north. The effects of that carbon are being much more felt, you know, over the last decades in the south, and now of course it's moving into the north where we see the fires in Greece. In Portugal, in in Canada as well, so.

We, we have that responsibility, even if it's only 2%. We have to show an example I think in the UK of saying, yeah, but we do not want to add to this and we are going to try and reduce our carbon, not export it somewhere else. And of course even 2%.

By not burning fuels that are polluting, we end up with clearer atmosphere which then helps things like our levels of asthma and so on that we have in the country. So to me it makes absolute sense and I do sort of scratch my head and get very frustrated when I see our government, giving 100 licences to companies to continue to explore. We have to.

I know this is where I think your researchers and your campaigners need to come in, the oil. Needs to be left in the ground, we obviously need some transitional oil. And maybe we'll always need some oil, but we need to massively reduce the amount of oil that we're using per annum, you know, in the planet.

Yeah, and I think you know with this is because the climate crisis has been very politicised in terms of, you know, if you are pro-climate then you are, from the left if you right like it has been very politicised and I think. The, the right, or the ideal approach is, you know, science is, is, is the key, like this is science-based like. Just listen to the science, whichever on the political spectrum you are, it's, it's just science-based, and I think there has been a lot of misinformation around, you know, the impacts or whatnot, but the science is very clear and I think in a time where again, Where the science is clear on no new oil and gas if we are to have a chance to keep global temperature below 1.5, like that's the norm, that should be the norm, that doesn't mean like Let's switch to renewables from one day to the other, but it means that governments and corporations need to stop new oil fields and when you see governments pushing for 100 new licences right now to, to just speak about the UK, they're trying, the government is trying to push for, for the Rosebank oil field in the North Sea which will emit.

The CO2 of 28 countries in the global South combined in a year. And and this is where, where it gets interesting is that the information that they tell the public is that this is going to lower energy costs. That it's gonna bring, you know, energy security win which actually in reality it's most of that oil is going to get exported.

It's not going to lower the energy bills and it's gonna be paid like around 90% if I'm not mistaken with taxpayer money, so. As a citizen and going a little bit more like now into into hero and and why this is so crucial is what do you do with that as a citizen? How do you make sure that you have a voice that the government is listening to you and that you can actually have a say to stop, for example, something like this Rosebank oil field and that is where campaigners come in like.

Campaigners are on top of these decisions that government is taking every day, and they're making sure to mobilise people, to raise awareness, to, to make sure that people in power know that citizens don't want this to go, and that's where hero connects you as a citizen with those campaigners that are at the front lines actually today of that Stop Rosebank campaign to Make sure that projects like the Rosebank oil field don't go, you know, don't continue to, to be developed, because of the disaster that that is going to cause for, for the environment and also because that amount of taxpayer money would be better used in actually making sure that we transition into renewables which will. Lower the energy bills for for citizens. So I am, you know, an example of that.

14 years ago I put solar panels on my roof for thermal eight years ago PV. This last year I put a battery in. And of course my energy bill has You know, gone down rapidly, obviously, energy prices are going up at the moment and, The people who are making the most money of that are the energy companies, so they could actually make it a lot cheaper, but they decide that they, they want to have those, these, there is an energy, you know, an energy windfall tax in the UK.

A lot of this seems really obvious. I think the key is we should try and keep it away from being binary because as you've said, it can be left and right, and, and the kind of politics which says, well, you know, we just don't believe the science and the science, I think everybody knows who, who, you know, has read into it is, is clear, and even if it isn't clear. It seems sensible that we start to reduce what is a polluting source anyway, which dirties our air, which means we don't have clean air, which means more of our children have asthma, etc.

Etc. It seems sensible that we can transition to a cleaner energy. That just makes sense even if the climate's scientists are not telling us the truth, which, you know, I, I kind of completely disagree with.

You know, I, I think the science is out there. I, I, I gave a talk recently and there was a poli there was a journalist who was saying. We've had 2 or 3 cold days on the row here, it's July, therefore, you know, the climate crisis doesn't really exist, it's just a load of bully campaigners.

And my response to that was this lady does not understand the difference between climate and weather. Yeah we are allowed to have cold days, so . Mauricio, I think it's great what you're doing, it's what really interests me is obviously bringing in that citizen science and if anybody is going to do this, you know anybody's gonna talk about the environment and and .

To work really hard at making things better, it's always good to look to a citizen of a country who actually does take the environment seriously, and Costa Rica's been a huge success story on things like reafforestation, you know, they looked 30, 40 years ago and said, our country is moving in the completely wrong direction around climates. Tell us a little bit about some of the successes in in Costa Rica. Yeah, so, well, I'm very fortunate to come from a country that that values two things, people through peace.

So we, we don't have an army since 1948, and also the environment, you know, Costa Rica now runs in renewable energy, 99% of the energy comes from renewables. And that's, that has been the case for the past, I think 3 years now or even more. So I, I think this sets an example that it is possible that, even, you know, for a small country like Costa Rica, like you can have big dreams, so I think it's a, it's a matter of political will, you know, it comes down to political will and Because the, the solutions are there, like we, we also live in a time where, you know, the, you know, we have the, the solutions, we have the tech, we have the science, it's, we just need the will and, and I think that is the case for Costa Rica and there has been a will to take care, I mean, of course we can always do better.

Costa Rica is also not perfect, but I think there has been. And you know, the, the will to take care of our nature, our forests, our, our air, and transition and be an example to the world, on renewable energy and the protection of natural resources. So it's something that, that also you get, you know, when, when you're raised in Costa Rica, you're very, you know, connected to nature since day one, like you are taught.

To take, take care of nature, to look after nature and enjoy your natural surroundings. So that leads me to another point which is, you know, I think one of the reasons why we feel so disconnected with climate change is that we think that climate is something that is separate from us. It's like nature is there, I'm here and And I use nature or I benefit from nature and I think part of that not only collective mindset that we need to change is also how we relate to nature.

So it's, we are part of nature and I think even if it's just a small change on how you frame it, it makes all the difference. It's nature, it's not there, you're part of it and when you realise that you're part of it. That you are nature as well, then you know you want to look after yourself and each other, and I think, yeah, that's, that's key.

Just I think I think you made a really good point there, but also before when you were talking about depoliticizing it in . I think it was Gordon Brown in in 2008, 2009. He made the Bank of England independent, so the Bank of England in the UK sets monetary policy, it sets the interest rates, and it's there to control inflation.

That's its job. Because it's got that control, it can get on with that without being interfered by government. And again, speaking about the book I've read recently called Values by Mark Carney, he's talked about the same thing.

We need a long term plan towards this, you know, governments in the UK change about every 5 years, and there can be this flip flop from one way to the other. I think the environment is such an important issue, along with some others, you know, of, of which monetary policy is the obvious one and that has had a change. If we all realised that this was the area that we were trying to go to to 1.5%, how can we do that, and we get scientists who know what they're talking about rather than politicians who are often not even educated in the area that they're you know, the government minister for, then I think we would have.

A much better solution than than listening to people who are usually not qualified to talk about it. So I, I think it's great that you will have campaigners who are educated in those areas who are trying to encourage government ministers to learn more about these things and for us to, to bring that out of complete government control, because the binary nature that you've talked about in politics is. We need, we need more diplomacy and we need more people to.

Listen to both sides of an argument, but then to to help forge. Compromise that is also gonna be better for the environment. So what you're doing I think is, is really important.

You know, I love the idea of these small cells and small groups that are being supported and things like indigenous rights, things like the climate crisis. Obviously, you know, you're based in the Netherlands, but you have a lot of UK members as well, don't you, who are subscribing. And who are the climate campaigners as well.

Yeah, so, as, as you well mentioned, we are, we have circles across the globe, working on different topics and in the case of the UK we have the UK Climate Justice Circle who, who is working on, on very concrete policies on the energy transition and Yeah, specifically right now, the Stop Rosebank campaign, which I, I mentioned earlier. So, so yeah, it's a, it's a very easy way for citizens to, to act on climate change, knowing that you're backing, as we, I think we discussed off camera around, you know, when you change a policy. The impact of that policy, I mean, let's, let's just look at the concrete Rosebank oil field.

If that project gets stopped, by all these campaigners, then we're talking about reducing the emission equivalent to 28 countries combined in a year. So it's, you know, we at Hero, we found that that is the most effective and easiest way to actually get involved if you don't have time, if you don't know where to start, if, you know, you maybe don't have the time to go through all the documentation, the science, but you do know that, that you want to do something about climate change because it's real, because you care about the planet and the future of generations. Then this becomes the easiest way to just think of it as, you know, talking about veterinarians, like when you hire a vet, it's because, you know, maybe that person has more expertise on, on how to treat your, your pet, right?

Or so you pay for someone to do that job. So that actually it solves the pain that that you have or something that you need to solve. So, you pay for that and we have normalised that, right, with all sorts of, of, careers and roles in society and now like this campaigners is basically the way we are trying to create a new system.

Within the system is that, you know, you have these experts in climate topics, in citizen mobilisation, in negotiation with decision makers. You have all the citizens that want to do more but they don't know how. So and these campaigners are not being paid for this job.

They're doing it on their volunteer time and they're fighting against giants that do have a lot of a lot of money, so we need to level the playing field. So how do we do that? It's by actually turning this into a service for the common good, which is mobilising as a service for citizens, for those citizens that want to do more and they don't know how and then with this subscription, it's like if you were hiring quote unquote or investing.

In campaigners that work on your behalf to make sure that for example the the Rosebank oil field doesn't move forward for the well-being of your family and your loved ones. I like the idea of investing in people because we allow these people who've often trained at university around environmental science to continue their development by using their qualification in the same way that. You pay for a vet to continue to get better at their job because if a vet never sees an animal, you know, it's going to be difficult for them to be better at their job of making animals better.

But I, I agree, I think the government side is so important and you know, for full disclosure we've got to also give credit to government. Obviously in Costa Rica doing great work. The UK, Michael Gove was the Environment Minister, and he was a birdwatcher, a very keen birdwatcher, so he understands about the environment more.

So he banned plastic straws, he banned, people had to pay a a a tax to buy a plastic bag in a supermarket. And when they were deep sea dredging the the floor looking for plastic bags, which they do, within two years they noticed there was like a 67% reduction in the amount of plastic in the ocean because of this simple tax that they placed on plastic bags at supermarkets. We now have more electric cars on the roads because there's better taxation, so it really can help when government.

Gets behind these initiatives, but often there's been campaigners involved and I know recently the EU passed a law, the Nature Restoration Act. You know, I know some of your guys were involved in in lobbying and campaigning around that, weren't they, in the EU parliament. Correct, exactly, yeah, I think, Anthony, as you describe it, it's it's a matter of will.

Basically it is possible government can play a huge role, even, you know, corporations can play a huge role in this. I mean, if we make this about, it's you and me and like of course we, we need to point things as they stand today like and call out the ones that are responsible. But at the same time we need to, I mean, it's about the will and about turning that will into action, and I think that if that action reflects the, you know, the will to move into a better future that puts people and the planet at the centre over excessive profit, .

Then I think we would be looking at much better scenarios, but yeah, in, in, in the case that you're describing recently at the EU level, the EU circle, which is part of Hero, managed to, along with other campaigners pass the Nature restoration law which aims to restore 20% of the EU's nature, so that is huge, because that's by 2030. And I mean the amount of land, biodiversity that could be saved and restored from, from those loss, those are the projects that hero. You know, was born to support, it's those legislations that yeah maybe climate policy doesn't sound, you know, very cool or easy to understand sometimes, but we're on a mission to, to make it simple for citizens to be able to impact those laws because As, as we just described, I mean 20% of the EU's biodiversity and land restored, it's a huge deal and by supporting these campaigners by €6 a month, I mean, then your impact, the return of investment to talk in those terms of those €6 it's, it's just enormous, yeah.

No, I, I really appreciate it and I for one will be signing up, so I will look out it's herocircle. App and I presume it's very easy and very obvious on the site to find out where you where you need to fill that in. Yes.

Thank you for all the fantastic work you're doing. This is already a movement that's starting to move in the UK and in Europe and further afield. And those of you listening, you know, as vets, we do have a responsibility to look after the planet.

It's great to see big companies, I've just noticed Aviva I just put 100 million pounds into, it's an insurance company in the UK. Putting 100 million into nature restoration, of which 21 million is going into wetlands with the WWT, which is one of our big, wildlife charities, nature reserve charities in the UK, you know, they've got deep pockets, but the 6 €6 adding up. Can become a a substantial amount as well.

So thank you for setting this up. It sounds really exciting. I think we need to continue to get you back to see how how progress is going as well, but I've really enjoyed chatting today, Maurizio, and thank you so much for giving your, your time, which I know is very precious, so thanks so much.

No, thank you, Anthony for, for letting me share the story, . And yeah, I just want to invite everyone to, to sign up. It's the easiest way to act on climate change, as you well said for just 6 years, a month or more, and just head to Herocircle.

App, subscribe today and you will get live feedback from all of these campaigners around the world on their work. You can go on their journey on what, what does it take to change climate policy, get exclusive updates, and also be featured in their victory. So every time there's a win, it's also your win.

So, thank you so much, Anthony, for inviting me, for spreading the word, and I hope the listeners feel inspired enough to go subscribe and support those doing one of the most important jobs of our time. Maurizio, thanks again. Thanks everyone for listening.

Hope to have you back on the podcast very soon. This is Anthony Chadwick from the webinar vet, and this has been Vet Chat. Take care, bye bye.