Hello, it's Anthony Chadwick from the webinarett welcoming you to another episode of Vet Chat, the UK's number one leading veterinary podcast, and I'm, I'm super excited to be chatting to the team at Oxford Cat Clinic. I was lucky enough to go here, it was probably, gosh, 4 or 5 years ago, it's definitely, pre-pandemic. I mean, a lot of stuff has happened since we probably saw each other at the clinic, but .
Caroline, tell us a little bit about the history of the clinic. I think it must have been one of the first ever cat only clinics. Yes, it was a very early one.
There were others around when we opened up, but the origin, I guess, is that, Martha and I are of an age where most vets graduated and went into some kind of mixed practise and during that experience. We realised that at that era cats were a bit neglected, beginning to emerge from the dark on the the science side of things and why they were different and how they were different. They weren't just small dogs and that they were perhaps a bit neglected in first opinion practise because we didn't realise what they needed.
So Martha and I both met actually at the University of Bristol under Tim Griffith Jones doing feline medicine specialty. And that was fantastic, but these were a fellowship and a residency that lasted 2 years. Then we spun back out into the big wide world with all our knowledge and realised it wasn't very easy to apply it in general practise in the way that we wanted and we'd seen how well cats flourish.
You know, especially when they're poorly in an environment that's catering to them, it makes a big difference. And so we decided that we would join forces. We both by coincidence, ended up in Oxford and thought what an opportunity to join forces and create the practise where we feel cats and owners can flourish because we also realised that cats.
Cats spot cat people and cat owners spot cat people as well. And it's just a happy environment and that's that's the origin really of the Oxford Cat clinic. And presumably both Fab scholars.
Mark was a fab scholar. That's right. Now I was at the time, I think this company is gone now Fort Dodge feline fellow, so more in education, research and and working in the laboratory at Langford, but totally immersed in cats and under the tutorship of Tim Griffith Jones and Andrew Sparks and Sarah Kinney and really good people like that, and so just got thoroughly immersed in the feline world and feline medicine and, and what makes cat welfare and care better.
I think Bristol was definitely the Pussycat university, wasn't it? It was, yes, it was still very, very good. It is, yeah.
But the feline centre was a real, mover and shaker, I suppose, and again it's spun off people like Danielle Gunmore who's who's gone on done great things up north. So, in Scotland, so, you know, it's it was a great time to be there. I, I suppose people who are, should we say a bit younger than you and I, Fab was feline advisory board, and for those who are a little bit younger than us, yes, you did hear it right, you know, certainly when I qualified.
A lot of vets did think that cats were just small dogs. And I remember, I think it was the BSAVA book which was written by Tim Griffith Jones, wasn't it, that started to really differentiate, you know, you, this is a different species and we have to look at it differently. Yes, yes, and it's hard to remember now because it's advanced by leaps and bounds and of course ISFM who've who've come from FAB.
Have done so much to promote the standing of cats in all sorts of ways, but how we look about their environment, their standing in society and particularly their medicine, medicine of cats, huge influence, but that all seemed to Arise from this, this core body of people and from Tim's work, really lifting the lid on all of that. He must be very proud and obviously you as sort of early people at the place that you see that that's actually spread out because, you know, the whole point of education is that we are open and that we want to spread that knowledge, you know, part of webinar vet was to make veterinary education more accessible, affordable to vets across the world. If we can educate other vets and other nurses and they become better then animal welfare for cats not only is great in Oxford, but it's also great in Liverpool, it's great in Leeds, Newcastle.
You know, in Europe, in, in Africa, in Asia and across the world, so, you know, thanks for everything you did, and I think that history lesson's really important for those who perhaps are 5 to 10 years qualified who perhaps don't know anything about that. I, I know, obviously you take education really very seriously. I think both of you, you and, Martha, who set up Oxford Ca Clinic with you, have done webinars and and and things for us, so you know, thanks for all that .
Support and I know the practise is very much built on educating the vets and nurses that come into contact with it as well, aren't they? It is, and I think actually the lovely thing is now that we've been established so long and because we have the first opinion and the referral streams and because we have specialists and just purely first opinion vets and nurses that are very well educated in medicine, they've got a passion for it. There's a great synergy.
It's like a pool of cat wellness in a way. Because so many people know different aspects and the nurses have done a lot of work and behaviour, and they're great with the cat friendly clinic aspect. You can get too tied up with the referral medicine and intricate cases and it's really good to have that global spread where there are still people saying, hey, we could do this better, we could do that better.
Have you thought about how the clients feel when they come in? Have we thought about what the waiting rooms are like for cats, which is just as important. But also the people are bringing in this education and knowledge, and we talk about cases and try and have protocols that focus on certain specific diseases and how to handle them, .
And I know the nurses are very involved in those as well. You have specific nursing clinics for specific diseases like diabetes. Steph, obviously you've been a nurse at the practise for a long time.
You know, tell us a little bit about those clinics and, you know, some of the, the greater tools that you have to sort of do the work that you need to do. I mean, you know, again, going back to the 90s. Caroline possibly was, but I certainly wasn't, monitoring blood pressure on cats, and we now realise how important that is.
So yeah, tell us a little bit about your journey to Oxford Cat Clinic. Certainly, blood pressure is extremely important. I moved from Kent to join the CAT clinic.
I had worked in a practise that wasn't cat-friendly, and I'd spent 3 years getting them, cat friendly accredited, and I really saw the difference that it could make and the impact that it could have on cats coming into the practise, and I just wanted to take it as far as I could. So, but I applied to work at the cat clinic. And the difference is remarkable seeing them in their own environment without dogs, without the stress of, you know, loud noises and and just things to disrupt them.
They're so much happier. And it's, it's really given me the opportunity to keep studying. I've taken a certificate in feline nursing.
And I've gone on to do a certificate in anaesthesia. Pain control is is really important in cats and it's something I'm very passionate about. I do acupuncture as well, don't you?
Yeah, so I studied acupuncture in 2016. And it's, it makes a huge difference to cats, particularly older cats where they can be on a lot of non-steroidals for arthritis. Having that combination of acupuncture and pain relief, it means you can lower the pain relief doses that you're giving, and they're not having that impact on their kidneys as, as severe as it could be.
So it really, it's As Caroline said, it's that, you know, multimodal approach to each case that. We look at all aspects from how they live at home to what's possible for the owner to achieve and the temperament of the cat, and it's that very tailored approach that I think makes each cat very unique. We find what works for them.
I was adopted, as I was saying, by a cat, and he's, he's actually got so clever, he was writing emails recently, hacked my account. I mean, I'm gonna ask you a question. I, I think I know what the answer is, but I'm gonna ask it anyway.
Who's the most in more intelligent cats or dogs? It's, it's gotta be the cat. Stoic about it.
Yeah, I think, dogs can be great pals, but cats are the ones that have a critical kind of conversation going on with you and are training you. Well I'm definitely on the staff, and he, he very much tells me what he wants when he wants it. He's, he's gone to sleep, he occasionally comes across, but I think he's asleep so he shouldn't, bother the podcast.
And, you know, interesting you were talking about that, you know, now a 17 year old cat. I remember one of the first series we did with Hills actually, and it was Duncan Laces was talking about what is the most common disease in cats and. Obviously as a dermatologist, I kind of wanted it to be that, and then the dentist wanted it to be dentistry, but actually virtually every cat at 17, you know, will have osteoarthritis.
Amazingly, he still jumps and leaps everywhere. I've taken the, the, the approach of getting him on Calencia. What's been your feeling with that?
Is that a drug that you've enjoyed using in the cat clinic, but maybe, go on, give us your impression on it first. And we actually had one of our nurses that was, was sort of interviewed by them, and they did a nice little summary of her cat and how she's progressed using Calencia. And I think there's so much about it that we, we still don't know yet of how much it can help them, but certainly with arthritis, I have an 18 year old cat and he's on it and it makes a huge difference, .
And obviously if you can avoid the non-steroidals with the potential kidney disease, which again, probably at 18. Most cats will have some sort of kidney . Dysfunction won't they, so er Caroline, what's your, what's your thoughts on it?
Yeah, I think it's a great addition to the arthritis toolbox, and for some cats it's absolutely the answer of some owners as well, because one of the things we're very aware of is compliance and we're always looking at ways to make the owner's life easier, especially in old age cats. Often they've got comorbidities, they're on polypharmacy, and you don't want to destroy a beautiful relationship because the owner's trying to give them. Metaam and and all sorts of other medications.
So with Calencia, one another very important aspect of it is it is that just once a month injection and then it's done and they can go on being just your pet and you can go on being just their owner rather than their carer for the rest of the month. And it it's, I think we do try and look at all different aspects. We don't have one fixed cure for one thing.
But Calencia is really important and obviously use alongside things like acupuncture, diet, anti-inflammatory diets can be really, really helpful. And is that something when they're coming in, is that something that the nurses will tend to do those monthly injections or do the vets get involved in that as well? We tend to have the the vet obviously will prescribe the first injection, then they might have a follow up with a nurse in a month's time.
And then the third injection would be with a vet to, to check, you know, and just see how they're getting off. So it's really, we both work together. Vets time is extremely precious.
So it's nurse time, but there's a lot that nurses can do to free up vets to be able to have more time for clinical work. So we do have the older cats in, we do the weight checks, we do the blood pressure, all of these things we can do, even routine blood sample monitoring, and then those are fed back to the vet. In their own time for calling out labs and things.
It just means having the clinics that We can offer So much more time to the owner that the vet might not necessarily have to discuss things like diet and lifestyle. Hm. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right.
Time is so precious and pressurised that being able to know that you've got a really good team around you as well and that someone like Steph, one of her colleagues will step in and do all those conversations and allow the owners time to ask all those questions that they don't want to ask the vet about. It's absolutely brilliant. And this is great when we can work together because obviously there is a shortage of vets and I suppose nurses as well.
So if we can use our team well, use tools that will help us, maybe some digital tools, then all of these things could, can make that workflow more possible, but. You know, I know, when I went down, I think it was just Botley. I, I can't remember, I don't, didn't go to Marston, but Marsden has now opened as well.
. You have this great situation, it's a 4 day week which I think there's so much research now going on in, in just the business world as to how 4 day weeks can, can really work as well. So I, I know you're looking for a vet and a nurse. Tell us a little bit about perhaps what your ideal candidate looks like, maybe Steph.
For the nurse first and then Caroline for the vet. And I think that. The nursing at the CAT clinic is, it's so well rounded.
You, you really get the opportunity to work in so many different areas and gain experience in so many different areas. But you know, it's never a dull day so. I found that being able to gain more skills looking after hospital patients, particularly referral, more complicated patients is really rewarding.
Surgery wise, we do everything from castrations up to Invasive abdominal abdominal surgery for biopsies and what have you. And, and then the whole side of referral with endoscopy, there's just so much to learn and Because we take the time with each cast, we don't rush things. We take each case as it comes and we really spend the time to to work them up.
You get that opportunity to learn in a really calm environment. And I, it's just a really special place. And, and then you get to see the kittens that come in for, you know, and you see them grow up is great, isn't it?
Because we all have a kitten, don't we? Most of the time I want to put them in my pocket and take them home. But it is that it's that beautiful mix and being able to see them grow up through the clinic, as Martha and Caroline have.
You know, they've had cats come in as kittens that they've seen through their whole life and it's, it's a very special place. Having the referral and the first opinion, you know, the referrals I used to love doing as dermatology, but it was also nice to just have, as you say, building up those relationships with people, you know, who came in with the first vaccinations for their dog or cat and you know, you followed them through for the next 1015 years. So yeah, I know it's it it makes the job really special, doesn't it?
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Pop and say hello to a community of over 2000 veterinary professionals by searching. The webinar that community on Facebook. Carolina, no Obviously, yourself, you're an advanced veterinary practitioner in feline medicine, you're also a member of the Australian and New Zealand College of Veterinary Surgeons.
Martha, obviously diploma holder and and specialist, and I know you've also got . I think it's Eleanor and Lauren also working in the team as well. So, this person who would come in as a vet is gonna be more on the first opinion or on the referral side.
I think predominantly what we're looking for is someone to support the first opinion side, which actually is a great passion of mine because like Steph, I love that cradle to grave progression of things and then the cat through their life. And Yeah, that we, so we run a lot of clinics. Most of our work is first opinion, I guess really we're looking for someone who's who's got an interest in cats, possibly a passion for cats, but is a great team player because there's so much to learn from.
So someone that works well with the nurses and can use their knowledge and with ourselves, and we, we do work very much collegiate style. So if a The vet has a particularly challenging case. If they've come to a point where they think, I just need to internally refer this and you look after it, they can do that.
But if actually they think I'd love to do endoscopy or the ultrasound, then they can work with us and we'll try and improve their skill set as well. So it works very, very nicely like that, and then it goes back to them to continue the case and we're there as a. Pool of knowledge.
So we're not looking for someone to join the referral set, particularly it is to do to have that passion for the first opinion side for client care who enjoys working with clients, enjoys working with their nursing team, and loves cats, and most of our cats and nurses are quite cat passionate. But actually we have some that are very, very good professional vets and vet nurses, very happy with dogs and other animals, but I think cats are so curious. I think they constantly present different aspects, different faces because they're quite Subtle diagnose, the more you look, the more you find with cats.
So someone who enjoys that kind of medical journey with them, but we do do surgery as well. So someone that's competent in surgery would be a wonderful addition to the team, but there's lots of opportunities to grow or to come in and and get straight into the team as a as a vet or as a nurse. We have to be lifelong learners because, you know, I qualified 33 years ago and if I was using that knowledge now that would not be very good at all.
And so if you're working in a place that one encourages, you know, CE CPD, outside of the practise, but actually a lot of our continuing education very much comes from within the practise when we're discussing cases with colleagues and I know, you know, you're very keen on. Doing that, as you say with the more challenging cases and and presumably even the referral cases often you're in the, the coffee, the, you know, the, the staff room, you'll be discussing, you know, all sorts of cases won't you in, in, in those er coffee periods. That's right.
So, and then we will try and have a focus session on something like how to we're focusing on chemotherapy at the moment. What are the best ways, what are the best tools to use, lymphoma in cats plays a big role in that. We're trying to pool all the knowledge.
Lauren, having come from America and different circumstances over there's got a slightly different pool of knowledge to someone like Mart and myself who've been working in the UK for so long, but using all this time together and very much involve the first opinion team in those discussions because they're that's where all the cases arise from. So in some ways, the division between referral and firstin is slightly. An artificial division because all referral cats start as a first opinion cat and we're just lucky enough that we can, they can run up and down the the level of experience with our in our clinic that having to leave the premises.
We do refer out obviously we don't have a CT scanner. There are the people, dermatology and rather there's a particular thing where I struggle to be honest, because I don't see many dermatology cases and I'd love the input of a dermatologist and we're very happy to look outside the practise for those kinds of things, but There's so much knowledge within the team as well. Yeah, fantastic.
And. Just perhaps to finish, you know, moving to step first, you know, the. The nurse who's gonna .
Apply for this job. Obviously presumably you need to be an RVN to start with, but what other skills do you want a certain number of years qualified, . Do they need to live in the local area or is the ability to sort of help them to settle in to Oxford if they chose to come?
I, I think in terms of the package, Caroline would need to answer that one. I, I have to say that our the nurses that have been with us longest, myself included, and we really did see the job as, as, as a lifestyle change and, and we moved, you know, fulfil that goal. I, we also had a nurse that moved from Ireland for a number of years, so they're very supportive in helping people to relocate and, and find a way to, to.
Move your life to the local area, . In terms of number of years qualified, we've had a whole range and and everybody's fit in really well. So we've had from sort of a 1 to 2 years qualified that are really keen to increase their knowledge.
You know, you don't have to turn up being the perfect cat nurse, that's, that's not the point. We, we want to encourage you to learn and and teach cat handling and and teach you the intricacies of, of the tiny complicated cat. So, Yeah, I think it's, it's as, as Caroline said, anyone with a passion for cats that just has that, that itch to learn a bit more.
And Caroline, obviously, whoever applies has to be MR CVS registered as a, as a vet, you know, can work in this country obviously, but is there anything else that you're particularly looking for? I think you've said, you know, you have to like cats and you have to like people and you have to like nurses. If you do those three things, you're probably gonna be alright, aren't you?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it reflects really what Stef has said so well that someone that comes in with an open mind, a willingness to learn, a willingness to work as a team, and interesting cats, they'd fit in very well. They do work, they will be working at Botley, which is the more established clinic and currently where the referral work is held, and so you can learn a lot there and you've got Colleagues around you, but also 1 or 2 days a week, you're likely to be working at the Marston clinic where sometimes you're working solo as a veterinary surgeon.
You obviously have a probably a very experienced veterinary nurse working with you and a receptionist and often an animal nursing care assistant, . But you a new graduate might struggle there. So, but often when people start with this, we'll start them predominantly at Botley.
So they get into the way of things and learn about what our ethos is, what learn about cat handling as well, because it's a different tempo. We had a student this week. Lovely, but he said it's quite different.
One of the different things, one of it is the tempo with cats. You can't raise things. You can't force things.
You have to work with them. The nurses are wonderful at teaching that. So how long are your consultations, Caroline, for the, for the first opinion.
They're 20 minutes as a rule, if we know we're seeing a senior cat, they'll get 30 minutes. If we know that we've got something that's going to occur in that consult, such as blood pressure or blood test, then it's 30 minutes, but the routine appointments are 20 minutes. And that gives, you know, I always said with the dermatology when I was doing that.
You know, obviously I knew a bit more about dermatology than probably the person who referred it, but actually the biggest gift was just having a full hour as I did with the clients, and often, if you take the good history, actually, you know, the diagnosis is often . You know, you have an idea what it is even before you've touched the animal, but that history is, is so important and as you say, you can't rush that and you can't rush cats. Cats will work at their own pace, won't they?
Yes, that's right. And funny enough, it's an area we've been talking about rather than doing a series of 3 30 minute consultations if you've got a really poorly cat. Have a conversation with the owner and perhaps suggest having an hour long consultation where we really do a holistic approach might be better than than jumping day to day and that's of course what happens with the referral.
So that's a very comfortable fit at the clinic to be able to introduce that aspect. And if necessary, you can obviously admit an animal for more tests and that they come back later to pick up the cat, so there's that flexibility. And sounds, you know, obviously I've been down to Botley a number of years ago now, but I love the work that that you do.
Part of Webinarett's vision is to have the world's most confident vets, and we do that, you know, they've got the best education coming through. They commit to learn when you walk into a consulting room, you feel more confident that you can sort the problem out and, and let's face it, despite some of the negative press we hear, for me, I still, if I could go back 30 years, would still want to be a vet. And I think nurses kind of on a similar level as well, although I've never been a nurse.
It is one of, if not the best jobs in the world, isn't it? Yeah. The great thing about cat nursing is there's no heavy dogs and it's all calm and quiet.
My Yeah my back will last another 10 years. But I, you know, I would highly recommend people who maybe want to change into a cat clinic to, to really consider Oxford CA clinic. I love the idea of the, the 4 day week, you know, again, and I know Caroline, you're a bit younger than me, but we did a lot of on-call in in our day and I know now there's also an on-call clinic that looks after the, the, the, emergencies in the evening, although.
Because you are a referral unit, you will have cases that you sometimes keep in overnight if that's for the best . Welfare of the cat, and I think that's so important that we always place, I always talk about the triangle, in fact I've turned it into a square now because I want to look at environment as well, but that that relationship between the cats. The vet and the owner, and I've always said whenever I was doing consults, the most important person in the room is, is the pet, isn't it?
Yes, yes, that's why you're all assembled there together is for that, that cat. Yeah, we're all working to try and make that, you know, improve the cat's welfare and its health, of course. I I, I really, we, we've not mentioned it.
I mean, it kind of can be taken as granted that you're an ISFM member and of course both clinics are gold cap friendly clinics. ISFM is, is such a good charity, it does such great work and the conferences are always good. I know you're missing this year's Caroline, I will wave at you from Dublin over to to Oxford.
So look out for. I'm quite tall, so you might be. But I'm looking forward to seeing Martha there and I do hope you have success.
This is a practise that whoever goes to it will be blessed to be in it, so I'm I'm looking forward to hearing good news from you next time I speak, Caroline. Oh, thank you so much. It's been great to chat as well.
Thank you so much, Anthony. Thanks everyone, er thanks for listening. A potpourri there of interesting stuff around Buddy, around Calencia, around all the things that we can do with cats if we give them a bit more time and don't rush them.
It's, as I've said, a, a, a clinic that I would highly recommend. And, as I say, looking forward, hopefully to seeing you both soon and who knows if I'm popping past in the Oxford area, I'll, I'll come in for a coffee. You're always welcome.
Take care, thanks everyone. Bye bye. Thank you, bye bye.
