Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of Vet Chat. In the light of everything that's going on with COVID-19, we're looking at some really pertinent topics and things that are going to help people and equip them to get through, not just day to day, but really look at shaping your lives afterwards, and, and, you know, sort of how things are gonna change for you as an individual and what opportunities you're gonna grasp. I am.

Overjoyed to be joined by someone who makes me look quite chilled. I dare say that my guest today, Libby Ken Karen, is beyond passionate and beyond invigorating. Any of you who ever had the pleasure to see Libby speak or to engage with it or, you know, have the opportunity to be one on one in conversation can't be anything.

Could have been bowled over by just how enthusiastic and invigorating she is. So I'm delighted to be joined by Libby. Libby is going to chat to us about disaster management, and I dare say that many of the circumstances that we're all facing at the minute is almost like someone has come along to our little life box and dropped a stick of Semtex into it.

So, Libby, . Disaster management 101. Tell us a little bit about you and how on earth you've ended up being in in the situation that that you're in now.

Hi Ben, what a brilliant introduction, thank you kindly. I'm where I am today because of a slightly random path of having started off in the city when one of the world's biggest disasters happened, which of course is 9/11. And it changed my life in an instant, and I, and I learned something really powerful, which is that it doesn't matter what happens to you in life, it's how you respond to it.

And I, I happened to be in Hawaii really randomly, was on a training course with Tony Robbins, he was my mentor at the time, and I was growing my business, and I was doing great guns in the city, and I was just thrusting young executive. And then the world changed and nothing has been the same since that event. I don't know if you remember where you were when that happened.

I do actually. I was, I was seeing practise in the vets at the bottom of my road, and a very, very old fashioned vet by the name of John Adams, who anyone who's ever been in practise in Liverpool will know, but like you say, there's those certain moments in life that are etched on your memory. And this is the same, and all of us are responding to this in.

Ways that are really primal, really basic, and the, the great news is that however you're responding is exactly right, because it's so primal and basic, but it's also really confusing. And so my specialist skill set grew from that, that first sort of world disaster, because there was stuff that I learned that catapulted me into a real life changer. That was the moment I decided I was gonna quit my business.

I was running a consultancy in the city. And I'm, I'm a specialist in training and, you know, I'm doing all these great management consultancy things, and I just stopped dead and I went to retrain to be a vet. And so it sort of put my feet on the path that I'm on now.

But the stuff that I'd be learning before then also guided my training as a vet, because I, I, I was watching the people. I wasn't watching the animals as much as I was watching people, and it, and it just really struck me how much brilliant stuff there is that's known, that hasn't yet made it into the vetty world. So there's all this amazing stuff we know about communication and about getting compliance, and, and it's not in the vet school curriculums yet, it's not, you know, very business focused yet.

And there's a real gain by learning some of this great stuff, and I'm gonna talk about some of that today and on a webinar, and it's, and it's about disaster mindset, it's about managing through crisis. So, like you can remember where you were at 9/11 days. When that all kicked off, and there was 2 weeks when the world went into that crazy lockdown when no one was flying, and doesn't that now pale into a little bit of insignificance to what's happening now, where it's not just one country that's affected, it's not just two buildings that are affected.

Everyone around the world is in this crazy state where there's no normal anymore. And you look at the basic things like how you work, how you eat, how much you're Exercising how you're with your children, none of those are the same. And so this has created such a huge state of uncertainty for everybody.

Uncertainty is one of our six human needs, by the way. It's really powerful, really important. We've got no certainty.

We don't know how long it's gonna go on for. We don't know how do I live in the meantime. Like, am I allowed to hear it?

No, wait, I was last week, I'm not this week. You know, we don't know what the world will look like when we come out, and we don't know who will die. And this is one of the most powerful threats that we face.

It's called a mortal threat in behavioural terms. So while I was training to be a vet at Cambridge, I did the other degree that they make you do when you're there. I actually did the neural mechanism.

And there are some really key moments where the human body must respond. We're, we're wired for it. So we're, we're wired to do these actions that we're doing now, like, I don't know if you've noticed any changes, Ben, but a lot of people are feeling tearful all the time.

They've got butterflies, they've, some of them are desperate for info, and they're combing through Facebook like hour upon hour, you know, your screen time is up 72% this week is the, is the message a lot of people are getting. And some people are talking faster or they're, they're, they're being more aggressive. We've got a, a lot of negative threat online.

Several people are going into online wars with people. You know, my number one rule in life, do not row with strangers on the internet. Unfortunately, my #2 rule in life is do not allow ignorance and bigotry to go unchallenged without robust comment.

And unfortunately, I find myself a little bit conflicted at the moment, and that's me, queen of mindset, and, and, you know, I'm, I'm getting drawn into perhaps when you see people saying something just, oh God, I can't not, you try and sit on your hands, but then you answer and then you're off, and there's this. Us overload, you know, we've got so much information being thrown at us. And so all this means is we're, we're being challenged in three very large chunks of our psyche.

One is behavioural, like our habits have all had to change. The other is physical. We've got physical body response because our self is under threat, this mortal threat that I mentioned earlier.

And the third is cognitive, you know, we're, we're dealing with a subconscious load. And guess what, as vets, we are very data driven, we're very rational human beings. Our keyword is usually how, so I'm also a flow consultant, so I look at what people's flow is, and that, that just means what quadrant of your brain is most dominant.

And you can do disc profiling, you can do talent dynamics profiling which I do, you can do Mys Briggs. They're all, they're all fancy words, but they mean the same thing, it's how you're wired. And we like data, don't we?

But the trouble is our logical mind is trying to process something that is being subconsciously responded to. And so we've got this little tiny almond shaped bit of the brain called the amygdala, and basically you can, you can make a little model of your brain by holding up your hand, and then if you fold your thumb in and wrap your fingers over the top of it and then put your other hand over the top, this is a really simple brain model that I use a lot in my training. That little bit right in the centre, that's your old lizardy brain, and this is so powerful.

It's 5 times faster and it's 5 times stronger than your rational neocortex brain, and it just goes there. And this is the problem is your amygdala hijack happens, and before you can even think to rationalise something, you get that sick feeling, you know what I mean? That sort of rising up feeling of dread.

Yeah. And your heart might start to pound, or you might start to breathe faster, and, or you can even manifest as full on, like, proper D++ tummy upset styly. And this is, this is what our body does, waving that red flag, going, help, saber-toothed tiger.

And you know, it's not a saber-toothed tiger, it's maybe an article you read on Facebook, but your, your body response is the same. So we've got this physical, this behavioural and this cognitive challenge at the moment, Ben, and what's really important to recognise is that it's for a reason. You know, there is, there is a reason for this, there's a reason for all of this, and whatever you're doing, however you're manifesting, manifesting this is totally normal right now.

I think that's the first, the first point that people need to really. Embrace before they can get some sort of control over it. Yeah, and I suppose, you know, we're, we're rational, logical people living at this moment in time in an irrational, illogical.

Exactly. Snippet of time, so, obviously, you know, we're, we're, we're all, as you say, scientists and, and most of us have a very, very systematic approach, and essentially someone's come along and shoved the stick through the bicycle spokes at this moment. Time.

What things can people do to sort of just rationalise the irrationality of everything in in their own mindsets. We're gonna go through that in a lot more depth and a lot more step by step on the webinar, but to give you a real summary of what's going on, you've got these sort of pockets that have been affected. One of the biggest ones for this industry that I don't think anyone's really acknowledged yet.

Is how much this is put a little pokey finger into our vetty badge, into our vet identity. We've been told that we're not an essential key worker, and that cuts deep. You know, there is some shame attached to being told you're not important, and no one's probably said to themselves that out loud.

And so what happens is that also goes to that part of your brain that's got no language, so any, anything that goes to our amygdala. It is really hard to process because we don't have words around it. And very often, and this is why therapy is helpful, this is why coaching works bloody well, it's because you, when you say it out loud, when you're forced to put a word on something, you own it.

You own it, and then you can work with it, then you can do something with it, because we move it from amygdala into the neocortex. And our, our prefrontals, our, our rational, our left prefrontal, it compares what's come to anything that's come before. Now, the trouble with this, guess what, we've never had to face these situations before.

We don't know what the hell we're doing, none of us do because it's new, it's novel. So this. Described as a wicked problem.

So in change management terms, we talk about a tame problem, which is something that can be solved by the use of a linear process of events, bang bang bang, do this, do that, do that, solved. And this is why my style of coaching is known as tame your brain, because it's literally, OK, do this, then do that, bang, sort that out, remove your limited beliefs, do that solved. What we're dealing with now is a, what's known as a wicked problem.

That's something that doesn't have a solution. So this is like climate change. Very sad that BSAVA has cancelled because I was gonna do a whole day on this for spivs this year.

And, you know, wicked problems need a novel approach. The trouble with that is we don't know. We haven't got one yet.

We've got to compare like for like, and our brain goes for a bit of human Googling and goes, what is this like? So this is when it becomes really important to manage your mindset, because guess what? The quality of your life depends on the quality of the question you ask yourself, and I'll say that line again because it's really pivotal in everything that that I work with.

But the quality of your life depends on the quality of the question you ask yourself. If, for example, you look at the fact that you've been furloughed or you look at the fact that this has happened, or maybe you've just started a business, and this has really blindsided you, and now you just don't know what's gonna happen next. If your response.

To that is to say, what have I done for this to happen to me? You get a very different answer from your brain than if you ask the question, what can I do to make this better? So I don't know if that makes any sort of sense, but it's the framing around it because things have the meaning you give them, and when we ask a question, we subconsciously attribute meaning to it.

So if your question is, what have I done to deserve this? You know, and that's, you do meet people like that in life, don't you? The the question is, is very obviously, why me?

Yeah, and if you go into that victim mentality, God, it's an absolute disaster. Why me? Why is this happening to me?

What have I done? Guess what your brain does? It goes human Googling, it goes, well, because obviously you're a terrible person, and it finds you evidence to prove that.

And it's literally that basic. So if we do a reframe, if we reframe, for example, a lot of people are. Really struggling with lockdown, and I personally, I live in a, a very small, quaint little village.

There's nowhere to go. There's nothing to do with the best of times when you're confined to four walls. Some of my mates are going a bit nuts.

But the question is very much framed around, oh, I'm, I'm stuck. Why am I so stuck here? And if you reframe that to, I'm inside, I'm so safe.

Thank goodness I've got my 4 walls. Thank goodness. I'm not a frontline NHS worker that's exposed to this.

You know, your mindset shifts 100% in the opposite direction. So, and this is one of the big challenges that people are also facing is this social loss, you know, of, of this future threat of when am I gonna have a night out? When am I gonna have a holiday?

I've already paid for that holiday, and this is another big part of people's lives that have been changed irrevocably. I had a beautiful weekend planned. With my best friend and his husband up in the Lake District, that's gone now, and who knows when we can get those coordinated again to pull us all into that same little space, you know, that's, that's been taken away and, and that feeling of loss for some people is huge.

Equally, there's the other social threat, which is the fact that many people are seriously concerned about relatives. And I've personally just had experience of this with my beloved brother. I can't ever let him listen to this, cos obviously we pretend to hate him.

He's very severely asthmatic. Never hear again. So, so he, he is very, very threatened, and as a, as a child, I had to give up horse riding because he was severely allergic to horses, you know, he's that bad, he tries to die on a regular basis.

He's also frontline in London, and his, partner, my sister-in-law, is frontline NHS. They both got Corona last week. And I went through this mental anguish of every day, not knowing what was.

It's gonna happen to him. And it's a huge thing to, to deal with that. We even finished one phone call just to go, yeah, love you.

Bye. Yeah. You know, we never say that.

And that changed our, our dynamic as well. People are dealing with this burden or supporting their family, supporting their mental state. I saw a post the other day on a Facebook page that I'm part of in one bit, Facebook, which is just like, look, my partner's really struggling.

What can I do? To help. How do I, how do I protect them?

And that's a huge burden as well. So we've got all of these multiple sticks through the spokes, as you quite rightly said, that are just throwing us over those handlebars over and over again. And so it's a real challenge to stay in control of your mindset.

The good news is there are things you can do, and there are really basic techniques that you can do. And I'll be Going through that on the webinar in more detail, as I said, step by step, do this, do that, do that. But we, we have to first start by understanding why it feels sometimes a bit out of control and a bit desperate, because it is, it is.

And even with the work situation, you know, it's horrible, especially if you are one of those independent practises that's just started up. To see it all come crashing down is terrifying. But you know, there's things, there's things that are moving in our industry, and what I.

Really hope and is that we come out of this stronger as an industry and, and, you know, one of the things that I've been in touch today with Vet Help Direct and they've launched their telemedicine platform early, they weren't supposed to launch until May. But they've pulled it out of beta testing, they've frantically recruited a, a bigger team around the, the tech side of it to speed up that process massively, cos they're desperate to help you guys out there on the front line turn this situation to our industry's advantage. And so Vet Help Direct is now also doing a a free 3 months to get people started, you know, and that's so lovely that hopefully our industry will end up benefiting, you know, Mrs.

Jones just wants to chat about fluffy's heart medication, please, and then you end up on the phone and, you know, you haven't had a wee, you haven't had your sandwich, but you've done half an hour for free, I said Mrs. Jones, and, and, and hopefully our industry can start to, you know, actually get paid for it. And I think that's something massive is, you know, I, I think this will give people this real opportunity to, to reframe their own value, and I think, you know, we, we, we essentially have painted ourselves into a corner over the years.

Well, this is how we do practise and we can't change it in case we, we, we affect that er relationship with our clients. But of course, you know, our client's relationship. With us is is changed irrespective of what our our desires at this moment in time, and it's whether that I suppose shapes the long term out of this, but I think, you know, giving people the, the coping mechanisms for, for how to deal with such a seismic change happening overnight it is key.

It really is, and it's really. It's really, it's something I'm proud to do, number one, but it's something that needs to happen, you know, and that heuristic solutions are, you know, things that are maybe not perfect, maybe not optional, but they get you there. You know, they help get you there, they move you forward.

And that is something that I think our industry has needed to do for a while. And yeah, the solutions coming up, like, you know, they may not be perfect yet, but they will move you nearer to that where you can value your time. Perhaps in a, in a healthier way than has been manageable up until now.

So that that's my fingers crossed hope for our industry now. Yeah, well I think you know that sets, you know, an exciting scene if you like, for for the webinar and I think, you know, there is gonna be a lot of positives that people can take out of what is an apparently bleak sort of landscape, but actually, you know, as. A profession, there's been so many times over the years where we've said, oh God, you know, if only I had the time to do this or if only I had this opportunity to do that and you know, because I'm a clinical vet and I work all these hours, I can't do that.

Well, actually this is bad news. This is when you find out it wasn't ever the time stopping you. Yeah, and that's it, but this is the world presenting us with that opportunity to press pause to, to, you know, really review how we do stuff, and I think that's what I'm most excited to hear.

To the webinar is, you know, actually, how do you go about stopping, reviewing everything, reframing stuff and saying right, OK, well, actually, what, what's my desired outcome here? So I think, you know, that is something that we could all, because I think when we're in the problem all of the time, we don't really get a chance to frame what the particular problem is, and actually what we perceive as the problem is invariably not the actual problem. Yes, that's really true.

And we get reactive and when you get reactive, you get triggered, and when you get triggered, you knee jerk, and that's the classic amygdala hijack moment where you just respond. And it, and it's primal, it's because we've built a brain that does save us from saber-toothed tigers, you know, it's great, but it doesn't help you thrive. And there's, you know, survive is not thrive, there's a massive difference.

And when you can respond rather than react, you respond appropriately and you respond logically, rather than that emotional gut feel reaction, which is very often just a survive or get me out of here, I'm in danger. So yeah, I completely agree, and this is, this is a great place to be where we can actually, you know, use this leverage as much as we can and choose, as you say, what outcome do we want from this? Where do we want to be when this is over, cos it will end.

You know, it will end. There will come a point where this is over. Yeah, well, I'm certainly really excited to hear what, what you've got to say, and I think, you know, I dare say that anybody who has had their their reality disjointed in in recent weeks, and you know, has, has had sort of that opportunity to reflect on what they're doing, but actually really want to be able to, to consolidate.

Those thoughts, I think this will be a real benefit to you, certainly, you know, if you've been furloughed or if you're a locum who find yourself in sort of no man's land at the minute with a lot of work cancelling or, you know, maybe you're actually the one vet in the country who this hasn't affected and you're sitting there thinking, oh God, you know, how, how on earth do I manage to get the time to, to, to look at all of this, but, but I think, you know, it's. A really great opportunity for people to come together, press pause and really look at what, what mechanisms they can use for their own development in in in the sort of post-COVID world. Exactly right.

So I, I can't, I can't wait to hear it, Libby, and I, and I think, you know, it'll be, it'll be a great thing for people to engage with and hopefully get some insight. Thank you, Ben, looking forward to it already.