Hello, it's Anthony Chadwick from the webinarett welcoming you to another episode of Vet Chat, the UK's number one veterinary podcast, and I'm really, really pleased to have Vicky Wentworth with me today. Vicky is the CEO of AIA UK. I've met Vicky on several occasions now, the last time at the Nature Safe event.

Where we were talking all about how to conserve endangered species. What a great setting at the Natural History Museum, Vicky. Oh God, wasn't it just the most incredible environment and You know, you can't help but be in awe, and some of the messaging we heard, I think, you know, 17 species going extinct of flora, fauna and animals every single day.

I mean, it's, it was just extraordinary. We're gonna be talking a bit about sustainability and welfare er later on in the podcast, but it's also fascinating. I love doing these podcasts because I learned so much by doing them.

And I must admit I've met you a few times I've been really impressed, having met you and, and learning now a bit of the back history. You of course started your career with 10 years in the army. Tell us a little bit about that.

Now, jeez, I'll take that compliment, Anthony. So, yeah, really, really lucky actually. I feel like I have been given, a second wind, if you know what I mean, by being in pet insurance now.

But yeah, I started my career in the military. I had a very rudimentary. Selection criteria for the job that I wanted to do.

I said, oh, I quite like travel. I really like people and I like variety. I know what, I joined the army.

I mean, I literally, I look back now and I think my problem solving, I hope it's developed since those days, but Yeah, I, what a great opportunity. I spent 10 years in the army. I went to Sandhurst, did multiple jobs, was lucky enough to go on a lot of tours.

It was when there were a lot of different geographical locations that the army was sort of sent out to. So I did Bosnia, Kosovo, Northern Ireland, Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah, and I culminated my career with probably one of the best jobs in the military, which was squadron command.

I had 300 soldiers who I took to Iraq. We did casualty evacuation from the front line. The most humbling, rewarding, but also probably the most challenging role I have ever had and probably ever want to have, if I'm honest.

I think the army gives you that, really prepares you with the skills that you have in learning in the army to to take that very much into civilian life as a leader in civilian life. And I know fairly quickly after you left the army, you moved to Aviva and into insurance where you've spent the last 17 years. But at the same time, it, it can also for the lower ranks, there's a lot of homelessness amongst lower ranks, there's a lot of post traumatic stress disorder.

You know, I'm a supporter of the British Legion because I think the work that the army do is so, so important, but sometimes you feel that the soldiers get forgotten about when they come back from the front line by government and so on? Well, I mean, when they're in the military, there is a real family culture. So they get very well looked after with within that military environment.

What tends to happen is when they leave the military, there's not always the right support mechanisms in place to make sure that that transition into the civilian world is as seamless as it could be. And actually, a lot of people find it really difficult to do that transition. I often hear people even say to me, you know, God, you're so lucky, you've done.

You know, look at what you've done, you know, you've got a second career, but I always think, yeah, you know what, the harder I work, the luckier I get. It's, you know, I burnt midnight oil, and I shed tears at how difficult it was to make the transition between the military and civilian industry. I mean, we speak a different language, between the two.

So, you know, the army is, it does an awful lot, and I, you know, I genuinely, from the bottom of my heart, can't tell people enough how much it cares about its soldiers. And there are all sorts of organisations out there, as you well know, you know, SAFA, the Army Benevolent Fund, you know, the British Legion, that are actually there to support our veterans. .

So you know, it's, it's just a desperately sad situation, isn't it? You know, some people do sadly fall off those rails. Hm.

I suppose there is such great camaraderie in the army and and it's building those sort of teams, presumably you've brought some of those skills into your jobs in insurance, but I, I suppose asking a little bit of a personal question, Vicky, you know, are the army, can it be a bit autocratic and. Do you then bring that into into the insurance jobs or, or is, is that just an urban myth? No, so, so I suppose there is absolutely, I mean, as you know, there are multiple types of leadership, yeah, leadership styles and autocratic is one of them.

And of course, there is a time and a place for autocratic leadership in the military, because if you are taking out the enemy and your mission is to kill or neutralise the enemy position, there's no room for, oh, do you know what, I just fancy having a tea break now, or I'll do it tomorrow, or, you know, I'll go and do another something else that sort of interests me a little bit more. So that's when autocratic leadership is really important. But the great thing about the military is it teaches you, something that we would call mission command.

So you get told what you need to do, but you don't get told how to do it. And actually that empowers people from quite a junior sort of level in the military to own the plan, to come up with their own plan and to own it. So, to answer your question, yes, of course, there is autocratic leadership, in the military, but there's also an awful lot of other styles and.

If I was to say the three things that are probably the most prevalent that I think the military taught me that I've been able to apply, I hope successfully or with partial success in industry. First one is leadership. Every single person requires a slightly different style of leadership, probably on a different day, and maybe even at a different hour, and having the emotional intelligence to be able to work out what you're receiving when you talk to somebody.

Are they stressed? Are they tired? Have they had a bad trip into work?

Are they really energised and motivated and really up for having a creative conversation? So adaptive leadership is something that I think is really important. The other two things, one is problem solving, really effective problem solving.

So quite strategic thinking, sort of, we would say big hands, small maps sort of stuff. So big helicopter view on the problem, nailing it down and being able to really come into. So what does this mean?

How do you, how do you start to define the deliverables and the actions, as a result of that bigger problem, having been articulated. And then the other one, which will become as no surprise to you as resilience. You are put in enormously stressful situations very, very early, even at Sandhurst, you know, through training.

And the point is, when the bullets are coming in, I was, you know, an officer on operational tour with soldiers. I couldn't afford to lose my cool. If I'm going to pieces, how on earth can I lead my soldiers?

So you build an extraordinary amount of resilience and In my career, interestingly, I've had some bosses say to me, you just seem as if you don't really care, you know, it's all gone wrong and you, and I say to them, you have no idea. The diff of course I care. I genuinely, deeply, deeply care.

I'm just not stratospheric. You know, what he, what good is that to my team? If I'm on the ceiling, flapping around and they see that, you know, how on earth can I expect them to maintain their cool and, you know, keep a, you know, a really balanced view and start to problem solve through whatever it is that's happened.

So, yeah, so they would be head is, is important, isn't it? And I always use the analogy of a swan, looks very graceful, but it isn't half paddling, fast with its little feet underneath the water. Yeah, I've don't know whether I'm a swan, duck maybe.

No, definitely a swan, definitely a swan. So, obviously you've been in insurance for 17 years and in the last couple of years. Moved into animal insurance, you're obviously an animal lover, so tell us what, what have you got at home?

What's the menagerie at home look like? How long have you got? I've got, a horse who I have had for 11 years.

I bought him as a complete lunatic. He's still a complete lunatic, but he's just, he's adorable. I love him.

I compete on him. I compete at British inventing, so I compete as an amateur against professionals. I have beaten some.

Professionals. That's mostly because my horse is really great and talented, and I've spent a lot of time and money getting trained myself. So I've got him.

I have a Shetland, who I bought as a companion, but he's also for my little boy. He's really cute. He's called Tiny Tim.

He's absolutely adorable. I've got, two dogs. One, both German short hair pointers, one I've recently rescued from one of our rehoming partners.

They contacted me desperate for this dog to be rehomed out of a flat in London. She's a year and a half years old, was just too much, just too much of a handful. I've had a 6 months.

She's the sweetest animal and actually really beginning to I don't know, find her feet and actually I genuinely feel like from the inside out, she's confident now in her space, if that makes sense. And I've got a cat who I rescued, and I've got 8 battery hens who I also rescued who came. Just no feathers, skinny, scrawny, not an ounce of fat on them.

They are now beautiful, plump, brown, brazen girls who like, who run across, run across the pen at me when they see me coming. So yeah, I've rescued more than half of the menagerie that I have. I think it's so important, you know, and I don't know if we do enough as vets.

I'm pretty insistent wherever I go, hotel wise, are these eggs free range? Now I know we've got the issues at the moment with avian flu and everything, and I, you know, I understand there's the barn versus the battery. What a horrendous way to bring up chickens and, you know, to produce eggs, and the quicker that, I know that we now have enriched battery cages, but, you know, it can't be enriched enough as far as I'm concerned.

We should really be pushing for eating less eggs, but the eggs we eat should be of good quality from a welfare perspective, and I, I think it was fascinating what you talked about before about your German short-haired pointer. Do you think is there a place for insurance companies to get involved with and how do we do it? It's really difficult, isn't it?

Somebody decides to get a puppy or a cat, there really is no sort of process, you know, they can look on the internet and pick up a German shorthaired pointer, maybe from the UK, maybe from abroad, we've got this terrible sort of import process that's going on that that's fraught with difficulties as well. How do we sort that problem out of somebody getting in a completely inappropriate pet, you know, be it a Rottweiler in a small flat, as you said, a German short-haired pointer. How do you think ?

We can sort that out and. Do pet insurance companies like Agria have something to do about that as well? So, yes, I think the answer is yes, I do think we have we have a role to play for sure.

I think the first thing is helping potential owners get the to get to the right source of information. So how on earth can you choose a pet that's appropriate to your lifestyle? So don't choose a Bengal cat if you're going to be out all day and you live in a flat and it's gonna need excessive stimulus, and it's not gonna have it.

Does that make sense? It's gonna end up being a nuisance. Similarly, don't have a Rottweiler in a flat in London where you can't walk it every, you know, a couple of times a day, and you can't let it off the lead and it can't run.

So, Education is really, really important. How do we get the right information to the customers to enable them to make the right choices? I think the breeders have a role to play.

I, I think they have a quite an ethical role to play in not allowing customers to take the wrong type of dog into the environment that they might be taking it into. Now I know that's probably quite an emotive topic. But you know what, when you look at a German short hair pointer, who's very cute at 12 weeks old, you don't know what you're letting yourself in for until it's fully grown.

And then it's a, it's a real handful. It's got separation anxiety, because they're Into it, you know, it's used to sleeping on your bed, but it's now really big. Doesn't like it when you go out, it wrecks your house because it's you, it's followed you to the toilet, you know, 6 times a day, etc.

Etc. So I think the breeders have quite a big role to play. And then I think from an insurance perspective, we work with, well, we've got over 500 rehoming partners now.

And I know that the rehoming partners that we work with are really, really they just sit on the right side of the fence when it comes to allowing the right pet to go to the right home, and they would rather not rehome the pet and have it go to the wrong home. Does that make sense? So, we obviously have a 5 week free insurance for rehoming and veterinary partners, and, you know, that helps people to make that transition as they rehome a pet.

But I think, let's not have pets go into rehoming in the first place, you know. It is very much around education, isn't it, and I know recently I was involved in a podcast series that Ari had started off with Adam Henson very much trying to educate pet parents as well. Well, my, so the behavioural stuff that we're doing at the moment around being able to identify behavioural aspects in your pet that might mean that it's under stress or duress, or perhaps it isn't as happy as it could be, was actually born out of my German short hair pointer, that I rescued because she was manifesting all of the signs of a highly stressed pet, that wasn't wasn't having her basic needs met.

So, you know, part of, part of what we're doing around that behaviour piece is trying to help customers understand, if you see this behaviour manifesting, you know, itself in your pet, then the chances are there's something missing, and this is what it might be. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, no, no, really important and obviously chatting also about your inventing.

I mean the horses are expensive creatures to keep, let's face it. But I know you've. In the last year or two, developed a really interesting equine product, that sounds very innovative, so perhaps just tell us a little bit about what you've been up to, cause you, you haven't had a, a horse policy as far as I'm aware, you've always just been dogs and cats.

Yeah. Yeah, no, that's absolutely right. Although, I know that most people will understand that we're owned by a Swedish parent.

So we, as Swedish parent actually was the first insurance company in the world to insure a horse. It was the first insurance policy that the company did, and that was in 1890. So we've been insuring horses for a really long time, and we have a lot of data around horses.

One of the reasons I was recruited, probably the only reason maybe, was because of this equine insurance. So we now offer a really innovative market leading and totally market disrupting product. It's a lifetime product, which means that if you insure your animal early.

There are never any preexisting or conditions or exclusions. So the ideal would be somebody comes to us before an animal has any ailments at all, insures that horse, the insurance policy moves with the horse through the course of its life. So if you're a breeder, you sell to the first customer with that horse, the insurance policy moves with the horse, and then subsequently on.

It just means that ailments that horses do get, like ulcers or sarcoids or navicular, or, you know, whatever it might be, you never have to worry about the welfare and the long term health of that animal. It's just, you know, I know that a few of the vets were saying right at the beginning, oh, it's too good to be true. And then actually, what we got when we were chatting to some vets and we explained it, and they saw it, and they were like, oh my God, it really is true.

Yeah, so absolutely proud as punch to have such a fabulous product, that keeps our horses, our four-legged friends, healthier for longer. But as you know, we're synonymous with lifetime. That's all we offer.

We only want to be a lifetime provider. We, we don't want 12 month churn and exclusions. We, we want pets to be healthier for longer.

It's all about the welfare of the pet and peace of mind for the owner. And I think that's really innovative, that the insurance stays with the pets or with the horse, rather than, you know, people moving around and as as horses possibly do more than than er dogs and cats, you know, they tend to stay with one owner dogs and cats, whereas horses may move around, particularly if they're inventors or or horse or show jumpers or whatever. Do you know what, Antony, you're so, you're so right, and it's something that, that has really struck me since I've been in this role.

You know, if a dog or a cat is rehomed, we have the utmost emotional connection with that animal and say, oh God, that's really sad, you know, that that animal's been taken away from its home. The irony is a horse is much more of a of a herd breed, you know, they like to be in numbers, they run in numbers when they're under threat. So actually, they, They connect on a completely different level with the other animals, the other horses that they might well be with on on a particular yard.

And yet we I think nothing about selling a horse and moving it multiple times in its life. And then we wonder why they get ulcers and behavioural problems and, you know, and and and, well, you know, it's because we just don't put the same lens over horse ownership as we do. I know they're much more expensive, you know, on the whole, and, you know, We asked them to do a completely different job.

But actually, something about that long term welfare and sort of health for the animal, we, we call some of those problems as humans, if you know what I mean. They're also not designed to carry a human on their back. And yet that's what we ask them to do.

You would never do that, even to a big dog, would you? It, it's, it's interesting. I don't want to anthropomorphize and over sentimentalise, but one of my favourite books growing up was Anna Sewell's Black Beauty.

It's such a beautiful book, isn't it? Oh, I know. I mean, what, what horse lover hasn't, hasn't read that book or watched the film International Velvet.

Yeah, gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous story. We've sort of talked about the welfare considerations and I think how important insurance can be involved in that. But I suppose from a, a kind of completely different area, we also have to talk about, and I know it's a passion of yours and certainly it's a passion of mine around regeneration and sustainability.

Insurance companies more and more now, general insurance companies have got to look at mitigation for things like flooding and so on. But it's so important that we consider, and begin to become more aware of how can we have sustainable pet ownership, because they are a luxury item, I suppose in some ways we don't need a dog or a cat in our lives and yet they bring so much joy and, and, help with our mental, health as well with soapy water, of course we need pets in our life. Well, you know I do mean that, but we don't absolutely need them, but they bring so much to us from a mental perspective, don't they?

How, how do insurance companies make sure that they're staying, close to that, but also being sustainable as well? What are the sort of things that, That you should be doing and you should be encouraging the, the whole veterinary industry to be thinking about. So we are working with loads of partners now, as you well know, we're carbon positive.

Yeah. I mean, I have a team here that is truly, truly engaged with sustainability. I'm also a complete eco-warrior, so much to the bane of my family.

So, but I really believe that, you know, the environment today, we need to protect it as far as we possibly can for tomorrow. You know, I've got a son, I don't want him to, you know, I, I want the place to be beautiful for him too. That makes sense.

And I think the sustainability, leaving a legacy that is as good as, if not better tomorrow than it is today is really important. So being carbon positive was one of our key modus operandi. Secondly, I think in terms of sustainable pet ownership, you know, we need an environment for our pets to exist.

And there is, there are certain elements where, you know, if that part of the environment doesn't exist, then pets aren't as happy. So if they're not as happy, then we have, you know, distressed pets, higher vet bills, and actually upset owners. So there's something about the environment that we keep our pets in, which is also really important, and that's sustainable pet ownership, keeping it alive, and they all need the environment.

But I think in terms of we work with quite a few partners now across multiple industries, in fact, around helping people understand how we became carbon positive and the sorts of things that we're doing. A lot of people would turn around and say, well, yeah, of course, you know, you can plant some trees, and we do run marketing campaigns whereby, you know, if you come and if you convert a policy with us, yes, we'll plant a tree or several, depending on what the campaign is. For on behalf of that policy.

But it's not just about planting trees. This is about, you know, the effort that goes into the building, you know, the environmental lighting that goes off when you're not in the room, you know, it's sort of like not having your heating quite so hot about, you know, electric charging points, moving all of our vehicles across to hybrid, or full electric vehicles. So we're not got diesel guzzlers out on the, on the roads all the time.

But there's just a multitude of things we've bought Amazonian rainforest, which is sectioned off, which can't be cold for firewood or housing or, you know, so we're helping the orangutans in Borneo in Indonesia, you know, so there's We're drilling wells in Africa to support sort of like sustainable life, in an environment which is really inhospitable, as you well know. So actually, we're really invested in this, and it's not just about being able to go to the Woodland Trust and plant 300 trees, if that makes sense. It's multifaceted, and it needs to be to be able to have the impact that's.

I know that Janet and myself went to Manchester to plant some trees just before Christmas, which was really exciting. We survived. Yes, we survived.

Yes, it was really, really good and I I think trees are a real symbol of hope, aren't they? And actually we are, I, I think it's a real responsibility that we have as leaders to actually share good news stories and be hopeful because there is so much pessimism, you know, you get onto the news. You see all the terrible things happening, shootings, obviously the terrible war in in the Ukraine and Russia, and.

It's so important that we give people hope by telling good stories because bad news sells, but actually it depresses people as well, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But of course, it's desperately sad, isn't it? And, you know, one of the things that we did last year, we try every single event we run now is carbon neutral at best. Sorry, no, at least, carbon neutral.

But last year, rather than giving away intangible things to guests at a hospitality event, we actually gave them all a native British tree to take away. And they took them away. And we said to them, look, if you don't want to take it home, they're only relatively small, sort of a foot high.

If you don't want to take it away, then actually the site that we're on is willing to plant it because they're, that's what they're aiming to do, plant 200 acres of woodland. But native British deciduous trees, which, let's face it, there's just not enough of that deciduous woodland in the UK anymore. Plant the right trees in the right places, we are the least wooded country in Europe and the most nature denuded country in the G7, so I think we as a nation have to start walking our talk and so thank you for.

For what you're doing as well. Can I tell you one other thing that's so exciting. We also support the bees.

So we give, we give away seeds on certain campaigns that are bee friendly. But actually, we've also launched on our website, the carbon and paw print calculator. So you can go on and you can have a look at what your carbon footprint is.

For your pet or pets. And you can offset it. So my pets, I know each German pointer is 71 litres of CO2, and I can, I've offset that.

It cost me £11 per dog, you know, and actually, all that goes back into the environment. So, yeah, so talking about things that we're trying to do to help educate people and to support the environment, that is obviously something quite tangible. I had a cat, Vicky, who adopted me during the pandemic.

As you know, you never own a cat, so I'm just become a member of his staff. And he, he tells me when he wants to be fed, he tells me when he wants the door opened, he tells me when he wants a stroke. He was a little tiger when he came in, he's a little ginger cat.

I, I was afraid of him and I am a vet, but I have similarly offset him as well, so . Yeah, no, I, I think it's there's so many things we can, there are so many things we can do. He's not even my pet and I've upset him, so.

If you are listening out there, if you are listening out there, then do please look at potentially offsetting your pet because it, it can make a real difference. I think if one person does it, it's not a big deal, but if a million people did it, it becomes a really big deal, doesn't it? Yeah, absolutely.

And don't forget, this is It's all about the UK because actually, you know, it's all very well being carbon positive and investing money in other countries, but actually, the environment that our pets live in and that we exist in is here. So we've got to do our utmost to make sure that this is, you know, brilliant tomorrow, as as much as it is today. And that sort of lovelier environment, you know, this 30 by 30 by 2030 we'll have 30% of our land much more biodiverse.

Of course, that all cheers us up when we go into the countryside. I was at a nature reserve on Monday looking at a barn owl flying, and that just lifts the spirits, doesn't it? Oh, yeah, amazing.

And, you know, I've recently noticed I've got bats, and, I just love that it at twilight when they come out, you know, I really, I just get so buoyed by having, you know, species that's so nocturnal and so unobvious. Similarly, you know, we've, you know, I know we've got a badger set, on our land, you know, and there's, we've got deer down the bottom of, the one of our fields, you know, they graze there in the, in the early, early morning light. It's just amazing, isn't it?

And you know, I live 10 miles from the central Birmingham. So, you know. Anything is possible.

And actually some of our cities are more biodiverse than our countrysides because of the amount of wild flowers going into. So I'm a trustee of a charity in Liverpool called Scouse Flowers and. Some of the biodiversity that's coming in, the gardens that we have, if we start to think in a more biodiverse way, they can be more biodiverse than our farmland, although that's an area that again we should be working on.

Yeah, no, I, I totally agree, and we're talking about whether we can buy some land and actually set it aside as an organisation in the UK and have it be, you know, usable by our customers. But, you know, there's all sorts of things that it's ideas around. It's thinking innovatively as a, as a as a fellow creator, I, I understand.

Where you're coming from. Great. Good, good, good.

Well, perhaps we should get our heads together, find the solution. Let's, let's fix all the sustainability problems. Let's sort it out.

Vicky, it's always great, meeting up and chatting to you, obviously virtually today, but I really appreciate all your time that you've given and also all the great work that you're doing across the whole sector. So thank you, thank you for coming in and . Becoming involved in the veterinary world.

Oh, and thank you for having me. Thank you for giving me the airtime. Take care.

Thank you so much, Vicky. Thanks everyone for listening. This is Anthony Chadwick from the webinar vet, and this has been another episode of Vet Chats.

Take care, bye bye.