Good evening and welcome to June's nurse webinar kindly sponsored by JHP recruitment. The title of tonight's webinar is Common Conditions in Leopard Geckos. Before I introduce the speaker, I'd just like to do a little bit of housekeeping.
I'm sure many of you have been on a webinar with us before, but obviously it's always good to recap. I'm also joined tonight by my colleague Lewis. Lewis is on hand to deal with any technical queries you may have.
And you can get hold of Lewis by either emailing office at the webinar vet.com. Or by in the bottom, of the screen, you'll see the option says chat.
If you just click on that, and it'll bring up a sidebar, and you can just put a query in there. So if you've got any issues with not seeing the picture, sound quality, etc. Please do just pop it in there and Lewis will respond, accordingly.
As always, we do encourage you to engage with our speakers. So as Sonia is working goes going through her presentation, if any questions come to mind, please do pop them in the Q and A box. Once again, you'll find that at the bottom of the page.
So if you just pop it in there, you can either do it anonymously or you can have your name on there. And then at the end, we will be asking those questions. I'm the head of sales, Rich, and my name's Rich for the webinar Vett.
I don't have a, veterinary background. So when you are putting the questions in, if you can explain your question fully, and try and avoid using shorthand, that'd be very much appreciated. As always, we do appreciate your feedback.
So, at the end, there will be a survey monkey as the feedback form that will pop up. Please do take time to complete that. As I know Sonia would be really appreciative of the feedback because it's, this is the first webinar she has done.
So we're delighted that, she is, doing the first one with us, and I'm sure she'll be excellent, but please do, you know, put, give us that feedback because it helps us develop the programme, but also helps the speaker as well. So, Enough from me. I'm delighted to introduce Sonia Miles.
Sonia, qualified from Bristol University in 2013. After initially working in small animal practise, she now works at Highcroft Exotic Vets, where she has a special interest in reptile medicine and surgery, but enjoys all aspects of exotic veterinary work. Sonia also runs North Somerset Reptile Rescue in her spare time.
I'm not sure where she's failing to find this spare time, but it does say in her spare time. So, Sonia, over to you. Thank you very much.
Good evening everybody. So as Rich mentioned this evening, I'm gonna be going through common conditions in leopard geckos. So, as an introduction, I just wanna have a brief talk through leopard leopard geckos and reptiles in general.
So, Reptiles are becoming a massively popular pet, with leopard geckos being, one of the many species that we end up seeing. I think they're kind of like the second most common, commonly known reptile presented to veterinary practise. Now, they have a variety of genetic morphs, meaning different colorations and patterns on their skin.
So sometimes you will think that's coming in as a leopard gecko and it doesn't actually look like the classical spotted leopard gecko that you can see on the, on the page. They can be anywhere from, from white to all the way to, to black, completely missing spots, having lots of spots. They, they, they vary massively.
And they're often presented with an absolute myriad of of conditions, . The most common reason for these issues is environmental deficiencies. So it is really important that the client researches the, the reptile before they're obtained, but it's also essential for the veinary practitioner, either the vets or more importantly, the, the nurses as well to have a general knowledge of the correct husbandry conditions specific.
To that species, before it is seen in in practise. So what this webinar will be going through is a basic run through of the correct care for the species, including some things that people might find quite surprising, but based on kind of current knowledge is what we recommend, as well as a review of the common conditions seen in this species and a discussion on the common presentations, diagnostics and treatments required for each condition. So, lake heating.
So like all reptiles, lapoge is are licothermic, meaning that they maintain their body heat by utilising external heat sources. Now, they do this by moving throughout their preferred optimum temperature range, which is a range of temperatures provided within their enclosure that they can optimise their metabolism and maintain good health. Now, these temperatures at the hot end of the the varium, so down one end, we should be aiming for between 28 and 30 °C.
Now down the complete opposite end, we're aiming for about 2224 °C. At night, temperatures shouldn't drop below 20 degrees. Now, In most central heated homes, this isn't gonna happen, but if the owners have put a leopard gecko up against an external wall in a poorly heated house, then temperatures can actually drop too low and that can be quite drastic on the health of the reptile.
So what we want to use to heat that is a thermostatically controlled heat mat. The heat mat should cover 1/3 to 5 of the Bavarian and it is vitally important not only for the leopard gecko's health, but for the safety of the people living. That house that heat mat is thermostatically controlled.
If they're not, sometimes they can malfunction, they can set fire to substrate or even cause the vi to smoulder and house fires have been brought on as a result of a non-thermostatically controlled heat map. When you're using one, obviously you've set your thermostat to those temperatures that we've mentioned previously, but you want to have a digital thermometer inside the Bavarian rather than the kind of dial stuck on ones, which unfortunately are really inaccurate. Either a digital thermometer or an infrared thermometer to check that, oh yes, I've set my thermostat to that temperatures, but is it actually obtaining that?
So lighting is something that is a contentious issue, shall we call it. So leper geckos are native to many Asian countries throughout Pakistan, northwest India, but also places like Iran and Afghanistan. They're commonly thought of as being nocturnal, but this is not the case.
They're actually crepuscular, meaning that they do come into contact with small amounts of ultraviolet light. They're often active in the early morning or the late evening. So if they are in contact with ultraviolet light, this is something that we should be providing them in captivity.
It's something that causes endless amount of arguments on the forums and things, but in my experience, leopard geckos that are provided with it and to be perfectly honest, any reptile that is provided with ultraviolet light will lead a healthier life. So you want to be providing them with a lower percentage bulb. So I normally aim for about a 5% bulb and they're gonna be on 12 hours daily.
You want to be careful with the low pigmented morphs, so those morphs that I mentioned can be almost white. They do tend to be a little bit more sensitive, however, problems that have been encountered. With those morphs, have actually been put down to kind of poor ultraviolet provision, so the bulbs that have been purchased are actually poor quality and therefore provide an incorrect UV lights instead of it being linked to it, but I would just be careful just in case.
So their diets, they are insectivores, and this means that they should be provided with as much of a varied insect diet as possible. So this includes things like dubia roaches, locusts, cricket, calc worms, the occasional. Of mealworms and wax worms and Moo worms.
The final three, a lot of people kind of, predominantly feed their leopard geckos and unfortunately they should be fed sparingly. But the most important thing is that it's variety. Also, really, really important is that these insects, where possible, are gut loaded.
Now, we'll get into a little bit more about that later, but essentially it is it's of feeding the mealworms and whatever you're feeding them food. They come in little plastic pots with cardboard and bran inside them. So if they're just kept in there and on that, they will just eat that.
So what you're essentially feeding your leopard gecko is an insect that is just cardboard and bran and therefore has minimal nutritional advantage to that reptile. So you need to feed them. And then they should obviously be dusted with calcium or multivitamin supplement as well.
Now give your leopard geckos a chance to hunt. This is a normal behaviour and something that should be encouraged. I see far too many fat lazy leopard geckos that are hand-fed, which obviously isn't a problem, but really we should be encouraging the expression of natural behaviours.
So, substrate, another thing that people tend to argue about significantly. Now, in the wild, they are found in many habitats. These will vary from grassland to sandy rocky outcrops.
Obviously in captivity, this is going to be quite something quite difficult to replicate because you're only keeping them in a small environment. But as a general rule, we want to try and mimic it as much as possible. Therefore, we should have multiple levels.
These are really good climbers, so we should be trying to stimulate them with different levels for them to climb on. It's something that, some people have had. Success building their own, so something that can easily be replicated.
You, there's an argument for loose and non-loose substrates, but care with loose substrates should be, should be taken, so things like sand or gravel or something like that. I do end up seeing a lot of leopard geckos that ingest this material and therefore will end up with gastrointestinal obstructions. So calci sands is one that is a specific bugbear of mine.
It's one that really is advertising appropriately as something that is absolutely fine for that leopard gecko to eat cos it's got calcium in it, they'll be self self regulating their calcium levels, but essentially it turns to concrete inside of them. So this is one that unfortunately was, was passing it and, and there was significant damage to end up with euthanasia. Now, with regards to how we keep them, so they rarely come into contact with each other in the wild, and when they do, it's generally only for mating.
When they are housed with the same of their species, or even if they're kept with other species, you've got problems of parasitism. When they're kept together, unfortunately, trauma can result. And also it will increase the stress, so you'll have a a more dominant gecko in that and it will cause significant stress, the more subservient one.
Now females have been known to cohabit, but they will have risks as well, and I have seen plenty of leopard geckos come in with significant trauma as a result of being housed, with a female leopard gecko, it's absolutely fine, all of its life, and then one day it's decided, actually I want to bite my friend's foot off, so it's still quite a, a big risk. So that's a kind of general overview, that we'll kind of dip in and out of as we're going through the, the rest of everything else as well into a little bit more detail. But that's a general overview of how leopard geckos, in my opinion, should be kept.
And like I said, it's something that is constantly up for discussion. So if anyone's got any questions that they want to go through the care specifically, then we can go through those later. So nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism, also known as metabolic bone disease, one of the most common presentations that I will see in practise.
Now it's really common in insectivorous reptiles due to the poor calcium phosphorus ratio in their prey species. Now, leopard gecko should be provided with a variety of calcium dusted and gut loaded insects. So gut loading, like we've mentioned, is the feeding of vegetables to the insects prior to feeding the reptile.
And what I do with my leopard geckos is I feed them about the greens that other species will be eating or kitchen offcuts, but I will sprinkle that with calcium. So not only are those insects getting the vitamins and minerals from the veg that they are eating, but they're also taking in calcium. I will then sprinkle them with calcium so they're dusted as well, making sure that the leopard gecko is essentially getting everything.
What I also suggest is, when you've got the little food bowl in there, you can put some calcium powder in there that they can dip into whenever they want as well. Inevitably they'll miss the insects on the first try, so they'll often get a mouthful of calcium at the same time. They are very, very good, good at absorbing calcium for their gastrointestinal tract, saying that it is still really important that they should have UV light as I've mentioned previously.
Now. Metabolic bone disease often presents with soft bones. So you can see in the picture, this unfortunate little guy has got rubber jaw.
Jaw is one of the main places that they'll get the issues and it just kind of folds in on itself and it literally feels like a rubber band. It's a very bizarre texture and seeing it's quite depressing. The legs are another place that they'll, they'll find it.
So one of our things that we'll do in a clinical exam is pop that leopard gecko on the table and try and watch it move. And sometimes you can actually see the legs collapsing underneath the weight of that reptile. .
So yeah, it's, it's not great. So this is one that I had in, in practise, and as you can see again, it's, it's jaw was actually fractured in this instance and its legs were given way under the, underneath it. It had other issues going on with it as well, but the striking was the the metabolic bone disease that was present.
So you can see in this one, it can often cause, fractures. This is a carphosis of the spine caused by metabolic bone disease, and this is one that was actually nursed back to health, which is questionable ethically, but we'll get into that in a little bit. But this one had severe spinal, abnormalities, but was he in and active and doing everything OK?
More of the exception than the rule. Diagnosis is based on a clinical exam, history, so has that owner been giving it calcium? Has it been gut load in the insects?
Has it been provided with UV light? It's becoming a more common occurrence than it is, which is good. You can also do bloods and radiographs as well to fully assess that reptile.
Now with regards to treatment, in severe cases, unfortunately, the only option is sometimes euthanasia, but in the more mild cases, provision of appropriately UV light, calcium supplementation, but if there are already pathological changes, then analgesia, hydration and support feeding are really important. So this this abnormal shedding. Now this is commonly associated with poor care, so we often see it with inappropriate temperatures, humidity, poor diet, so if they've got hypovitaminosis A, for example, again, insects that haven't been gut loaded or provided with a vitamin supplement, and in some cases, traumatic injury can cause it as well.
Now the main places that tend to be affected are the tail. So this is the same leopard gecko, obviously got retained on its tail. This is another one, unfortunately, with severe metabolic bone disease.
This one actually had about 15 pathological fractures, on X-ray, which was, taken postmortem in, in this case. But as you can see around the head and the eyes and the digits are quite severely, I've got lots of retained shed on them. The fingers will often see, the digits slight necrotic ends to them where the shed is left on those digits.
It becomes quite, dry and it will be quite constricting and it will cut the circulation off, and it's quite often that you end up doing a clinical exam on a leopard gecko and it's missing all of its fingernails. Some people think that that's actually completely normal, that they're not supposed to have fingernails on their feet, which just kind of brings to light how normal people think that the the shedding issues are. So you'll often get swollen eyelids as well, and secondary eye infections are actually something that's quite common.
So they'll often have white or yellow semi-solid material inside there, often as a, as a result of subsequent hypervitamiosis A as well. But once that's there, then bacteria will accumulate, and we often have quite severe, bacterial infections secondary to that. The diagnosis, obviously, clinical exam, if you see shed that's stuck there and it's been there for a while, which would be quite obvious, if there's necrosis on, from what the owners are saying, and then you've got your diagnosis.
Now, treatment, improve the husbandry, this is something that will predominantly have, some sort of deficiency in the environment. We want to go down the route of regular bathing to soak off the retained shed, temporary increase in the humidity, which you can do by providing a hide filled with moist and moss. Unfortunately, amputation of severely necrotic areas has to be considered, so I have had to amputate limbs before that have been so severely damaged because of the retained shed that they're just not salvageable, and it's actually better to remove the painful bit than to leave it behind.
We wanna do culture sensitivity of any infected lesions and appropriate antibiosis as a result. Iodine bathing, application of topical antiseptics to the lesions, pain relief, rehydration and nutritional support. Something like, regular eye flushing is often needed when dealing with a secondary ocular infections, or if there's significant retained shed in and around that area, which obviously should be performed by a vet or a nurse.
And sometimes if they, if they can't see, they're not gonna hunt. Therefore, we're gonna need to nutritionally support. Them as well.
Now, we can either do this, by stomach tubing them. I've placed esophagostomy tubes before, which is not fun and fiddly, but it works. If the owners are sensible and able, then, slow syringe feeding is something like 5 to 10 mL per kilo of a suitable food supplement, such as, Emirate, for example, once or twice a day, depending on the weight of the gecko.
So, reproductive disease, male reproductive disease, so we're looking at the hem penises. There are two. Sometimes they will end up having a prolapse of these as a result of, straining of, again, hypervitaminosis A if they've got hemienile plugs, hypersexual activity as well.
Now, the prognosis depends on the degree of trauma to the tissue. So essentially, how long that tissue has been left out, does tend to be a general thing that the owners will contact people for advice online rather than go into their vets now. So God knows how long it's been out in some instances.
The hemine play absolutely no role in in urination. It's only reproduction. So actually, when you say, OK, well I need to remove your, one of your leopard gecko's penises and the owner inevitably goes pale.
Then it's actually, you can explain to them that has no role in urination. You should always investigate the underlying cause. Now this isn't just for male reproductive prolapses.
This is for any prolapse in any reptile. There's no good just poking it back in and hoping that it's going to stay, stay in there. There is a reason that it has come out, and you need to investigate that and encourage the vet to investigate, specifically what is going on.
So if it's mild while you're investigating, pop it back in. You can place a stay suture in there, we tend to avoid the purse string sutures now in favour of, of just a simple interrupted pattern, . And in some severe cases, you can obviously amputate.
So female reproductive disease is not particularly common, compared to other species. Bearded dragons, it's going to be incredibly common, and it's not a day goes by that we're not spaying a bearded dragon at the moment, it seems. But in, in leopard geckos, I've only done a few of the surgeries, I think.
Yeah, it's not particularly common, and pre-ovulatory follicular stasis is specifically a young female issue. It has often been linked to inappropriate husbandry, such as inadequate lighting and and supplementation. So some of the things that the gecko will present with are anorexia.
They'll present lethargic, they'll often collapse with quite a distended salamic cavity or abdomen. They're sometimes present with pathological fractures. They've obviously been pouring a lot of calcium into making these, these follicles and then hopefully would be eventually eggs, .
And as a result, they can, if they're not supplemented appropriately, like we've already discussed, and they can take that from their own bones, which we will end up with fractures. So the best thing for it is swift surgical intervention, which will involve remoment of the follicles and you can assess the rest of the reproductive tract and remove it if if disease, but most of the time we just perform an ovarectomy unless there are other issues going on. Now, swift surgical intervention once diagnosed is the best thing that you can do.
Once you've done that, then obviously the correct husbandry should be assessed. They need to be kept hydrated. They need to have nutritional support because they've just been put through a massive surgery.
They're probably not going to want to eat straight away. So we've already gone over the nutritional support that they need, and then appropriate antibiotics and analgesia as well. So true dystopia.
So this is kind of like, well, after the follicles have turned into eggs. So again, it's not particularly that common. It tends to be the older females that get this compared to the, the young ones.
But that again is, is, is, is, there are some geckos that haven't read the rulebook. So I'll show you an X-ray in a minute that was actually a leopard gecko that was only a year and a half years old and she had an issue. So again, there are multiple causes.
These can vary from inappropriate nesting sites. So we've just gone down the route of of saying, OK, well, we can not put loose substrate in there, but for females actually, I disagree that they should have a loose substrate in there, at least in a laying area, because if they haven't been provided with one, that's just going to encourage the chance of, of being egg bound. Other things that can cause it as well.
We can have the, stress, brought on by others in the bullying them, dehydration, malnutrition, if the leopard gecko has got obesity, if they've got a reproductive infection. If they've got malformed or absolutely massive eggs, if they've got abnormal reproductive anatomy, so we've, you can get twists in the reproductive tract that kind of block things coming out, or even if you've got an overamorous male that is just constantly pestering that female who's desperately trying to lay her eggs, she's just going to hold on to them for a bit too long. For the oxytocin is unlikely to work in this species.
So even if given in conjunction with calcium, it is unlikely to get those eggs to pop out. You can discover that they're by transaluminescence, which is essentially shining a really bright light through that gecko to see if you can see them. Most of the time, you can just see them through the skin.
But if you do get to go down the route of doing, an X-ray, then the problem with leopard gecko eggs is that they're quite leathery, they're not kind of hard shelled like other reptile ones. So this is the leopard gecko that I mentioned a second ago. She's only 1 year and a half and she had two absolutely massive eggs that she'd been unproductively straining, to push out.
So here is the first one, it's just here. And then the second one is just behind it, just here. They're absolutely massive, taking up the vast majority of the leper gecko's body.
And the reason that this one was brought in is the owner had said, Oh, she hasn't gone to the toilet in a few days, completely missing the fact that she was predominantly just egg at that stage. So again, swift surgical intervention is suggested. You do have the option of percutaneous overcentesis, which is actually what we performed in this one, not because that was my first choice.
My first choice was to perform surgery to remove it because actually it is safer, but the owners unfortunately couldn't afford it. So we did percutaneous overcentesis. Warned them that actually you're sticking a needle through the outside of your gecko into an egg, sucking up the contents and trying to get her to expel essentially the shell that is left runs risks of causing selomitis.
You can be sticking your needle through intestine to get to the egg. It's, it's not the best thing to do, but the only thing that we had in this instance, So this is us, depressing the eggs, so as you can see we're sticking a needle into it and sucking the contents out when she she was anaesthetized and within 12 hours she had passed both of the eggs. Now what I normally say is that if they haven't passed them within 48 hours, then you need to go into surgery.
So that client was warned, look, if she hasn't passed them within 2 days and she had painkillers and antibiotics, in the meantime, if she hasn't passed them in 48 days, 48 hours, sorry, then we would be going in surgically, but within 12 hours, they'd both popped out and she's still going strong. So we want to have the appropriate care post-surgery. We want to be giving them appropriate analgesia, antibiotics again, nutritional support and, and hydration.
Now, with regards to the analgesia that I I normally suggest, we often go down the route of things like morphine and, and, and, and an anti-inflammatory, so like meloxicam, for example. So parasitic disease, it is incredibly common. It's probably again, one of the main things that we'll see in practise.
It's something that every single reptile, regardless of the species comes in and we ask for a faecal sample to be brought through as just standard, one of the things that provides a complete clinical examination, so it's something that is picked up quite commonly. There are many, many different types of parasites that can cause disease. We've obviously got our, nematode eggs, but you've got things like cestos, Coccidia and protozoa, such as cryptosporidium as well.
Now, High stocking densities increase risks. So these are the leopard geckos that are cohabiting together, but also ones that maybe are bought from pet shops that are bought in in big old crates where they're all climbing over each other. It's a perfect way of spreading it.
And if they remain at high stocking densities within short life cycles of many of these parasites, pathological numbers will cycle up quite quickly. So diagnosis is based on a faecal exam. What we do with the faecal exam is that we will do, a wet prep.
So a bit of faeces, a drop of, of water and look at it without doing any sort of flotation tests or anything. And we will also do a faecal flotation. So do two different types of faecal testing to find out specifically what is going on.
Now, clinical signs will vary. We will see weight loss, they can have diarrhoea, the diarrhoea can be really quite smelly, and in some cases, the leopard geckos will just die. Now, treatment entirely depends on the parasite that it is found, which is why just giving out panicure, so fembbendazole, really isn't a wise idea.
This is something that I'm trying to encourage vets and nurses to, to move away from, is that we should only be treating for parasites when we have a diagnosis, because a lot of parasites don't actually respond to panic cure. And it's not a benign drug, it can immunosuppress them. And a lot of the time if they have not been kept properly, they will be immunosuppressed anyway.
So it's something that we should only be treating them once we have a diagnosis. Now, cryptosporidium is a bigger issue. When it comes to cryptosporidium, specifically cryptosporidium scifilium, the effects can be absolutely devastating in a collection.
It will often cause severe muscle wastage. As you can see in this little guy, it's not the worst case I've ever seen, but as you can see, it's tail's pretty much gone. It's stick thin, it's spines.
This problem, it can, it can really devastate a collect potentially not, doing the best hygiene. The diagnosis is based on demonstration of the parasite and faecal sample, or on regurgitated material, and then Eliza is also available. Cryptosporidium is, however, intermittently shed.
So if we're getting a diagnosis from a faecal sample, a 3 to 5 day pulled faecal sample is suggested. You can go down the route of doing stomach washes and biopsies and things like that. However, the parasite mainly affects the intestines.
So if you're reading a book where you can do a stomach wash, again, you could still be missing it because it's predominantly in the intestines. So yeah, the method tends to be not as diagnostic as what we would like. It is incredibly hard to eradicate in the environment due to its resistance to many disinfectants and sadly, there is no cure.
So it is something that once divans, if that leopard gecko's quality of life, is, is poor, or if they pose a risk to other reptiles in that collection, then euthanasia should be, considered. Paramycin has showed promise in resolving clinical signs, but Gecko started shedding the cryptosporidia six weeks after this discontinuation in clinical signs recurred. So that there have been medications postulated to, to, to work, but unfortunately, they will always end up severely emaciated, which will lead to euthanasia.
So. Not only have you got that, but you've also got all the equipment that they've come into contact with, poses a risk to other reptiles because of its resistance in the, in the environment. So it might sound extreme, but what I have suggested in the past is, OK, well, we've diagnosed cryptosporidium quite often on a postmortem.
If we have sacrificed the sick one for the good of the rest of the collection, right, everything that it's come into contact with all of its equipment in the Viv, be it, essentially, and, and don't use that Bavarian again. So, gastrointestinal obstructions. So common when it's on loose substrate.
Now, if lots of geckos can be kept on loose substrates successfully, now those that keep them on loose substrates successfully often have really good environmental care. However, if you've got someone that hasn't got the temperatures right, hasn't got the humidity right, hasn't got appropriate UV lighting, that will increase the chances of obstructions on loose substrate. So Kelsey sand literally hate the stuff, it, it just turns to to concrete inside them.
So I personally don't recommend using loose substring, however, This was an obstruction that was actually passed medically in the end, the owner wouldn't let me take it to surgery and proved me wrong with it passing it itself, but never mind. But it was kitchen towel, so they'd not done the, the loose substrate. They'd put it on kitchen towel and what did the leopard gecko do?ate nearly half a sheet of the stuff.
So there's no accounting for taste, really. So clinical signs will vary from anorexia, weight loss, lethargy, again. Salamic swelling.
I mean, if you, if you've got a leopard gecko with a calcius sand obstruction, for example, you're gonna be feeling it. Like that X-ray show, they can be absolutely massive, and often they will be straining unproductively, which can lead to prolapses, which is again, why it's really important that if you have any sort of prolapse, you should be investigating. Diagnosis, we can base that on palpation, transaluminescence like we've already discussed, or radiographs.
And in minor cases, medical management alone, such as lactulose, regular bathing, sitting on the, the, the gecko on something that vibrates, can work really, really well. As can warn enemas. However, if this doesn't work, and then more severe cases, surgical management is needed so that the leper gecko that put the X-ray up, actually went straight to surgery and he's doing really, really well now, luckily, and has come off cal sand finally.
It cost him a bit to work that one out, unfortunately. And prevention is much better than cure. So if you're insist on keeping your leopard geckos on a new substrate, make sure that your environment is as spot on as it can be.
So traumatic injuries. So we often get these with inappropriate handling, if they're inappropriately housed with non thermostatically controlled heat sources, so they get a burn, if they're housed with other leopard geckos or if they come into contact with pets in the household. So get a lot of cat bites.
I've had dog bites before, I've had a ferret bite, from, from a pet ferret that got a little bit too close to the leopard gecko. And some of these wounds can be really, really severe. Prognosis obviously depends on the, the severity, but limbs can be fractured resulting in amputations.
There can be internal injuries as a result of puncture wounds and burns unfortunately can also be life threatening depending on the the degree of burning that we've got. When we get a gecko presented to us, we should investigate those wounds thoroughly. This often involves debridement under general anaesthesia and exploratory surgery if necessary, or conscious radiographs in the case of of fractured limbs.
Most of the time, funnily enough, if their leg is broken, they don't want to move off the X-ray plate so you can get fairly decent pictures. So this was a leopard gecko that was brought to me that had lived with its sister all of its life, hadn't had a single problem with it until one day its sister decided, actually your foot looks pretty damn tasty. So I'm going to have a chump of that.
Now, when we X-rayed it, it had clearly been there for a while, and there was significant trauma. I mean, it, it pretty much fractured its entire, joints, and part of its leg as well, so he amputated. Obviously I've just shown you a picture of a foot that was injured and I've just showed you where I'm amputating it right at the at the body, but because of their anatomy, when you do perform amputations, actually taking it as close to the body as possible is actually better for them.
So we will treatment will often involve appropriate analgesia, antibiotics, nutritional support, hydration, improve the care at home, I guess you guys are probably seeing a pattern here with regards to what we need to do. Now autotomy, this is a defence mechanism. It is something that they will do when they are attacked by a predator in the wild.
Now eagle eye viewers of you will understand that this is not in fact a leopard gecko, but it kind of showed you the best picture that I that I had and it's closer. . So you can see that the stem is necrotic at the end, and what we have done, is amputated this tail, .
Care should be taken when handling this species, because if they're grass by a tail, they will tend to drop it as a result. It does make things like blood sampling and intramuscular injections quite interesting, so they should never be given in the in the tail, no matter how meaty it looks, because it will stimulate them to drop that tail. There are various cleavage zones within the tail, and a section of tissue is injected will twitch for several minutes once it's attached with the aim of distracting a predator so the gecko can make its escape.
The tail will regrow, but it's never really to the same extent. The, the tail has a more of a cartilaginous core rather than a bony one, and the tail is often stunted in a a different colour and pattern to what it has been previously. In the captive environment.
It can be very tempting if you do, get one to to kind of suture it close, but just leave it alone. Just keep it nice and clean, remove any loose substrate, and don't stitch it. So this is one that, again, we, we had it had a necrotic tip to it, so we stimulated it to to drop its tail.
And we just leave it open and within a few days, it will start kind of closing over and within a few weeks you've got some semblance of a, a normalish tail growing back. So again, we utilise this when dealing with tail pathology. So I've just mentioned two cases that leopard geckos and or cave geckos or whatever we had.
And the other one has, has damaged the tip of its tail, and what we can do is, is anaesthetize that reptile in inside one of those cleavage zones, so where we've Where we've got these kind of ridges on the tail, we can incise in between those and what that will do is they will stimulate the the gecko to drop its tail, keep it clean, don't stitch it, make sure that they're keeping it clean at home with no loose substrate and jobs are good. So, in conclusion, it's really essential for, for both the client but also the treating vet, the nurses who are looking after those leopard geckos in practise, that they understand the correct care and what we should be providing for them. This includes the correct heating, lighting, hydration techniques, diet, supplementation, and housing to ensure that that gecko, the care of that gecko is ideal as possible to help avoid many of the conditions that leper geckos suffer from, as well as helping the veterinary surgeon and nurse treat them effectively.
Without the correct environment conditions, if we, when we're treating it will be less effective, and the drugs will be less effective as well if that reptile is not kept to its optimum temperature. This temperature is already what we mentioned is when the metabolism is, is optimised. So if they haven't got the correct care at home and you're trying to medicate them, it is not going to make a damn bit of difference.
So any condition noted in epic gecko should be treated quickly, efficiently, and we've swift surgical intervention if, if indicated. And yeah, it is something that a lot of the time it is an underlying care at home, so having the basic understanding of, of what they require is really, really important. And it literally nothing is, is going to work as well as you would hope unless they've nailed that at home, which, as veterinary professionals, we have a duty of care to provide that information to, to our owners, to our best abilities, vets, but also, nurses as well.
And, and certainly the nurses that, that I work with are, are really good at helping clients, even in discharges rather than in consults. They're the ones that are going to be asked, OK, well, the vets need to change things at home. They've taken me through everything, but I can't quite remember what they said.
So getting yourself a decent care sheet and being able to go through that comfortably with an owner, is really, really important. So thank you very much for listening everybody, and does anyone have any questions? Well, thank you very much for that, Sonia.
That was a fantastic romp through sort of the essentials of leopard geckos. And I think, you know, there's some really useful information in there. For those of you who obviously, maybe found they were making some notes and missed any points, then the webinar will be recorded and will be available within 48 hours on our website.
So you'll be free then to. Go back and refer to this webinar at any point. So please do put some questions.
I can see we've got one, but you know please do put some more questions in there. I was at the Animal welfare forum, down in London last week, Sonia, and, it was an interesting stat. I can't remember the exact figure, but it was really low in terms of when.
Clients questioned, would you consider who, where, where would you consider going to get advice on what pet is right for you? And actually vets and vet surgeries came, came really low. I know.
Yeah, and it's like pet stores seem to be quite popular, etc. So like people like Peter. Sean Wensley from PDSA who was doing a presentation.
And so they're obviously putting together information, but obviously, we try and, you know, we want to work with vets to put themselves in a position where people see vets as being the first port of call to do these. Where can, you know, people who are on the webinar tonight go to start to create, where this is some of the best resources to go to start to create those, fact sheets for people who come in saying, actually, you know, I'm interested in, purchasing a leopard gecko, but, you know, is at the right pet for me because. You, what you were saying, some of the things in there in terms of general standards of care.
I'm sure many people think, oh, that'd be a cool pet to have and buy it without really any research, so. That's exactly what happens unfortunately, and they, they, they, they don't realise that luckily leopard geckos are quite a forgiving species. But then in general are very easily accessed.
So as for where people can go, it's, it's a bit of a minefield, essentially. I mean, you can go online and Google leopard gecko care sheets, but you will come up with 5 or 6 completely different ones, all arguing different points. So it is difficult.
Well, I guess where I've, built mine up from is, is essentially going on a, a lot of social media sites and just sat there quietly watching because you will inevitably find like out which pages are good and which pages are maybe not as good. But also when you're, following different threads and things, and if someone puts something up and immediately gets laid into, OK, maybe that's not the wisest thing to do. So it is, it is a case of just sitting, watching and, and learning in a lot of instances, practises that do have exotic specialist, vets like the one that, that, that I work for and then certificate holders and things, they will provide lots of, of in-house CPDs.
We've obviously got webinars like, like this as well, . There are there are a lot of places, but there it is very much a case of picking through the bad information and essentially using what a lot is is common sense and. Essentially understanding the natural need and, and kind of like what they, what they obtain in the wild and trying to mimic that as, as much as, as possible.
So it's more of a, an understanding of the species in general, and what we can supply them, with is, is, it's really important. No problem, because obviously, yeah, . I'm sure people don't set out to give bad care, you know, as as owners, but obviously you misinformation, etc.
Doesn't help that. So, but we do have a couple of questions here. So the first one is from Jenny.
Jenny says a 3 year old leopard gecko bites and injures himself and has bitten owners. Goes 3 to 4 weeks without eating, and he's very unpredictable whilst not eating. OK.
Has periods of eating, well, then starves himself. Viv is good and is very well cared for. When he bites, he latches on and won't let go.
Any advice would be great. He sounds a delight. They can obviously be, they, they, they can bite for various reasons.
So checking if there's any, underlying reason for, discomfort in that reptile would be really, really important. But also trying to, to locate a source of, of stress, essentially, is that something that in, in the environment, I know they say that the, the, the vi is good, . But have they got something, I don't know, that they're, they're in a room near a TV and that's constantly playing and is loud?
Or have they been playing loud music? Is there a cat that sits on top of the Bavarian because it's nice and warm, for example? Is there something external to that enclosed environment that is apparently good, that could be causing it?
Is it a gecko that unfortunately, maybe wasn't, Handled correctly by any previous home or wherever they got it from. So it's, it's scared of essentially being handled. But, no, they, I appreciate that, they do actually really hurt when they, they bite and latch on and, you know, amount of clients that I come in, that have come in, and I'm like, Oh, watch your fingers.
And they're like, Don't be silly, they don't have teeth. And I'm like, OK, we'll stick your finger in his mouth, and then he doesn't have any teeth. So it, I, I, I would.
As a general health check, check that there's no parasites, make sure that there's no underlying reason for any discomfort, so maybe some plain radiographs would be, would be sensible to check for, you know, joint changes or, or anything like that. And if, if you can deem that gecko to be medically healthy, then Something potentially stressful in the environment that could be almost like triggering him essentially, especially if they, they've been like handling something prior to it as well. So I don't know if they've got any other, geckos, but if they can smell things like that on your hands, then, then they're more likely to have a little bit of a nibble as well, but it could just be that that gecko is a little bit of a so and so as well.
I, I've, I've met plenty that just don't tolerate being handled, and the first thing that, that they will do is, is try to wriggle out your hands. They can kind of make a little quacking noise at you as well as a, a kind of like a warning. And sometimes they just go straight in and have a bite as well.
So it is, it can be a few things. So it could either be the clinical or it could be environmental. So just have a look at both aspects.
Richard asks, er, not me personally, in the Richard, what protocol do you use for retained eye spectacles? So, obviously we'll be doing a full clinical examination and a, a check of the the husbandry to make sure that, OK, well, why has it happened to start with and then go through the owner with any kind of adjusting any deficiencies that might be going on. I will try and remove as much shed as as possible.
Now you can try and do this consciously, but if you want, you've got a leopard gecko that's trying to have a bite of you, it probably would be easier to sedate that reptile to, to do it in a, as a less stress-free way as possible. So, you can sedate them, remove the shed from around their eyelids, and actually inside the edges of their eyelids as well. You'll get some in there.
And then regular flushing is what I, I tend to do so. If I've, if I've got obvious discharge in there, I'll take a swab, send that off for antibiotic culture. Fungal culture is sometimes worth considering, as well in those refractory cases.
I will flush out the eyes, try and remove as much debris as possible, and, and get them in every few days to flush them as well. We can sometimes, if you've got an owner that is particularly, sensible, I have had owners that I've taught to do this at home. To kind of save the money coming backwards and forwards, but you kind of have to pick your battles with, with that one a little bit.
Yeah, flush that out as, as much as possible, appropriately supplement that gecko, tweak things in the environment if those are deficient, and then, I normally start them on, anti-inflammatory because if you've, you've got retained shed in there and ocular changes, then you could quite possibly have a uveitis as well, so. An anti-inflammatory, I normally go systemic, and then depending on the amount of changes that I've got there, I'll either start them on topical, antibiotics and, a lubrication or sometimes even systemic plus regular lubricating eye drops as well, and it, I always tell my clients at the time when they, they come in and see me, look, we may not get on top of this. So I always warn them from the outset that actually ocular changes that are quite severe can be quite challenging.
So if I warn them that from the outset, then they've kind of got realistic expectations. It's always worth trying, but at each stage you see them back when you're, you're monitoring them. You can at least assess them then and and and kind of like give them a bit of a a a a more targeted outlook as to what specifically is is going on.
Fantastic, thank you and er Richard then follows up with another question. Are you happy to give IM injections into caudal limbs? Do you feel the renal portal system prohibits this?
This is a a a an entire presentation all in it, me personally, I will avoid. Medications that I know are, nephrotoxic, in the hind limbs, just in case. But there is a, a, an, an argument for not getting bitten by doing it in the, in the front limb.
So me, me personally, if I've got someone that I know or if I'm, if it's me myself doing it and I can safely restrain it, then I use the, the front legs, but there's a The the current theories behind the renal portal system and everything at the, at the moment are, is another thing that is just constantly argued between exotic effects as to whether it is as much of an issue as you, as everyone initially thinks it is. So, I would avoid specifically nephrotoxic ones in the hind legs, if that's something that you're forced to, to, to go down the route of, of using. No worries.
So Richard, in the feedback form, if you could just jot down that you'd like a follow up webinar on that topic, then, obviously we'll put that into the programme and see what we can do. We've got another question from Caroline Carolina. My question is, when you have a happy crappy female gecko that is ovulating and thus not eating for a while, how long do you wait till you decide it's surgery time?
4 weeks in general or till she gets frustrated? I base it on the weight, actually. I will, with all my reptile owners, I suggest that whatever the species that that reptile gets weighed regularly.
What you, what follicles can do is one of three things. They can either grow and grow and grow and then regress and then ultimately turn into nothing. They can grow and grow and grow and then turn into eggs, or they can grow and grow and grow and grow and grow and, and that's when we start getting that, concern with regards to pre-ovulatory follicular stasis.
So, I will be closely monitoring that leopard gecko and if after I probably would say kind of like 2 or 3 months is my absolute maximum of being comfortable with, with no changes, if I've, if I've diagnosed that leopard gecko with Active ovaries and nothing has changed with monitoring over a few month period and that gecko has remained stable, its weight hasn't fluctuated or anything, then at that point I would consider investigating things further. But if that leopard gecko, say for example, OK, well, it's not eating, but the weight's coming off it, it becomes a bit of a a balancing act essentially is that. OK, well, you want to go in there while the, the, theo is, is a decent enough weight and hasn't emaciated, but also you don't wanna, you don't want to jump the gun a little bit, so it does become a, a bit of a fine balance and that's, there's not a right by 4 weeks if nothing has changed, then you go in.
It's sort of like you have to play each case by ear, it's very individual. No problem, thank you so much for that. So I helped you out there, Carolina.
Got another question here from Jeffrey. Jeffrey said, I have had very little experience of the management problems and treatments available in Geckos, but found your webinar really interesting. Oh, very, so just really a statement just saying how useful he's found it and very informative.
So, a nice bit of, of feedback there for you. What, just, yeah, and someone else there, Marianne saying what an amazing presentation. Please do many, many more.
Learned so much in brilliant presenting style. So, you're getting some really good feedback there, Sonia. So you pick you paid your friends well to log on and watch tonight and put nice comments.
No, I'm joking. These are all independent. I will, .
Pay, pay you guys a tenner later, that's absolutely fine. One of the things you touched on, at the beginning, was around, one of the geckos, and around saying, whether it's inhumane or not in terms of the surgery, and I was just wondering, obviously you were talking about, amputation, so in terms of, and that was, it was a topic that was also covered on the animal welfare forum about, you know, people with . With insurance, pet insurance, are they now forcing, almost forcing, vets to carry out procedures because they've got the insurance when actually it's not in the best interests of the animal.
So in terms of a gecko, can a gecko, continue to live quite a full life with a, you know, frontal limb missing in terms of being able to manoeuvre around its environment, etc. And where do you sort of, what's the balance there really? Yeah, I mean, in, in my experience, they actually tolerate, a three-legged life actually really, really well.
I find lizards in, in general, because of their, their anatomy, they, they do tend to, to cope quite spectacularly well with it in all honesty, if it's, appropriately amputated, which is why I, I take it quite close to the body, because if you imagine, OK, well, if you, if I just, that, that one where his, the foot that, that was injured and I amputated the, the entire limb. If I'd have amputated it where just above where the issue was, I'd essentially been almost taking it off at the knee. That leopard gecko's now got a stump that it can kind of bash around and, and traumatise post-surgery.
If you take it quite close to the body, well, it's got 3 other legs that it can lift itself completely up off the floor from, and it's, it's not likely to, to traumatise the wound. So actually, If the owners are a game, and, and I will always assess, OK, well, why has this happened? Is this likely to happen again?
If so, are they able to stop it from happening again? If they can't, it's something that I have a quite a frank discussion with and there have been instances where. That I've had cohabiting leopard geckos, and even though one has actually decided, actually, I, I really don't like my friend anymore, I'm gonna try and eat it, they, there are some owners that are like, No, no, no, they're, they're fine.
And I'm like, Well, they're clearly, clearly they're not, because now I need to amputate this one's leg. You're gonna need to split them up. Well, I can't split them up.
Like, well, there's no point in me doing the surgery, because this is just gonna happen again, which is, I think why I have so many pets, actually, but. It's, it, it, it's something that, again, it's almost like a case by case basis. I think when I was talking about the, the ethics, of allowing something to be treated, I think I was mentioning it with regards to the metabolic bone disease.
I see far too many people. I thought, I said, I, I sit on the social media sites and I quietly watch. I also have to sit on my hands quite often as well, or just remove myself from that page temporarily, because You'll get well-meaning people that have rescued a leopard gecko with severe metabolic bone disease to the point that its jaw is just bending left, right and centre, and it's got clearly got multiple pathological fractures in there.
Desperately nursing this leopard gecko back to health and pouring it full of calcium, and yes, they're providing it with the UV light, but half the time they've won, they've forgotten about the, the analgesia because that is going to be a painful gecko. But also, OK, well, yes, it's got metabolic bone disease, but does it have secondary kidney problems? You're fighting a losing battle and you're putting this poor reptile through significant pain.
And yes, it might come out at the end of it, a fairly functional reptile, but was it really worth putting it through what I imagine is it to be excruciating and pain to get out the other side. And, and I, I, I've had plenty that have been brought into the rescue that have come through the front door. And I have told them, I'm sorry, but I am euthanizing this because it's just, it's not fair in some instances.
There, there have been some that for not wanting to, to sound brutal because we get a lot of, of trainee nurses through and, and interns and things, I will demonstrate that, OK, well, once it's been put to sleep, you can hold this reptile in half. You cannot, you shouldn't be able to, to do that. That is how rubbery they, they have become.
And it is, it is something that you get well-meaning people wanting to fix them, but really should they be trying to even in the first place? No worries, that's fantastic. Well, I could go on all night asking questions, but, I'm sure people are dying to go and find out what the results of Russia versus Egypt is or whatever is on tonight.
I can hear my husband shouting downstairs. But no, all it leads me to do is to say thank you to my colleague Lewis, who's been supporting me on emails and on the chat tonight. So thank you Lewis.
Thank you to JHP recruitment. We'll continue to sponsor, our nurse webinars on a monthly basis. So thank you to them.
And last but not least, thank you to Sonia. I say it was your first, but I am pretty sure this won't be your last webinar with us. And, you know, we're delighted that you'll hopefully join us again soon, but please do complete the feedback forms.
We really look forward to seeing what you, seeing what you have to say about tonight's webinar, and we look forward to welcoming you all on a webinar soon. So, good night. Brilliant, thank you very much, everyone.
