Hi everybody and welcome to another special episode of Vet Chat, and today I am delighted to be joined by Joe Hein, the president of the British Veterinary Nursing Association, or as many of us know it, the PVNA because we can't be bothered stringing together a full sentence and we just throw the first letters of everything together. Joe and I are delighted to be having a chat about. The upcoming BVNA digital alternative to a congress, that is, this is us.

Now, short of getting instantly dragged into the mentality where I go straight to a scene from The Greatest Showman, and there's people singing and dancing. Joe, I just wonder if you can just give us a little bit of an insight into. You know, the sort of the idea behind what you guys are doing, why you've gone down this different avenue, and rather than just putting, you know, that that physical congress agenda into a digital congress, why you've decided to sort of shake things up a little bit with this year's er BVNA event.

Thanks, Ben, and thanks for having me. Yeah, really, we we. We wanted to do something really different.

We were all devastated that we couldn't hold our Congress as normal, and obviously it was the right thing to do, to keep everybody safe, we couldn't have a face to face congress. So we had lots and lots and lots of meetings about what we could actually do, and my kind of idea was let's capture what we, the the. That happens at Congress because there's so much online CPD at the moment and people are putting their congresses online, which is amazing to still be able to access all this great CPD.

However, we haven't yet found anything really that had the real connection of, of what happens when nurses specifically, I think, get together at BBNA Congress. And it's the fun. It's coming back and seeing our old friends that maybe we only see once or twice a year and getting together with new friends.

And, and it really is that kind of family feel that the BVA, we like to have that family feel and we do all come together and enjoy ourselves. And, you know, we, we learn hard and we party hard as well, and we're trying to capture some of that with this celebration. And being such a tough year as well, we wanted to celebrate the diversity, the variety of what nurses do, and it's so much more than just a cleaner or just an anaesthetist or just a rep or just an education.

It's such a diverse role. So, and you can see that through our programme as well with the CBD that we are providing, then it's maybe not quite the norm and. We've reached out to our members as well, so we have this kind of brainchild of how we wanted it to be.

And then we felt it was really important that we reached out to our members and said, OK guys, this is what we're thinking. What do you think? So we kind of gave the power back to them a little bit as well and said, what speakers do you want to see?

What workshops do you want? And, you know, which kind of key influences would you like to see interviewed just to make sure that we were going along the right lines and we weren't completely off in left field. Yeah, and I know that certainly, you know, global pen manufacturers have gone into receivership on the basis that vet nurses aren't going to be pilfering thousands of pens from stands over the congress.

But of course, you know, Congress is much more than the, the, the smashing grab that I know we all love. I mean certainly the amount of times that I mean you and I say been to, we'll go with multiple congresses over the years and and you know, there is that sort of real. Fun community networking event to that a physical event does bring, and of course, you know, a digital event can't replace that.

And and I think the interesting thing is you guys aren't trying to replace it, but you're looking at a twist on, on, you know, the sort of just CPD element to to a congress. Now, you know, you, you've touched on what vet nurses do. And I think, you know, you would, any of us who have been in practise would say that, you know, the role of the vet nurse, uncontroversially in my eyes, relative to the amount that people get paid for what they do, is a, you know, a hard role.

What, what are you hoping that people get out of this as an event? So, absolutely, I agree, it's a very hard, hard role indeed. I can often feel quite underappreciated, undervalued in many ways, not just the pay aspect, but within the team and within the community as well.

I think that's really been highlighted during this pandemic, and I was gonna try and go the whole, the whole podcast without mentioning the word pandemic, but as long as we don't mention unprecedented, we'll be alright. That's really highlighted that because teams have come together and I think there's been a, there's been a greater. Understanding of other people's roles within the veterinary team, however, I think there's also been a shift in public perception, and maybe we've been copping the flack a little bit more than we normally would.

So, so teams are very, very stressed, physically and emotionally are absolutely exhausted, you know, we're, we're kind of on our knees doing our absolute best. So this event is to try and give people a bit of hope, a bit of spirit, a bit of down time, even though they. CPD mixed in, it's supposed to be fun, relaxing, uplifting, inspirational, all these kind of buzzwords that I can just kind of keep throwing at you.

It's, it's supposed to be, you know, some time for you as a, as a veterinary professional, whether you're joining us as a nurse, as a BCA, as a receptionist or a vet, it doesn't matter if you're, if you work in clinic, you're always welcome to to any of the BBNA staff. That's what it's supposed to be, it's supposed to tap into that kind of almost enforced downtime because you're coming to CPD, but it can be, you know, something to, to just revive you a little bit and go actually, you know, some of these key speakers have had amazing careers or they've carved out this particular niche and then. The CPD wraps around that to reflect that, and then there's completely random things like belly dancing that you can come and get involved with, you know, there's all sorts in there, there's something for everybody, that's for sure.

You know, it, it, it is, it's, I mean in terms of, you know, when you look at any programme for a a congress or a CBDP event, it's safe to say that it's a diverse lineup. And you know, diversity in, in many, in many sorts of lines of conversation is, is very. At this moment in time, and correctly so, but there's obviously, you know, when we all look at any, any programme within any congress, there's things that jump off the page to us.

And I just wondered if you could just give people a couple of examples of things out of the, the event agenda that that jump out to you other than the belly dancing. Other than the belly dancing, yeah, which, you know, I'm very sad that my back will not let me play with that, but I think for the, for the luck of the nation really. For me, the highlights are the, the key speakers and our and our guests.

So we've got Katie Ford, who is our main keynote speaker, she was gonna be my Congress speaker of choice because mental health. Is so important and it's something we've been speaking about in the veterinary field for a few years now, which is brilliant, it's really becoming the norm to have these discussions. However, my personal feeling is we need more practical tools, and that's something that I wanted to bring in in my year as as BA president was more practical hands-on stuff.

So not just the nod to understanding mental health more, but, but something where people get more involved and sadly that's been shelved. I'm gonna have to look at that for my senior advice year because I've been slightly busy doing other things in my, in my presidential year. So Katie Ford's talk, I think, is one that is absolutely not to be missed, and, and she's highlighting the fact that yes I'm a vet nurse, but I'm also human.

There are errors, there are flaws. You've got the whole self-doubt, especially at the moment when, if you are exhausted. And she's giving these practical tips of how to improve your self-worth and how to get over those negative feelings.

So I think that's one that I really, really would urge everybody to, to kind of tune into. Other speakers we. We've got Hayley Walters, who obviously has an MBE is a veterinary nurse who, who's done all sorts around the globe.

She has an amazing career path, so that's one that I think will be fascinating for any nurse, certainly student nurses, to have a look at and see actually just how much your, your career can change going through things. And then we've got people like Helen Ballantyne, who's talking about One Health and, and, you know, she's huge, and that's, that sphere. And people like Matt Rendall.

Who has diversified into a very, very niche of being a zoo veterinary nurse for, for many, many years and also being on, on Vets council and being the chair of that. Another kind of famous speaker we've got is Claire Lomas, another MBE so she's coming along to have a chat to us with regards to her real life story of change and how to overcome change after her, you know, quite horrific horse riding accident, and and how that changed her life. And of course, I can't go without saying how absolutely thrilled I am to have Jane Goodall as our key speaker for our awards evening, and that is just kind of, even just for me on a personal level, to be able to have a chat with her is amazing.

So I think for me the speakers really nail it for for the presentations. And I think, you know, good, good speakers and a good lineup always make a great agenda to engage people with an event, but as is always the case, sort of. People's engagement with the events is what really creates an atmosphere about it.

Now of course with digital and online events, it's difficult to emulate the atmosphere that you get physically in a room and you know, I mean we've all been in in talks, I dare say, over the years. You know, I, I, I can think of 4 or 5 off the top of my head where I've come out of them. You know, either with goosebumps or sitting there feeling like I've been hit by a train.

But the, the community element of that is, is of course hard to, to, to replicate digitally, but you guys have put a lot of thought into sort of the, the, the social element of, of, of the congress and looking at very much how people can share in the experience, which is, is something that. Not many, not many people have been brave enough to delve into just as yet as we're sort of 6 months into, so you're very much putting your heads up there as, you know, the guinea pigs for this kind of event, which is fantastic. And again, it shows, you know, great and inspirational leadership by an organisation.

But what, what sort of, what's the rationale and your hopes for that sort of approach? What do you want people to do with the event in order to make that a success? Firstly, I hope I can pull it off.

But we do, we do like to aim high at the BBNA. And if we say we're gonna do something, then we will go all out to try and make it happen the best way we can. And again, you know, like you say, we're trying to make it different.

So we've really focused on these interactive sessions. So we've got campfires, online campfires. We're not setting fire to anything, luckily.

But seminars, workshops and and we've deliberately done these interactive sessions so that you've got an expert in front of you, but it's a two way process. You can actually have a chat to them as well as learn something. So not just a Q and A at the end.

Of a presentation, but you can actually go through these workshops and round table talks to to really kind of delve into the subjects. Now it's very difficult online, however, most of us have, have had at least 1 or 2 million Zoom meetings of the platform. During the last 6 months, so I think we're kind of, we've got the hang of, of how to interact digitally in a meeting, and we're hoping that this is gonna come across in our workshops as well, in that people can, can go through them.

And the topics are, are just, well, I think they're brilliant, obviously, because, you know. We wouldn't have to put them up there otherwise. But again, there's something for everything.

We've got some resilient stuff going on, pain scoring and monitoring, which is so important. Dental charting, which is something that, that's of interest to me because I think it, it, you know, in a previous life I was a human human dental nurse for a little while. And I think dentistry is somewhere where nurses really can kind of own that space moving forward.

And of course we've got our, our dental pathway through through BNA as well. Nursing management of rabbits, as if we'd get through a whole chat without me mentioning rabbits. And, and equine surgical cases in there as well.

So there's a little bit for everybody. And also looking at the, the management and leadership, because the other thing I was very keen on, on for, for my year is looking at again, those practical tools to enable nurses to do more with their careers and, and see where they want their career paths to go. So we, we've got quite a, you've noticed quite a lot of management and leadership type things coming through there.

But hopefully these interactive sessions will give will give people the chance to, to, you know, do something slightly different. And with the, the Vet nurse Futures breakout rooms as well, which I'm very excited about, because as you say, engagement is key and we try and do what we think the industry wants, but we do need people to talk to us and they're very, very quiet. So we want people to find their voices and and reach out, whether it be a a tweet or a Facebook post or an email or just pick up the phone and ring us.

It doesn't matter. Just let us know what you're thinking, what you're feeling, you know, thoughts on the industry in general, at any time. We are always open and always there for members and non-members to, to kind of give us their thoughts and engagement because that's the only way we can make things better.

And the BM Futures is gonna be really good to have those roundtable sessions and breakout sessions where there's specific things to chat about with regards to BM Futures because we've come to the end of that 1st 5 years, and a nice little recap on that and what we're gonna do going forward. And yeah, I mean it, it's, it's scary to think that things like VN Futures and that are, you know, 5 years down the line, which is sort of, you know, you blink your eyes and and life passes you by nowadays, but it's, it's interesting to look at, you know. Elements that have been brought into not just the the vet field, but also into the vet nurse field, and, and people are really identifying the need to engage from the ground up with, with members of a profession, because ultimately, you know, it is the people, you know, at the coalface as it were, who are, you know, getting insight into, you know, what works, what doesn't work, what are challenges, what are things that can be improved, and that's obviously something that the BBNA as an organisation, as you say, are massively keen for people to.

To engage with. And like I said, there's been this degree of maybe not reticence, but perhaps even a lack of knowledge of how to engage with things, so it would be great to see, you know, this very much empowering of of the vets from the ground up. I just wonder, sort of, you know, looking at that, that five year evolution of VM futures and looking to it moving forwards, what are the, the elements of that that sort of, you know, you're most proud of to date and that you think, you know, are are really encouraging moving forwards.

Well, we've had some really big changes off the back of it, and if you just look at the post graduation registration qualification, which has got lots of sugar. And I may have even got that in the wrong order. But if, if we just look at that, that was born out of Vet BM Futures, sorry.

And BM Futures now has its own website as well, so it's not just hanging off the back of the Vet Futures, it has its standalone website. The the LWP reports that the legislation working parties are looking at Schedule 3, looking at enhancing that, nurse practitioner roles, all of this stuff has come out of BN Futures. And and it and it's such, such a, a great project, it just kind of bubbles along in the background and it may not be hugely obvious of the changes that are coming forward.

So again, that's something we're working on in collaboration obviously with the RCBS cos it's a, it's a joint collaboration. About telling people more about what we do and the amazing things that have happened and, and this is kind of a springboard for it. Congress was going to be a a a big shout out event for it.

And so we didn't want to lose that from our celebration about what's going on and it's just taking the profession, the veterinary nursing profession more seriously and, and really looking, but as you say, engagement is key and. Sadly, I understand why because I'm, I'm not in practise now, but I've been a nursing practise for many years and it's very easy to slip into. That mindset of, well, what's the point in trying to make a change because no one listens, change can't be made, it's like it's got to be this huge legislation change or this huge industry mind shift and actually every little step helps, you know, if you, if you're trying to clean up your village and you walk past that one crisp packet and you pick it up and put it in the bin.

And if everybody did that, your, your village is clean. And I think that's the same with, with the profession. If people just keep engaging, respond to surveys, I know they're not the most fun thing in the world.

But, you know, just, just kind of tell us what you're thinking. Don't hold back. Just the more we can get, the more we can push forward because luckily council, BNA council is very diverse and the VNF board, the VNF groups are very diverse as well.

So we've got quite a good feeling as to what goes on out there, but, but we're always happy to hear more. And I think that's it, isn't it, is that, you know, people have to be willing to, to voice their concerns and you know, you only have to look at the, the empowering of the vet nurse in practise and you know, I look at this with my vet hat on and go, there are so many things that now I can say. To the vet nurse teams and the practise that I'm working at, actually, can you guys crack on and do that, can you guys crack on and do that?

Not just from a, a stress level point of view as a vet, but as a, as a confidence builder for my vet nurses, as a, as, as an empowering mechanism, because actually, God, I, I, I don't think where, where my professional degree would have gone had it not been for the vet nursing teams, sort of putting their hand on me from now. And then just go now, now Ben, are you sure you want to do that, or, or do we maybe want to do this, which is code for, if you pick up that scalpel, I'm going to shove it through your hand because you're doing the wrong thing. And, and you know, we all need that degree of support and, and, you know, I don't think there's a vet out there who would say that vet nurses haven't helped them, and it's great to see the veterinary profession and the veterinary nursing profession working alongside it, but also having their own very defined.

Paths now, and you know that that's increasing, especially with the, you know, the, the reviews of Schedule 3 and so on and so forth for vet nurses. And of course that will have an impact on the educational agendas for, you know, for vet nurses at congresses and and actually you look at some of the educational content, you know, it's been great to, to wax lyrical about the, you know, the social agenda and so on and so forth, which I'm, I'm gonna throw my, my my two pence into this particular argument and say, I dare say several. Only ever go to a congress for is for the social agenda and and maybe sort of crawl into a a lecture at 9 a.m.

And just I'll take the back row, thanks, and just lie here. But of course there are those of us who do very much, you know, get a lot out of the educational agenda. So what, what changes have you seen with that sort of educational content this year compared to to previous years in terms of what BVNA have got to offer this time round?

Yeah, absolutely, I, I agree, and I think we've been brave enough to stand up and er and say exactly what you said about we go for the social and we stay for the CPD, and we've just been brave enough to go. Yeah, we'll accept that. We'll, we'll go with that and, and see, see where we go.

So, so as I mentioned earlier, it is about trying to not pick apart the nurse's role, but, but really delve into niche things. Obviously you've got your anaesthesia, which is probably, I would say the biggest thing that most nurses in practise are responsible for. And enjoy and, and want to to do to the best of their ability.

So there will always, always be anaesthesia on our agenda. That, that's just so important. But for me, it's digging that bit deeper, so it's looking into species-specific anaesthesia.

You know, so for example, rabbits, as you might know, I do quite like. They, they need some quite different tweaks. And then if we go even further into the exotics world, you know, and, and you're looking at reptiles and, and these bits and pieces, then again, these are things we're seeing far more commonly in practise.

We're not just stuck with, with the hamster that, you know, how do you pick a hamster up or you put your finger in, it latches on and you lift it out of the cage. I kind of moved beyond these things, looking at fear-free and stress-free, bits and pieces. And also looking at, at more edgy things, you know?

So, the links between animal abuse and domestic violence. So as much as we're not police within the veterinary. Sphere we want to be able to be thinking about these, these things, what animals need licences?

Should we be seeing these animals? Should these owners, do they have the right paperwork? Has the dog got popped ears?

Where was that done? So we're trying to pick through these kind of niggly things on the edge, as well as providing the standard. High level CPD on kind of the basics and and keep reiterating the, the basics that we all need, really.

OK, so what we're gonna do now is I'm gonna throw some quickfire questions at you, just to, one, keep you on your toes, and, and two, just so people know exactly what's going on with with BVNA This is Us this year. So, what dates is the event? It's To the 11th of October.

Just for those that didn't hear that, cause the line cut out in keeping with modern technology, that was the 9th to the 11th of October. 2020, just so we're all clear if you're listening to this from the future. Yes, it's definitely in 2020, the last year, that that is.

How much is it? It's free for BVNA members, so the best thing to do is join up and you get your free ticket. Alternatively, if you're not a member, you can still join up and get a free ticket, but it's 56 pounds to to attend and that's gonna be for the whole weekend including the quiz night and the awards and everything.

If you're not a member and you want to join up and go for free, how much does membership cost? Membership is 56 as well. You can see some excellent marketing strategy there and.

OK. Now BVNA this is us. British Veterinary Nursing Association, this is us.

Is this event just for vet nurses? Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

I, I've spent my life championing vet nurses and, and allowing them to getting them into the sphere for everybody else, but also being inclusive, and this is an inclusive event. The BVNA is not exclusive. We never have been, we never want to.

So if you're a receptionist, a VCA, an ANA, a, a vet, a student, it doesn't matter if you work in the sphere, come and join us. And you can be a member of the BVNA as well, even if you're not a veterinary nurse because we have an associate membership. So everyone can come and join and everyone can come and play in our pool.

What is your favourite memory of your presidential year? You could have given me a heads up on that one. This is where we get true honest answers on this podcast.

Goodness me. You know, it, it's been such a strange year because I've only been to one event in my whole presidential term. I've been to one external event.

I think. I think actually because of that, there's kind of two answers. One is when I very first took over the presidency, so that very first day, that very first moment when I had the chain placed and gave my speech and my incoming speech was, was.

So well received and that really buoyed me up. So any, any kind of feelings of imposter syndrome or complex or whichever kind of term you want to use for that, any, any feelings of not being good enough to do this job, actually kind of. Went away at that point.

I thought actually the, the people, there are people behind me, people resonated with my speech and my aims. So I think that was a real big turning point for me in my own mind, because I thought actually I am good enough to do this, and I can get through this. And so the other point would just be the resilience for me, the resilience of nurses through this pandemic, I think, has been truly amazing and truly humbling.

Whether you've been furloughed or working on the front line, it doesn't matter. You've still have so much to cope with and so much to deal with, and you are still trying your hardest to put your patient and your colleague welfare first. So for me to be.

President of the Association of Nurses and seeing nurses really step up. It, well, it's actually given me goosebumps just to talk about that. So I think I, I've just kind of kept the lights on and kept the fires burning with many, many COVID meetings.

But actually the people out there, the nurses on the front line, and in different parts of the industry have, have really, really shone. And I'm proud of that, every one of them. That's pretty, pretty strong, there's an answer I think there.

Yeah, that's it, yeah, you can't follow that up with a sarcastic remark really, can you? That's it, that's properly from the heart. This is going to come as a shock to many, many people, I am sure.

Favourite animal. Oh. 2, actually.

So rabbits, obviously they're my thing, my species of choice, but I love a flamingo. Obviously. So if anybody has any ideas how to create a rabbit flamingo hybrid, you know, Joe, Joe will literally be your your flag bearer forever.

Hopefully on to least favourite animal. Oh, There is only one actually, and it's an earwig and I absolutely hate them. So yeah, mine is a very specific one, it's an 18 year old hyperthyroid cat.

Oh. Has come to the vets in a taxi, but yeah, with the owner left at home. But yeah, so OK, and final quickfire question, is there anybody that you would like to specifically or generally thank leading up to the event?

Yeah, absolutely. The, the whole team at BBNA have been amazing. So the staff behind the scenes have worked incredibly, incredibly hard.

Katie Spackman has really taken on this event and run with it. She's done lots and lots of, of work behind the scenes, which is amazing. Obviously, all of council, I want to thank as well because.

Is they have put in their ideas. They've put up with my, my random very, very left field ideas and gone, yeah, OK, we can probably make that work. And brought some, some sensibility back to the table.

And, you know, and I'd also, I really would like to thank our Congress volunteers because although they don't get to play this year. We couldn't have our normal congress without them, and I, and I feel like I don't want them to be left out either this year just because they're not actually physically doing something for us, but they're still there, they're still big fans of the BBNA. But yeah, absolutely, it's really been a team effort this event and obviously the webinarve as well for for helping us host and making sure that everything goes to plan.

Awesome. Joe, it's been great to chat. It's gonna be really exciting watching a whole new take on a digital congress.

There's, there's gonna be so much for people to, to get involved with, but perhaps more importantly to take away from this, you know, great networking opportunities, great educational opportunities. And, and, you know, even more important to some, a brilliant. Digital social agenda.

So I know that when you obviously hand over the baton to Joe Oakton coming in, I dare say that there will be a sizable glass of wine waiting for you and and a huge breath, but, but something to look back on and to sign off with with great pride. So thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for all that you're doing at BPNA and for, for giving us this new.

Novel approach to a to a digital event and I'm looking forward to hopefully seeing it catch on in other congresses as well. Alright, thank you. Yeah, we, you know, we really hope it's a success.

It's a dip in dip out programme because we understand people are still really busy. So, and a little bit Zoom fatigue, so we deliberately made it dip in dip out, you can come and see what you want and then you can catch up later on the things that you've missed. Awesome.

Cheers, Joe. Thanks, bye.