Hi there and welcome to Vet Chat, a new podcast for the veterinary profession brought to you by the webinar vet. We're gonna discuss all things from clinical cases to hot topical debates. I'm your host Ben Sweeney, and for the first time in my life over the episodes ahead of us, I'm aiming to listen more than I talk, and I can't wait for you to join me for the adventure.

Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of Vet Chat, and today I am delighted to be joined by my friend and current BVA president, Daniela dos Santos. Now, we, you, you'll know by now that we're very keen to find out some facts that we may not be previously aware of about our guests on this show, and Daniela was very, very keen to let you all know that she first decided to become a vet after seeing a goldfish floating upside down. It took her 5 attempts to get into vet school, which I think speaks volumes as to her commitment to the cause, and that she loves all things Disney.

So if you do hear us break into song from The Lion King halfway through this interview, we make no apologies. So Daniela, thank you so much for joining us, and I'm really excited to have a chat, and it's, it's really interesting to have these kind of conversations with someone who is, is, is a friend, but also is doing some fantastic things within the profession. So with your involvement at BVA, you know, why, why did you first join?

So I've been a BVA member. First of all, thanks for having me. The goldfish, by the way, survived just in case you were wondering.

But yeah, no, thanks for having me. And why do I get involved with BVA? I have been a member since I was a student, .

And I've always been interested in the bigger picture. I think it's really easy in our profession to kind of get stuck in your own little bubble and, and worry about the cat or dog that's coming in next, and, and forget that our profession spans such a wide range of people and, and careers and subjects that, there's a big wide world out there. So, I've been a BVA member since I was a student, carried it on, after I graduated, and I first got involved, you sort of more in depth with the BVA when I was about 18 months qualified, when I joined the Ethics and welfare panel.

And, and obviously the ethics and welfare panel is one of a multitude of roles within the BVA and certainly, you know, there's, there's more roles than I can even think of, of counting, and, and what was, what was your incentive, oh sorry, what was your, Reason for going specifically for that kind of role. So, for those of you that don't know, I am an exotic, animal vet, exotic pet vet, should I say, by sort of day, as well as the cats and dogs. But I'm an exotic pet vet that has some reservations about exotics as pets, and I do worry that perhaps the welfare isn't always being met in the same way that we would expect it to be met for a cat or a dog.

And when I was a student on EMS, I met this amazing vet called Kate. And I went to see practise with her, not at that point, because I thought I wanted to work with exotics, but more that I didn't feel like I knew enough of the basics, even, say, to, to treat a rabbit that came through the door. So I went on a sort of learning quest.

And actually, she said to me at one point, if you can teach one tortoise owner how to look after their tortoise properly, you're going to give that tortoise 60 years of a good life. And it kind of got me thinking that actually, If I did go into this sector, I could really make a difference to the welfare of these animals. And, you know, so typically, everybody goes, oh, you're a vet, you must love animals.

Well, to a degree, you have to love people too. And actually being an exotic vet combines the love of animals and the love of people because most of the work I do is education. So I always have that welfare background, admittedly more focused on exotics, and I was reading my vet record, and there was an advert in there saying they were looking for new people to join their ethics and welfare panel.

So I applied, and someone must have put something in the tea because they let me in. And I remember coming to my first ethics and welfare meeting and sort of sitting. The corner thinking, what on earth am I doing here, surrounded by these incredibly intelligent vets, lots of letters after their name, you know, very well known in their specific circles.

I thought there must be a mistake. But yeah, that's how my DVA journey started. It all started with a tortoise, although Disney would say it started with a mouse, for me, it started with a tortoise.

And I think, you know, it's, I think it's great that people start from an area where they're passionate about something, but obviously in your role now, you know, you've sort of very quickly moved up the ranks within the BVA and then in your role as president and of course previously as JVP and and next year looking in your SVP role. What, what was the drive to sort of, you know, to, to really sort of go, right, actually, do you know what, this is, this is a role that I feel is gonna suit me and it's gonna excite me. I'm if I'm really, really, really honest, there wasn't a drive.

This was never anything that. I thought about doing. It was never anything on my horizon.

And it was sort of just an opportunity that came my way. I just followed my passion. I just followed my interest, and, you know, after joining the group, I met all these incredible people, and you suddenly start becoming aware of other things you'd never thought about.

So, you know, one thing they spoke about was nose bands in horses. And I mean, anyone that knows me knows that I'm terrified of horses. So I haven't even thought of, I haven't even thought about a horse, since vet school, and And it was sort of, it piqued my interest.

I met all these amazing people. And actually, I'm just happy doing what I was doing, you know, happy being on the ethics and welfare panel. I love, love being a vet.

You know, I love being an in practise vet. So I was quite happy working in practise and doing this on the side, you know, sort of giving this extra dimension to my career. And then the advert came out for the new junior vice president, you know, they, they put a call out every sort of autumn, looking for someone.

And at the time, I was actually going to nominate someone else. Partly because, like I say, I, I never saw myself in this position. You know, people keep telling me I'm a leader in the profession now.

I never saw myself as a leader. And it was actually my partner who's not in the vet profession at all. He sat me down and he said, Daniella, why are you going to nominate someone?

You know, this is you on paper. I was like, really? And then I stepped back and, and actually it said they wanted someone, in exotic small animal or equine practise, and I ticked two of those boxes.

They wanted someone with a background in welfare, which, you know, I sat on the welfare advisory panel. By this point, I've become chair of the panel as well, which meant I sat on BVA council, which meant I was more involved in the politics, and they wanted someone with an understanding of politics. And then they said, they welcomed application from women.

And yet, I looked at that and I did not see myself, at all. And it took someone else to say to me, why don't you just apply? So, I did, very last minute.

I spoke to a past president who told me, you know, warts and all, what this job involved. And I thought, you know what, I've got nothing to lose. I'll just apply.

And I did. And then when I first got the phone call to say I've got it, it was John Fishwick at the time who was president, and he rang me. Well, he tried to ring me twice and I didn't answer.

I was out running. I was out running for the marathon. Now anyone who does know me knows I hate running, but I was running the marathon that year.

And when it rang the 3rd time, I thought, oh, someone is really persistent, someone really, really wants to speak to me. It was John. And he's like, oh, hi, Daniella, it's John.

I was like, Oh, hey, how are you? And then he mentioned that they'd had the electoral college, which is where they decide. And I was like, Oh, John, don't worry about it.

Look, I applied to some of the off chance. I'm totally fine being ethics and welfare. And he was like, no, no, no, stop.

We want you. And I just froze, and I froze, and then I started laughing hysterically, then I started crying. I rang my other half because I was out and I was, you know, so emotional.

I was like, what has happened thinking something serious had happened because I couldn't get my words out. So I guess, If I'm really honest, there was no drive, and I just love being a vet. I love our profession, and I took the opportunity that came my way.

This wasn't pre-planned, you know, often you'll hear people say, oh, people only do BVA presidency for a career step. That's not why I did it. I did it because someone saw something in me that I hadn't seen in myself.

And I'm championing a profession I love. I think, yeah, that as as reasons go, I think that's a pretty good one to be going off with, yeah. And I think, you know, obviously presidency is, is something that, you know, it's a short, short term role, but you know, have you got a particular goal or ambition, for, for that, you know, that, that 12 month period, obviously, you know, we're, we're, what are we, 45 months into it now.

You tell me, so when I first took up as JVP. Some of the best bit of advice I got was from Sean Wensley, a past president, and he said to me, Daniella, you've only got 3 years. So if there's something you care about and want to make a difference with, you start running now.

And so I did, And, you know, vet diversity is my presidential thing. And it's my presidential theme because this is my year, but I've been working on it since day one that I entered as an officer, and it's something that I will continue to, to work on through until the end of my SVP and I hope to leave something behind that means that the work will carry on, you know, and but diversity is such a big Big topic and the topic that actually we weren't talking about a few years ago. I'm not naive.

I'm not going to change the world overnight, but certainly I've instigated conversations that we weren't having before. Yeah, and I think that's what obviously from, from a point of view of Sean's insights, I can 100% voucher for him given that he's another, and we, we of course give excellent advice and guidance, . I think obviously, you know, when when that presidential term comes to an end, obviously there's sort of, you know, there's that period of time where you've got James Russell who's gonna come in and then those that follow in and after James and what can, what can they do to continue with that kind of legacy, or is that something that, you know, er, they just sort of, they, they will sort of carve their own path as well, or you just have to hope that.

I think there's both both is probably the right answer. So, you know, every officer that comes through has their own passion, you know, Sean's was animal welfare, Goodri's was team vet and workforce. John was one vet family.

Simon was one health, and he's done some amazing stuff there. And I think we all come with our own passions and, you know, areas in which we want to evolve or make a difference. I actually think that's a good thing.

I think it's good that we come with different ideas, because it means we continually challenge the BVA and challenge the profession. I think our officers work as a team, and so we will always champion and support each other. And and we'll say Simon led on One Health, absolutely, I'm 100% behind him, and we'll talk about one health and we'll champion the cause in the same way that both James and Simon and John before have championed diversity as well.

I think the way to look at it is that we have to start the conversations. What I hope to leave behind is some form of legacy that I started to change, that I started us having the conversation about, you know, people fitting in and being included within the profession and the importance of people, the importance of just treating each other like human beings and how that can go so far. The importance of the fact that we should reflect the profession we serve.

And, you know, there are, there are things going on behind the scenes. And, you know, I sit on the our CVS diversity and inclusion group as well, which is working hard there. We have a good workplace working group, which has a whole section on diversity and inclusion, but also the wider, how do you treat people in a way that wants to make them stay.

And we're looking to try and develop a widening participation outreach project as well, and only a couple of weeks ago, we had loads of amazing people in the same room talking about what's already going on, where are the challenges, how we can work things better. So I sort of see myself as a facility. For change at this point rather than finalising that change if that makes sense.

You, we can't change these things overnight. Definitely. I think, you know, you only have to look at changes across the profession in the last decade that, you know, we are moving in a positive direction and you know, as you rightly point out, it doesn't change overnight.

And that probably leads me quite nicely onto my next question, which is sort of, you know. So, so yeah, so how have you seen the BVA evolve during your, your time within the organisation? I think.

Any membership body, there is a real challenge in staying relevant, and it takes, you know, a lot of hard work and dedication. And actually, I'm really proud of the way BPA has been doing that in in recent years, you know, we work really hard at it. We have a really good system of getting feedback from our members.

We have our ear to the ground on various different aspects, you know, we have our members serve surveys and we use our voice voice of the profession survey as well to get the feeling from the ground, what's going on and and that will sort of Inform our policy decision making, our campaigning and lobbying aspects, you know, we've got a much stronger presence on social media as well. I think I can comfortably say that I don't feel like 10 years ago, the profession as a whole, we're talking about the BVA as much as they're talking about it now, in the way that they're talking about it. You know, we've gone from, I feel, what does the BVA do to the BVA is doing this, how can I get involved?

Or people actually coming forward. And going, you know, I really think this is really good, but actually, I'd quite like you to look into this. And I feel like we're getting more and more interaction with our members, which is exactly what we want.

We are shaped by our members, you know, our policy is driven and set each year through council that has representatives from every sector of the profession. And I think another way of looking, you know, going back to our committee structures and so on, we had a governance review, which means there's far more opportunities for people to get involved. And I can honestly say, since I've been involved year after year after we get more and more people volunteer to sit on these committees.

And I think that's a testament that we are increasingly more relevant. People do see us as, you know, the ones that are going out there, sticking on their out to champion our incredible profession. Yeah, and I think that's it, it's interesting that you say, you know, people are engaging more and more with BVA as an organisation and I think, you know, that's definitely evident, certainly from the outside looking in.

You can definitely see more conversation, engaging around the BVA and of course some of. That is negative and some of that gets fed back directly. So yeah, and you know, I, you look at it and you think actually there's some of that fed fed back in, in the right or the wrong manner, but how does the BVA deal with, with, with stuff where, you know, people are staunchly against steps that you were taking as an organisation?

So it's worth saying that I am very open to people contacting me when they think we've got something wrong, or or they think we've missed something. And actually, I'd like to think that there are people listening, they'll go, you know what, she's right, I've spoken to her about this, that, you know, my door is always open, and I would say the BVA as a whole is always open. When we receive criticism, we listen, and if it's justified criticism, we act on it.

I think one that might be a useful example here is the Brexit debate. I'm really sorry to bring up the B word, but I, I'm not gonna get into the details of it, but. Well, no, I'm not gonna get into details of it, and, and BVA didn't.

Have a position on Brexit leave remain, none of that. And the reason we didn't have it is because our members have such a wide variety of views, that it would be inappropriate. We are a membership body.

Having said that, we did take the stance of saying that we did not support a no deal. And actually, when that came out, we did get some pushback from some members. But I'm comfortable in the in the decision we came to that it was representative of our members, because we put a call out to our members that this is what we were going to be considering.

And at council, and could they feedback via their regional reps and, you know, or if it's via a division, via division as to what their feelings were, we were going to take a vote at council. And we had a really robust discussion there, off the back of, you know, some evidence that the BVA put forward, which is still available on why, you know, the consequences of a no deal specifically. And there's a robust discussion at council.

There was a vote where some divisions abstained, either because they couldn't vote or because they had sort of really mixed messages from their members. And there were some that voted for and some that voted against. And actually, the majority voted for coming out in favour of a no-deal Brexit.

And therefore, I was comfortable, we were representing the views of the vast majority of our members. Now, there were some members that were absolutely not happy with that. But with the membership body, you are never going to be able to have everyone agree with everything you say.

All you can do is try your best to represent as many of them as you possibly can. And I am comfortable that in that situation, we did. There will be times that we get it wrong, and we're here to listen and we're here to put hands up and go, do you know what, messed up there, really sorry, let's start again.

And I think, you know, like you say, there's so much goes on behind the closed doors, and I think, you know, they're doing a good job of bringing that information out to the masses, and I think, you know, like you say, you're never gonna please everybody all of the time, but. So looking at the role of, of presidents, like, I know yourself and Simon have been brilliant in the last couple of years at really disseminating that, that sort of information as to, you know, what it is that you're doing, but you know, is. Is there such a thing as a normal week, and, and, you know, what does the week look like for the BVA president?

No such thing as a normal week. It's, it's like being in practise. You know, you never know what's around the corner.

Perhaps to the extreme, you know, this week, I thought I had a reasonably, I'm going to say the keyword, a reasonably quiet week. It didn't work like that. And, you know, I've gone from, I'm doing this.

This morning, I was filming for the BBC. I've given interviews on Brexit. I've looked at policy positions.

I'm preparing a keynote speech for AVS Congress. All of this is going on with conversations in-house about policy positions. You know, we had a policy on the care working group meeting this week as well.

We've got ethics and welfare panel coming up. There is no such thing as a normal week. What it does highlight is that we, as vets have such transferable skills.

We just get stuck in this bubble that all we can do is clinical stuff. All we can do is neuter that cat or castrate that dog, or, you know, assess that horse for lameness. Actually, we can do so.

Much more, and this role has allowed me to use all the skills that I developed as a vet in practise. And I think that's, you know, like you say, you know, as a, as a profession, there is that real sort of, not necessarily a drive to leave the profession, but a drive to use those skills that that we develop and utilise day to day in other areas of of life as well. And I think, you know, that, that's, you know, you only have to look at some of the fantastic things people are doing inside, outside, and adjacent to the profession, to, to see those skills getting used all over.

I think, yeah, I was gonna say I think this links back to my vet diversity piece in terms of, you know, when I say vet diversity, I mean talk about to celebrate the differences between the people, but also celebrate all the different sectors we work in and try and move away from the fact that you have to be a specialist to be a good vet or the GP work is, you know, less important, or that being a vet outside of practise is somehow a sort of a second rate career choice. This is about celebrating all of us, whatever we decide to do. But also to acknowledge that sometimes the grass isn't always greener on the other side, and that sometimes we have to take responsibility for ourselves.

And if we're not happy with something, think about how can we fix this? And that includes acknowledging our transferable skills and where we'd want to use them. You know, obviously it's a, it's a busy, it's a sort of, dare I say, even sometimes chaotic role, but what, what excites you about it?

You know, why, why do you get up and go in and not say, right, do you know what, I've, I've had it, I'm, I'm gonna hand back my big change. Because I genuinely feel that I'm currently involved in some work, some pieces of work that will make a real difference to this profession. We are so lucky to be in this profession, and it is an incredible profession, and I know we all have difficult days, and I know all of us at some point have probably thought, oh, what am I doing?

Actually, for example, you know, we know there's a recruitment and retention issue out there. We also know there's no silver bullet to fix it. So, you know, I'm involved in the diversity stuff, trying to encourage more kids into the profession from more diverse backgrounds.

Which I think will be beneficial, and I truly believe this will be beneficial for the profession in the years to come. I'm also involved in work looking at the education system and how we can fund the education system more effectively, how we can lobby for better education funding, so that we can have, you know, a more robust system in place for veterinary education. I'm involved in graduate outcomes, which will change, you know, life, hopefully, for, for recent grads for the better.

I'm involved in a good workplace working. Which looks at what it is to be in a good place to work, both from an employer and employee perspective, and that doesn't matter if it's clinical practise or civil service or pharmaceuticals, and all of that put together, I believe, over time, will have a real positive impact on our profession. And I hope to leave that legacy behind that I was involved in the work that's made a difference, and it won't be tomorrow.

You know, I won't see the results tomorrow. But I'm hoping in 5, 10 years' time, look back and go, do you know what, that was the beginning of change, and that's why we have a happy profession now. And I think, you know, that that's, that's a great way to look at it is that, you know, we know it's not gonna happen overnight, but, you know, those, those seeds that we're planting now and those seeds that have been planted over the last few years, God willing, that that will have a positive impact on on the members over the next.

Absolutely. And I think, I think it just highlights the importance of an organisation like BVA in terms of there, fighting your corner, looking at the problems and looking for solutions, whilst you will go about your busy day, that's what we do. That's what we're there for.

We're there to support everyone and to make the workplace better and to improve animal welfare. And actually, that's our role. And for those that say, what does the BVA do?

Well, we are trying really hard to make your day to day work life better. And I think on that point, you know, there's obviously there'll be people listening who sit there going, you know, I'm a little bit passionate about this, you know, this I I maybe. Got a little bit of an insight into this area and this area here, I know from my own involvement in the member benefits committee very briefly, in years gone by, and that, you know, it is great to be able to give back to that profession, but sometimes it can be a little daunting for people to get involved with.

So how can people, you know, look into being involved on one of the, you know, multiple committees across the whole of. So first thing I'd say is I know it's daunting, you know, I said at the beginning of this, I walked into the meeting going what on earth am I doing? But we're nice people.

We really are nice people, and there's nothing to be daunted about. And there are loads of different ways, you know, for those of you that just want sort of a light touch involvement, you know, we have the voice surveys, which are an hour of your time each year. It's 4 surveys that each take about 10 to 25 minutes to complete, so quarterly.

And so you can sign up to be a member of that. And that data gives us so much. It's a lot of the data that we use to.

It's a lot of the data we use in media work. So you can go on our website to sign up to that. Obviously engaging with our social media campaigns.

And that comes back to what you just said. It depends on what you care about. So, you know, if you're passionate about companion animal welfare, you've got a breed to breathe campaign or, you know, I work on extreme confirmation.

If your passion is welfare at slaughter, well, we are about to release a new position on welfare at slaughter. If it's workforce discrimination, diversity, there's loads going. On there.

So, you know, we also had our campaign last year about I'm a celebrity, get those animals out of there. So engage on a social media campaigns on what floats your boat, you know, whatever ticks your boxes is your passion area. If you have more time, and getting involved with the young vet network is a brilliant way of doing that.

And these are grassroots organisations that sort of pop up all over the country and where it's basically a CPD and social event. So that, you know, young vets that are in an area perhaps away from their family and friends can just meet up, talk to each other about the day to day life of being a recent graduate. They are primarily aimed at recent graduates, but we do have, you know, more senior members of the profession going and giving talks or helping organise.

And certainly, if you'd like to get me involved in that and you can't find one in your area, do give us a shout and we can help you with that, and perhaps help set up, set one up. And if you live in, you know, our to Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, they have their own active branch structures with social activities and they are our main voice to the devolved governments. So you can get involved there if you want to get a bit more political.

Every year we advertise for committee vacancies and this will range from policy committee to ethics to, you know, member benefits. There's loads and you can find them all on our website, and I'm sure you will find something that suits your interests. They're really, really competitive, and it's getting more so, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't apply.

You know, I applied as an 18 month qualified nobody. That's, you know, nobody knew who I was and I applied and I got on and look where I am now. And actually, one of the comments when I first was announced as JVP.

When I met a fellow president of one of the divisions was, I didn't even know who you were. Not a bad thing, not a bad thing, but, so, you know, get involved. Also council, you will all have council reps.

You will all get access to your our council papers two weeks before council, which happens in April, July, September, and December. And that will give you up to-date information on what we're doing. Just have a skim through.

You don't need to read it all, look at things that interest you. And feedback to your reps, because that comes to the top council and policy decision making. So, there are loads and loads and loads of ways.

And if I could just urge one thing is, don't think you can't do it, don't think you've got nothing to give, don't think someone else will do it for you. We, the BVA is your membership body, we're there to represent you, get involved. You won't regret it.

It is the best thing I have ever done in my career, and it was It's never my intention to get involved. I think that is about as strong a moment to finish any kind of interview on on such a high positive note, so I just want to take a moment and say thank you very much for your time, thank you very much for your insight, and yeah, I know that people will have a lot to say on the back of, of topics that we've discussed today, and hopefully people will take that opportunity to get involved. So Daniella, thank you very much.

Thank you so much, Ben, lovely talking to you. Thanks for joining us for today's episode of Vet Chat. If you've enjoyed listening to my dulcet scouse tones as I interview people much more intelligent than myself, then please do click follow and join us for future episodes.

Hi again everybody. On today's episode of Vet Chat, I'm joined by Suzie Samuel. Now many of you will know the name.

Suzie has been at the forefront of the digital sphere within the veterinary sector for the last 12 years. She's the founder of Vet Digital and Vet Help Direct, and I dare say that we've probably all worked at a practise at some point that have had some degree of input from one of these organisations. Suzie would happily turn round and tell you that probably her funniest moment in practise was when she was just about to clip a parrot's nails, and as she placed the nail clippers on that parrot's foot, it looks at her longingly into the eyes and says, ouch.

Now I don't know about you, but that would be enough to put me on edge for the entire episode. Of clipping that no set of nails. Fortunately, she didn't catch the quick on any of them, and they did part as good friends.

So it's great to see that, you know, all of the people that we're dealing with have got firsthand experience of being in practise. And I think it's safe to say that Suzie is to digital marketing what Cornish pasties are to Cornwall. So Suzie, thank you so much for joining us.

Hi everyone, on today's episode of Vets Chat, I'm joined by Suzie Samuel, who is the founder of Vet Digital and Vet Health Direct, and I think it's safe to say that Suzie is to veterinary digital marketing what Cornish pasties are to Cornwall. She has got a wealth of knowledge in this sphere and has really driven that digital revolution with within veterinary practises to try and improve that relationship with pet owners and to improve the experience. For them and as a result, really look to benefit the reputations of the practises that she works with with their clientele and attract new clients into that race.

So, Suzie's funniest story, she reckons from practise, I am told on good authority that this is the only one that's clean enough to be told on on a podcast. Is that she was once looking to clip the nails of a of an African grey parrot, and as she goes to clip the first one, the parrot looks at her and says, Ouch. Fortunately she got through the rest of the nail clipping, and they parted on good terms without any quicks having been cut.

So Susie, great to have you with us. Thank you so much for joining us. Hi everybody.

In light of the recent coronavirus outbreak, we've produced some short episodes with people in various locations around the world, and in this first episode, I actually take a break from hosting and webinar vet, founder and CEO Anthony Chadwick interviews his longtime friend Alastair Hodson Moore. Alistair's based out in China and can give us a true insight of what's really been going on out there from the horse's mouth, so to speak. We hope you're all staying safe and well, and we really do thank you for doing every bit that you can to follow the government guidelines and keep yourself and everybody else safe in this very unprecedented time.

Take care and enjoy your lesson. Hi everybody, as many of you are aware, the situation in the UK is following a very similar trajectory to that in Italy. So in today's episode, I'm delighted to be joined by Flavio Morchi, who's an Italian vet based in the north of the country who's gonna give us some insight into what's going on there.

Again, we hope you're all staying safe. We hope you're looking after your families and each other, and that you're following the guidelines. We know as a profession we've got a real opportunity here to stem the spread of this disease by working together and following the guidelines, and I really do think that you're doing a splendid job.

Take care. Hi there everyone. As you're aware, we're doing some special episodes in the light of the coronavirus outbreak, and in today's episode, I'm delighted to interview an Italian vet, Flavio, about what the situation's been like for him and the rest of Italy and how they see the past, the present and the future in terms of the veterinary life and life in general.

Enjoy is a strong term for what we kind of hope that you've got out of today's episode, but we do hope that it's given you some insight and that you have taken some solace from it. Many people are doing well and many people are recovering. There are of course people that will be lost in this great tragedy of our time, but we hope that you continue to follow the guidelines and continue to stay safe yourself and look after those around you.

Thanks for listening and do keep an eye out for other episodes that are coming up in the not too distant future. Take care. Hi everybody, this is another bonus episode of Vetchat where we look at one of the hot topics that's affecting many of us across the profession at this moment in time, which is furlough.

We hope that the information that comes across in this podcast is helpful to you and provides clarity on the topic so that you can at least be able to sleep a bit better at night knowing how it's going to affect your own personal circumstances. We hope it helps. We hope that today's episode was helpful and provided you with some clear insight as to how furlough might affect your own personal circumstances.

Remember that as a profession, we are in the very fortunate position to have vet life. So if you do have financial or other concerns at this most unsettling of times, please do get in touch with VetLife, and they'll be able to help you or point you in the right direction for someone who can. Stay safe, everybody.

Hi everyone. Today I'm having a chat with veterinary team guru Alison Lambert from On Switch. Alison and I have a chat about the insights that we can take from the possible changes for the veterinary team and the customer care journey in light of COVID-19 and what that might mean in the short term, medium term, and some musings about the longer term.

Enjoy.