I'm Anthony Chadwick for the webinar bet welcoming you to another of our vet chat podcasts, sponsored by Nationwide Laboratories. And I'm really, really pleased to have Hannah Pinnock and Wendy F, who both work for nationwide for the NVS group. Going into practises, to try and assist and and help them.
And, what we're gonna talk about today is obviously just this, surge of new practises that are opening over the last couple of years. And, how that's actually going. But perhaps before we launch into that Hanner and Wendy, if you'd like to introduce yourselves and tell us a bit about what you do for M BS group, but obviously also, maybe a couple of hobbies or whatever till we get to know you a bit better.
Go. Do you wanna go first? Hannah?
Hi. Yeah, I'm Hannah. I am touch man for NB group.
I've been with the company for nine years now, so clearly enjoying my job very well. I started an issue of Nationwide laboratories, and as we've expanded into this N BS group banner, I now look after N BS and vet IT as well, so kind of an all around business support for practises. I am horsey through and through, so I've always owned horses.
So I love going into a crime practises and just having a gossip. And three years ago I became a mom, so I have a 3.5 year old boy as well.
He thinks it's very funny when he comes back from nursery to tell me that he's had lots of important meetings, emails and phone calls to do so. He's clearly copying what I've been saying to him. How many horses do you have?
I'm lucky that I share a couple so don't have the full financial responsibility, which is very handy, and you ride them or trying to get my little boy into it. I ride a thoroughbred mare so she's flighty. Or is she OK?
She's older now, so she's lost. She's lost that bit of spirit about her, but yes, enjoying a bit of a quieter life now. Oh, that's good.
Wendy, tell us a little bit about yourself, so I'm same as Hannah. I joined Nationwide Labs initially, and that was eight years ago, so I worked for them for two years. And then I moved over to M BS Group, the same as Hannah and look after the whole group.
And prior to moving here, I used to work as a practise manager, so I was a small animal practise in North Nottinghamshire. I was there for 18 years, so that's given me a good insight into life in practise that I've been able to translate over into life as a territory manager. Really, I understand what's going off behind the scenes and personal life, and it's all about the dog nowadays.
So my sons have left home. So we've got a spruel spring Cross poodle. So we spend our time out walking him.
It gets more and more complicated with these designer breeds and trying to work out exactly what they are, doesn't it? But, yeah, it's a It's a new phenomenon over the last 10 years. It sounds like both of you, you know, at Nationwide Laboratories, you all love it because you don't really move, do you?
So nine and eight years and then yourself when the 18 years at, the practise in Nottingham so very much embedded into the veterinary profession Yeah, yeah, it's across the whole of MVS Group. We've all been here. It seems like forever, which is really lovely.
It's just a familiar face, isn't it? For the for the practise and also internally as well. You know who you're working with day to day?
Yeah, it's really important to, you know, you talk some to some practises and obviously churn can be really high. And that's obviously often linked with culture. You know, if the business owner leader isn't creating a positive culture, it can very quickly become toxic and negative, can't it?
Yeah, definitely. Obviously, we've seen this surge of new practises opening. Why?
Why do you think that's happening? Perhaps we do. You go in with that one first.
I think there's been a big poll. I mean, the industry is must. It's busy.
It's really busy, isn't it? At the moment, everybody is busy, and I think the vets are just seeing that they want to make their own story. Nowadays, you know, they want to be able to make their own decisions and run the practise that they see their own vision.
And I think, there's more opportunity to do that nowadays than what they used to be. I suppose years ago you used to be able to buy into a partnership. That was the route that they took.
They become associated and then bought into a partnership. But that's been taken away. So you know, the motivation is work for yourself.
I think it seems to be that there's like a 60 70% corporate now 30 40% independent, but perhaps with also the Competition Commission. That's obviously been, inspecting the veterinary industry at the moment. Perhaps that's also encouraging the the newer practises for start ups to open up as well.
Yeah, we've seen, we were talking about this the other day. We've seen a real growing trend as well of these ambulatory start up practises. So there's kind of two fold.
I think one is that it keeps the costs down if they want to start up their own practise in the area. That they'll obviously have a base either the house or an office, but without the actual physical practise keeps the costs low to start with. And we've seen some that have, I've seen a couple that have adapted an ambulance to be suitable for animals, which is really cool.
They often go on to open a practise sort of a year or two later. And then you've also got, you know, in the big cities like London, we've got real difficulties with travel and parking. Often, there isn't any parking at the practise.
So if the vets can go to the client or just those clients that are less mobile and they can't make special arrangements and they don't want to compromise on the care, it's lovely that you've got all these ambulatories where the vet can go to them. Yeah, we've definitely been speaking to some vets who are ambulatory. And that's not just with horses, obviously, which is the obvious one.
But it it is, you know, with small animal practises. Also, as you say with an ambulance, where they can do some operations in. And then, of course, the specialist euthanasia clinics are coming as well.
Just going out, you know, helping people in in those sort of final days, final weeks and months with their precious pets as well. Obviously, with MVS, as part of the MVS Group, the wholesaler, you'll probably have an idea of how many practises you know, you've you've opened if you like or or you know, have come to you for the wholesale services. Do you have any idea of numbers over the last year or so?
Yes. Looking. At the last two years, we've worked with over 200 new start ups.
It's a big number, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's really surprising.
And that's right across the country as well. And a real mix of small animal. We've seen an increasing trend of equine as well, opening up with when you look at the numbers.
And I suppose the easiest thing for a wholesaler to look at is, you know, sale of of drugs that are going into the practise, but also obviously with nationwide being part of the group as well. You also can see how many procedures are being done around the cases as well. So are you seeing these new practises really taking off and on the whole being successful.
So selling more pharmaceuticals, using more tests from from nationwide labs? Yeah, surprisingly, Hannah and I were Well, we were talking about this yesterday. I mean, look back.
10 years ago, practises would open they wouldn't necessarily have in house analyzers. You know, they'd start up with nothing and send everything to the external lab. But now you're seeing they're opening up.
They've got all the equipment straight away. We even have, new start ups with CT scanners. You know, the rarely top of the range stuff straight away.
And the growth is very quick, you know, with this massive growth. So some of them just hit the ground running rarely. And as you say that the shortage of bats, we've all got pets during the pandemic.
As I say, footy adopted us because you never own a cat. You do like a dog, do you? So he I his cheap butler, I remember I was at a, a conference, and there was a company, saying you know, we communicate cos your pets can't communicate to you.
And I was thinking, this cat here tells me exactly what he wants when he wants. I think dogs and cats can definitely, can definitely communicate, can't they? So you we're seeing that sort of great increase because of the shortage of vets.
More pets because of the pandemic. What do you think that these new practises have got, you know, as an advantage, if you like. That's helped them with that, fast growth apart from obviously just more more pets and and less vets and nurses around.
Yeah, we've seen they tend to open up in their local area, so they're a trusted vet. They're well known, really good reputation. And as you said, you know, recruitment is not an issue because generally it's the vet that's opening the practise.
And it's We see loads of wife and husband partnerships, which is lovely. So perhaps one is the vet, and the other is generally technology, IT and business, which also helps the vet to concentrate on what they're doing rather than trying to wear every hand in the practise, which I've seen. And that's a very difficult challenge in itself.
And it's a real family feel, and the clients warned that I I've got one practise that opened last year, and the practise is named after their family dogs, and it's in the marketing and it is, and it just gives them such a warm feeling and clients are really driven, and then you also get really good organic growth because they're very happy to recommend that practise to their friends and family. You know, we often see they don't generally market. They don't have to do leaflet drops anymore.
They've got probably hundreds of clients in the database before the practise even built. It's social. Me social media is massive with that, isn't it?
And they tend to start with their own team before the actual practise open. They've already recruited their own little team, maybe people that they've already worked with. So you've already got that team that's gelled and got a good working relationship before the practise actually opens.
And I think that comes across so again a nice, friendly culture. Because I think if if the senior team are good to the you know, the vets and nurses or or you know, the receptionist that they're working with, then obviously they will be nice for the clients, which is how things grow, don't they? Yeah, and being involved from day one, the whole team can have some input into how they want the practise to work, you know, from the receptionist to the nurse to the vet, they can all make a difference from day one.
So they're all more invested in making it successful. And, of course, having trusted partners like yourselves again, they'll know you, presumably from other practises they've worked in. And it's having that full suite that you have.
You know, you obviously have the wholesaler side with Nationwide labs. You have the, you know, all all of the, pathology testing and things that that, you can do and then with vet IT, you've got the ability to to help them with their IT requirements. Every practise now needs a computer to open up.
I'm I'm presuming nobody's still using paper and pen. Oh, I still have at least one. You'd be surprised.
Yeah, well, it's good to see. Good to see somebody's clinging on to, 20th century. It It's, I do remember.
I'm old enough as a vet to remember. You know, those pieces of paper that could go missing at least, the computer. If it's on the cloud, nothing goes missing.
Of course, one of the challenges, though, is around. I think a lot of practise and a lot of younger people, you know, II. I saw a survey fairly recently, 89% of BB A members are interested in sustainability, and I've just done a course with Cambridge University on circularity, and it was fascinating to see you know also how much the cloud is taking electricity.
And then also, you know, the amount of E waste that we produce with our old phones, our old ipads computers in the practise are you Are you seeing practises as you're going around them are beginning to think more and more about sustainability but perhaps just struggling to know how to start. Yeah, I think it depends on levels, certainly with the new start up practises. It's on their mind from Day one, and they have this great opportunity of building a new practise, just like we've done at MVS with our new warehouse.
And there's certain things you can do. You can add to the solar panels. You can think about being more paperless.
So a lot of new starters very technology driven. Everything's integrated, things like your recycling, they will have set up. We offer cardboard and plastic recycling and M BS and also with the suppliers they pick, so it's not necessarily bits that they can be doing in practise themselves.
But the suppliers they work with, you know, how do you How are those samples collected? How are they processed? Even the products you're buying are there in recycled packaging.
Can you recycle it? Stuff made in the UK air Miles, You know, everything like that. They're interested.
It's just more, I think. Still at early stages of sharing all of our knowledge, you know? So the likes of myself and Wendy and our team is saying what we've seen other practises do successfully and implement that we can just share and guide other practises to do similar all the materials that we find.
You know, I've listened to some of your your podcast and filled to sustainability sharing those links as well with practises to to do their own research. And I think this is the key. It's working with, businesses that you see are already starting to take steps on this cos it's such a critical decade that we're in, so recycling of cardboard of plastic, you know, creating a circular closed loop rather than it's a use, create use and then throw away.
You know, it can come back and be used again is I think so. So, So important. How do you think?
How have you found? People have picked you, and that, you know, the the various providers. So that computers, obviously the the laboratories and the wholesaler Is that a process whereby How do you find out somebody is opening up?
Do they contact you? Do you contact them? How How do they get in in in touch with you To be able to then look at the services And do you find that some practises are, you know, wanting to take all of your services because they see it as integrated.
It's quite varied. I mean, we do get people approaching us mainly through N BS, because that's a well known brand. And then we can talk about the whole group.
We get to talk to people in Congresses and, you know, through friends of friend referrals, we can be talking to people that are looking at setting up practise. They can be talking to us two years before they're actually building the practise. You know, it's getting those conversations going in the early days, so they're aware of all the different services that they that we offer and the knowledge that we've got basically that we can share with them.
And this is, I think, one of the advantages you've got. It's a really one stop shop, isn't it? If you're offering the wholesale, the laboratory, the computers, there's a There's a really broad spectrum of services that you've got there.
Yeah, I think sometimes people tend to go with what they've used before. Just familiar famil familiarity. I can't say the word, but you know, it's up to us to open their eyes and let them know what else there is out there.
You know, they might have in house analyzers from one, laboratory, but then they can look at Nationwide laborator for their external labs. We've got such good support there with the pathologists that they actually love their jobs. They love talking about what they're doing.
So there can be personal support there at the end of the phone, which, for a new start up is, you know, really good opportunity. And I think it is that level of support that nationwide could give, you know, we've obviously done previous podcasts chatting to the the PATH team. Having that link with your pathologist is so important because a clinician pathology team working together is so much more powerful than if it's a report that comes in and and you're not spending time speaking to your pathologist, you know, from both ways it can help the pathologist.
But it also can very much help the clinician as well. How how can people, who are maybe listening to this podcast get in contact to to discuss things? Is that something you would go out to see them?
Or is it initial, zoom meeting? How How do How do you sort of start that process with people who connect with you? We It's really tailored and varied.
It also depends on the person. I think we've seen a lot of, let's say, younger generation. I suppose, somewhere I'm in that mix.
But you know, we've got some that might want to do WhatsApp or text, and that's fine. A phone call. We try.
We try and keep up with the trends, but we find a lot of practise that thinking of starting up. They're probably still in practise in a job. As Wendy said, it's we're probably looking a couple of years down the line or they're LOING.
So it might just be that we need to do a team's meeting late in the evening once they finish their day job. And that works well for us. Our preference is face to face.
You start building that ongoing relationship a bit easier. And just yeah, have a general discussion and see what we can do. But however works best for them, it might be a Congress, you know, New practise Academic London Vet show did.
That's been a really useful, useful tool for us to get in contact with these people early days. Obviously, it may sound a bit contradictory, having started a lot of these sort of online training, with Webinar back in 2010. But, you know, actually, a face to face meeting is is so important and actually sharing a coffee or or something to eat and developing that relationship understanding, you know, for example, you have horses, et cetera.
You know how family are doing. That really helps once, once you like and trust somebody, you're much more likely to to buy from them. The the relationship is stronger, isn't it than than Zoom.
Are you finding, though, that perhaps the younger generation are also a bit more reluctant to meet face to face, albeit if they're that presumably they're, they're doing face to face consults every day. Or is that not as much of a problem? I don't think that's a problem.
I think, like Hannah said, it depends on the availability if they're still working in another practise or the local in. But we're very flexible with what times we can meet people and how we meet people. And, like you say, it's looking to build that long term relationships.
We've had people that we've set up in practise sort of eight years down the line. We've seen them get married. We've seen them have Children, you know, we've got that full relationship with them, which is lovely to see, and I think it's also important, you know, obviously the new practise comes on board, and as you say, it's eight years down the line.
It's so important to continue that relationship with with your whole wholesaler, particularly, things like stock control can be a massive area, can't it? If you don't get that right, you can make massive losses and, being more efficient with that, Maybe ordering twice a week is also good for the environment as well, isn't it? So having that continual sort of, chat with with them is also important to to help them to develop and and to learn from you who are obviously experts in things like stock control and things.
Yeah, we do. We do ongoing business reviews, I think, you know. And it it does depend what the practise is doing, how busy they are, especially these new start ups.
They they don't have a minute to breathe. They really aren't busy from day one. Sometimes perhaps need to take a step back and and do some of this business work earlier on.
But, yeah, stocks control, support. Me and Wendy have both seemed to have fallen into that one a bit, but it's it's an area that we enjoy, and we can guide them through the process. Just ongoing support.
They might be looking at, you know, changing a supplier, a new bit of equipment if they want to go back, you know, to basics. So I think one of the challenges we find with these new start ups is they don't necessarily have the business background. So have been very successful veterinary surgeons.
It's their dream to open up the practise, which they do, but we try and encourage them in the early days to take a step back and perhaps do a business course. Certainly go to the, you know, go to all the shows that they have to offer in this industry and talk to us from the early days. And we can share contacts with other practises that have started up previously.
So things that we, you know, we can talk about, markups, you know, fees and stuff. But it's not our area of expertise. If we can share them and say This practise opened up a year or two ago, they've been through the process.
They might share some wisdom or challenges and things they'd wish they'd done differently. And that's a bit of a network that we've that we've built up over the years, which is really nice as well. What would you maybe final thoughts be just on nationwide labs, particularly going around the various practises, maybe 6 to 12 months down the road?
What? What do they see having chosen nationwide labs what's kind of set them apart and what what kind of, comments do you get about nationwide? As as their laboratory?
I think a lot of it is ease of use and support. I mean, we collect the lab samples from them, they get the results. We integrate with the majority of the practise management system so the results can go direct into the patient's records.
They've got the pathologist at the end of a phone line, so they've got that personal support. If it's needed, it's just a whole wraparound service. They've got us there on the road as territory managers that are back up for questions.
But they've also got an account manager internally at nationwide labs. That's there to answer the phone. So basically they've got a whole team looking after them and looking at particularly the collection of samples.
Is that often the MVS truck that's coming in with the wholesale? Will that take the samples, or is it separate? No.
We do a separate evening collection from a lock box, so it is still the M BS fleet. But it's different to the, wholesale delivery driver right. And in the evening, that's really useful, because it means, presumably they're being processed overnight.
So you get an early morning result the next day. Yeah, it's just, it, Like Wendy said, it's the integration. We're finding that a lot of practises are quite tech driven, especially start ups.
They've got a great opportunity to build their protocol and processes around the technology and having it integrated. So we've got, you know, really EAS easy system to book your career. All the PRI, even things looking at your price file being integrated or your lab freeze.
It's overlooked, but it it takes hours we've been. Me and Wendy have both been there and done that. It takes a long time to put a couple of 100 tests in your P MS to be able to just pull that down off the system and and print off your report.
And then, as Wendy said, have it integrated. As soon as the CPD, Obviously some pathology team like you said, have been on done some webinars and podcasts and articles. It's their it's their ongoing support.
I think that really makes a difference. And and I suppose, if I can ask a question about the start ups, the age of the vet or the nurse starting up presumably late twenties, early thirties is kind of. Is that the majority or are they older or what?
What would you say was the demographic? I'd say in the North, it's a real mixture. So I've got people.
I'd say probably thirties is average, but then I've still got higher age groups that are still starting now. So So there's still hope for me, Wendy. Oh, yeah, you've got time yet as long as it's No, I'll look after you.
Definitely. I think also. Maybe with with those sort of younger people you know, in the thirties, if you look they they were born probably the millennium time.
Or, you know, just into the the the nineties, the mid nineties, they're gonna be a lot more, data natives, aren't they? They're going to be a lot more digitally native and much more familiar with technology and I. I think it's been really interesting from what was probably quite a conservative profession.
You know, again, when I set up Webinar vet, I'd gone out of the veterinary profession to see what was happening in the Internet profession, heard about Webinars and brought that back. And I think that was quite unusual then because we were quite a conservative profession. I think with the younger people coming in being more innovative, you know, we're seeing some of, a lot of sort of techy vet companies starting up as well.
The the younger, the younger generation are very familiar and very comfortable and and want to use it. I'm thinking of the practise that one of my friends has that that buddy goes to, You know, they have, the ability to, make appointments online. You know, pay for your medications before you go and pick them up.
All of that sort of stuff is very it makes life easier for the practise. But it's also what the the, the consumer the client wants nowadays, isn't it that ease of going in and out, not having to wait, pay and and pick up the product and go? Yeah, it's I've actually got a friend that I went to university and did my bi veterinary degree that is, opened their practise this year, which made me a bit scared, thinking how long ago since I graduated, but it's lovely one of the things that me and Wendy were discussing quite recently about.
There's a slight swing, as Wendy mentioned earlier of more in house analyzers for new start ups. The type of tests we're seeing externally has developed, so you find in less profiles and probably more complex cases, which are the ones that you need that more pathology support or even the laboratory text. They play a very under underrated role in what we do and their support, and perhaps as well thinking about recruitment when you've got new graduates coming into your team, they're the ones that might need the pathology support.
More have less experience. So that's also we talk about that a lot in terms of you know, what they need to look for in picking an external laboratory provider is what support you're going to get for yourself, but also your other members of the team, too. The interpretation is so important, isn't it?
You know, to AAA load of numbers on a sheet, particularly for a new graduate, can be a bit, you know, disconcerting. But that interpretation that sitting alongside you know learning on the job like that is is so, so critical. Well, listen, Hannah Rindy, it's been great chatting.
You presumably do a lot of this together, the two of you chatting, But I I'm hoping you also get to meet face to face as well a little bit every quarter. Yeah. Brilliant.
Fantastic. Well, thanks again. It's been really interesting talking, and I think it's it is fascinating this new trend of seeing all these new practises opening, obviously multifactorial reasons for it.
But it's it's nice to see the new ideas coming in and having companies like yourself who can can support them in that time, because often they're very good technicians. You know, they know how to be a vet, but that business support is lacking. So it's it's great that you're there to support, because opening a practise and then finding it's all becoming a bit too much can obviously have effects on on mental health and things.
So it's great that you're there to to act as a as a calming hand and a support for them. So thank you for everything that you know the two of you are doing for young members in the profession as well. Thank you very much for having us.
And listen, thanks everyone for listening. And, we hope to see you on a vet chat podcast or a webinar vet. Webinar.
Very soon. Take care and have a great day. Bye bye.
