Hi there and welcome to Vet Chat, a new podcast for the veterinary profession brought to you by the webinar vet. We're gonna discuss all things from clinical cases to hot topical debates. I'm your host Ben Sweeney, and for the first time in my life over the episodes ahead of us, I'm aiming to listen more than I talk, and I can't wait for you to join me for the adventure.

Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Vet Chat. Today I am delighted to be joined by Dan Main. Those of you who have heard Dan speak before know that he's really engaging, he's a top bloke and moderately biassed because I have him on a decent pedestal.

He's currently the president of the BV LGBT, which is definitely staking a claim to be the association with the longest acronym in the veterinary profession, I reckon. He's a JDP he's got his own practise as a small. Side hustle because being a vet isn't busy enough or stressful enough.

Dan actually manages to get his downtime being special constable for Dorset Police. All I can basically picture is just hot fuzz. I'm intrigued.

Special Constable, what was the thinking behind that? I've always been interested in the police and my dad was in the police and got chatting to some friends and they said it was a route into doing it and yeah, it does sound strange that it is a good way of de-stressing from vet life, but it, it. Really is, and I also find it helps with my ability to deal with difficult situations and, and dealing with members of the public.

I also appreciate where some of the problems that I have with clients and seeing them in their more home environment can gives you a bit more understanding as to why they may be presenting the way that they are. So yeah, I love it. I I wish I could do more of it and, and fit it in, but it's very rewarding.

What, what kind of time commitment does that sort of stuff take? It's 16 hours a month and you can do more than that, and if they certainly don't give you a hard time. You don't manage to do it, but yeah, you get to do all sorts.

You can go to football matches or you can just, as I do, stay on a fixed squad and and work in the response. And we did a shift last night, so there's a few blue light calls around and about the not so sleepy Dorset towns, but, but yeah, it's great. I love it.

Do you get to press the button that sets the siren off? No, I can drive the cars, but unfortunately I can't blue lights with the sirens on. I can put them on to stop someone, but I certainly can't chase them if they er make off from me.

Oh mate, so obviously, Dan, like, you know, many of you will know you from your involvement with the BVA over the years, and I dare say that you've probably been on pretty much every council and organisation that they've got there. Obviously your, your current president of the BV LGBT. Why is that as an organisation so important to you?

It's important because it, it's so new and it's just seeing the interest, that it's provoking within the profession, only been in existence for 4 years and there's been nothing prior to that. To support the LGBT veterinary community and being involved with this over the last few years and hearing people's stories and the situations that they faced or are facing just makes it so important that we're there to support those individuals, but also we're there for practises to reach out to us for help and guidance with the situation. So we're there as a resource and and it's just very humbling to find the increasing number of practises and individuals that are contacting us for.

Help and support for the situations that they're in rather than kind of just plodding through something and maybe not doing it right or doing it a bit clumsily, it's just encouraging to see that, you know, the majority of the profession are kind of waking up to the fact that there is an LGBT community and there are certain situations where those members may need to be dealt with in slightly different ways or have different needs. So it's just incredibly rewarding. It's really encouraging to see that people have been coming to you and obviously you know you are as you've.

On a very new organisation. Do getting an organisation like this off the ground create problems and challenges for you? It, it is very difficult because we're small and we're all volunteers and we all have jobs, so trying to kind of must get to all of our events organised as well as growing and improving the sort of resources that we have available.

It is, it is difficult and we've got so many ideas and we can see where our potential end. Point is, but it's kind of breaking it all down into small manageable little chunks and over the last couple of years in particular, we've been invited to have representation on all committees with BVA and the Royal College and large corporates, they're contacting us. So it's a case of trying to focus on all of our kind of yearly calendar events just to get everyone together to continue that awareness, but in the background, hatch that kind of more long-term plan as to, you know, what we're actually aiming to do.

And achieving it, we also have a lot of involvement with the students and the vet schools, so ensuring that kind of we're doing everything to support them, but also not losing focus on actual graduated members that are out in practise and making sure that we are able to offer them the support that they need. Yeah, and obviously you touched on the fact that, you know, there is a long term plan and an end point with the organisation. What frankly, what is it?

What are you guys hoping to achieve? I think. We, the, the main focus is to be that kind of one stop place for people to come to, whether it's individuals that need the support and advice, and, you know, ideally we could have something similar to vet life, where we actually have an advisory kind of counselling arm to ourselves, making sure that our name is fully out there amongst the entire veterinary profession.

We've got a huge, following from the small animal side, but my ideal would be that that's equally matched with. Manual and equine so that we're able to sort of support those groups in the profession and just basically have everything up and running so that our website is, you know, crystal clear with all the kind of how-to guides and information that people need, information that people don't have at the moment, such as, you know, knowing about people's pronouns, what kind of things need to be done to support, you know, a, a transgender member of staff, all, all of those kind of things. So just having it all in one place.

That, yeah, and I think that that sort of having, if you look at so many other avenues in life now, and that sort of one stop shop is almost becoming the norm for so many aspects of our life, that, you know, having that centralised resource pot for something for, for a group of people to come to is is absolutely paramount. As an organisation, how do you feel that the veterinary community have have embraced you? Have, have they been supportive?

Have they been sort of challenging or. We not come up against any opposition. Everyone that we're involved with is incredibly supportive.

We've got some fantastic sponsors that help with the events that we put on each year, and those sponsors vary from corporate practises to pharmaceutical companies. Independent practises as well, offer sponsorship and support. It's just a case of trying to do as much as we can within the kind of veterinary media to ensure as best we can that everyone in the entire profession is aware of us.

Like I said, they're sticking. Point I have at the moment is is the equine and farm animal side of things. I'd love much more interaction from from them.

We've got sort of a couple of barriers as part of our membership as well as some equine vets, but equally across the whole profession, people that are interacting with us, the practises that are interacting with us, but thankfully, we've not had anything negative, which is wonderful. That's brilliant. And obviously you touched on on equine stuff and on and on farm stuff.

Do you find that this sort of potentially this stigma still attached to, you know, large and an equine practise where there is a certain sort of personality that you need to fulfil as a role, is it potentially harder to address these, these issues in, in, in that environment than it is in a small animal environment? Yeah, I, I'm not in my opinion, and I'm not quite sure kind of why or how you change that, but I think, you know, when you look at the, the farm vet side of things, you know, the same issues I've I've found in the farming community, that's not necessarily the open inclusive. Environment that, that it is with this sort of general population of small animal owners.

So I think there probably is that kind of apprehension, you know, if you're working in large animal practise and you don't necessarily want to be your true self in front of a farmer just in case, you know, it's taken the wrong way. So I think it's a case of trying to break those barriers down, and it, it's gonna be a two-way thing, you know, from the veterinary profession side of it, but also from people that are working in the equine industry and working in the farming industry. When I first came.

I, I was working as a horse vet, and that was incredibly challenging with within the the horse community or the equine community. So definitely a work in progress and we, we're starting to get some really good contacts with vets working in the, the large animal side, and they're exceptionally keen, they're aware of the problem, but they're also very keen to be involved in the work that we're doing and having kind of a an open discussion is the best way to improve that. Integration.

And the issues for so many people is that, that, that moment in life where they do make that decision to, you know, sort of come out or or be be honest about who they feel that they actually are and feel comfortable enough to be able to do that. What pieces of advice, you know, potentially even from your own personal experience, what piece of advice can you give to people who are potentially struggling with things like sexuality and identity and, you know, to address within themselves and, and, and how can we support them in in order to, to, to help. I think it's.

It's kind of two areas. One is trying to think to yourself that this is all normal, OK, and there's nothing wrong with having those thoughts or feelings or being confused about anything, and, and then not keeping it to yourself, you know, that was the issue that I had. I bottled it all up for a long, long time, and that was incredibly destructive.

And finally, you know, my employer at the time was brave enough to talk to me about it, and it was just that. Moment of discussion, he didn't know where to send me or where to point me as far as further specific, but just that act of listening to me, making me realise that the world didn't fall apart when someone found out and that just gave me the confidence to carry on and and talk to more people. So I think it's a case of, Coming to terms with yourself and not kind of beating yourself up about it, but also finding that one person that you're comfortable to talk to, whether it's a colleague or a friend or a family member, and I'm confident that that just that first discussion will be the start of everything to become more open and.

Feeling safer to talk to others about it. So it is just finding that one person, and making sure that you do talk about it. And if that, if that's not something that's accessible, there are so many different charities, you know, that life, they're amazing, you know, and I know there volunteers are all geared up to.

You know, to support members of the profession with these kind of problems, they have sought lots of advice from us and we've presented to the training day of the the vet life volunteers and we've given them some crib sheets as well to help support individuals that may be phoning them just so that they at least have some. Knowledge and, and background and know kind of some of the things that individuals might be suffering from, but talking about it, that, that is the main thing, not bottling it up. Absolutely, and I think in something that was really interesting about what you said earlier was about the fact that it was actually, you know, one of your bosses who, who turned around to you at one stage and said, you know, look, do we need to chat?

And that I actually find that really encouraging to think that, you know, there are bosses and employers out there who are keen to engage with their staff. What, what can practises do, you know, I, I dare say that there are, you know. Hundreds if not thousands of bosses who want their staff to be happy.

They want them to enjoy work and part of that is being able to, to enjoy who you are at work and be able to embrace that that fullness of your own personality. But what can practises do to be more inclusive? I think it's just in general, you know, the, the, the big buzzword at the moment is culture.

So I think it's in everyone's interest to have a, a practise where the the culture in general is one that's open and trusting and safe and welcoming and. We ensure that as an employer you're, you know, integrating with your team, you get to know them and you're interested in them, so that MPs will feel kind of, that they are looked after and and welcome and hopefully that is an environment that not just, you know, allows an LGBT person to be able to, you know, be open and and be for ourselves at work, but you know, that just spins off to all sorts of issues that you may encounter in work, you know, being in an open environment. Gonna be much more questioning and honest and, you know, being able to sort of provide feedback because you know that it's gonna be taken in the way that it's meant and there's not gonna be issues.

But also simple things that can portray the practise as being, you know, open and welcoming of LGBT members such as changing your Facebook page during Pride Month or, you know, dressing up the practise with, you know, rainbow flags when it's, you know, London Pride. You don't have to have LGBT team members to be kind of. Doing those kind of things and, you know, by portraying that image as a, as a practise that, you know, welcomes everybody and is inclusive, that's just going to spread like word of mouth.

So, you know, that vets that you're desperately looking to recruit who happens to see that, and they may be LGBT knows that that's gonna be, you know, a cool place to go, that's safe and they can be themselves. So you don't have to have those LGBT members, the team, just to, you know, to be able to celebrate, all the various events that go. In the LGBT calendar.

Yeah, and the LGBT I can't say calendar. Calendar is a real, sort of almost part of the, I dare say, social calendar within the veterinary sphere now, and you guys are obviously very heavily involved in Pride London. What is Pride Week, you know, what is Pride Month?

What, what are pride events all about? So it's a, it's a celebration, it's a fun thing. It's a celebratory thing, it's celebrating, you know, the LGBT community.

It's also a period of remembrance. Remembering the path that's been followed for people to be at that point, being able to, you know, march and be themselves and and be proud to be, you know, LGBT. So there's, you know, various celebrations that go on throughout the year, throughout the country, and over a period of time in London that just kind of remembers where we've come from, where we are now, but also raising awareness that we're in a lucky country, we are in a very tolerant environment and tolerant.

But there are, you know, way too many, other countries where it's illegal death penalty in certain places, so it's remembering that the work still goes on and, you know, having a country, you know, being proud and showing awareness, hopefully is there to kind of philtre around the rest of the world to you know, to catch up really. And and in terms of sort of, you know, getting involved, because obviously, you know, you often see, I mean certainly, you know, when I've seen sort of pride things down in Brighton and in London. You you've seen so many of the faces that I know within the veterinary profession all down there, and if it looked like you're absolutely having a ball, certainly, I mean I've I've certainly heard mention of a few hangovers that he's as well.

But as, as a community, what does that do for you guys? It's amazing to see each year that we, well, it's not amazing, but you know, that we have to turn more people down, we get a very limited number of wristbands for people to actually come and and march with us. So the fact that each year we are sadly having to turn people.

Away in one hand, is a, is a good thing because it shows that each year is becoming more popular and more people that want to come and join us. And the fact that there are, you know, veterinary businesses that, you know, want to be involved, want to support us, BVA are phenomenally supportive of us, you know, they, they provide the t-shirts that we march in. They give us the, the BVA headquarters for the morning to everyone, for everyone to meet up.

So it's a great kind of social gathering, it's a great networking event, to meet new people. But it's also really good for the students as well. We try to offer as many travel bursaries for the vet students and nursing students so that they can come along and join, you know, other members of the profession because they're, they're our legacy, you know, they're, they're the next generation and we want to be making sure that they know that they're coming into a profession that is, you know, welcoming and open and is working hard to improve that.

So, yeah, it's, it's a really, really good event, but it's just frustrating to have limited. On the number of people that can actually march with us because, you know, already I have people asking when is it happening, when can I get a wristband, so the aim at one point will be to get afloat and have a, you know, a B the LGBT veterinary float going along. So that's, yeah, that's something in the next couple of years that we're looking to do.

So hopefully we'll be able to have a bit more of an allocation to get, you know, over 100 people marching with us. And, and in terms of, obviously, you know, you, you talk about the fact that having intentionally to, to say to people look you know actually you can't march with us. As, as an organisation that's growing, and as an organisation that, you know, is very much becoming a key part of of the veterinary world in the UK especially, does that present challenges for you, does that present sort of almost a new barrier?

It is a barrier and we do get larger numbers of people that come to the kind of pre-March event at BBA headquarters, and there's always more of us there. We do aim to march as another pride around the country, so. That we can, you know, at least increase access to marching and being part of the group and, and, and marching with pride.

The other venues don't tend to be as restricted, with numbers, so we're currently going through a process to decide how we'll be going to pick which venues to march in each year, and at the moment we're considering having, almost a very similar circuit to AVS weekends and trying to kind of purposefully pick that secondary city to be one where the. The vet school present or very nearby, so that we're really maximising student attendance, but also, you know, other people in the profession that are in those areas, and if we've got no restrictions on numbers that they can still come to us, it's just frustrating that London is so tightly regulated and each year we, you know, it's it's a bit of a lottery. Each year we ask for more wristbands and we try and get as many people at least coming to spend some part of the day with us, even if it is just a smaller number that can actually march with us.

But it's great that, you know, almost. Testament to life as veterinary professionals where challenges are presented, you are at least looking and trying to find solutions to those problems. Yeah.

Definitely a positive, so, you know, if if people are wanting to get involved or are wanting to support you, whether that's in, you know, sponsorship or maybe even someone's got a float line around in the barn that they maybe want to donate to you at some stage. I'm sure one of the farm vets has got something that can be turned into something useful. How, how can they, how can they help and how can they get involved, Dan?

Well, they we've got. Couple of Facebook pages, one that's kind of members only, so you just answer a few questions and you can kind of get access to that. So we've also got a public Facebook page, so all of our events and what we're up to is on, on those pages.

We desperately always need sponsorship, and I say we're just a small group of volunteers and we have no external funding. So in order for us to kind of put these events on, I've recently been round to several vet schools and talked to the vet students there, so that's, you know, comes out. The amount of funds that we have which are I say gained through sponsorship, but we've got our website, so there are contact points through the website as well, but I just encourage anyone that wants to be, become involved just to ping us a message on Facebook or, or join the group and certainly if people do want to come along and and march with us in London prior, it's the 27th of June, and as soon as we've got our allocation, we'll be putting it as an event on our Facebook page and I definitely, definitely encourage people if you want to come get your name down straight away.

Because it's horrible having to turn people away last minute. I'm, I'm sure that all of those that maybe don't manage to make it onto the er the march with you will be able to organise some kind of adjacent pub crawl to support you along the fingers crossed anyway. So Dan, thanks so much for joining me.

It's been great. Hopefully people can get a bit more insight through the podcast as to what's going on with BV LGBT. Thanks for, thanks for doing a lot of positive stuff, mate, and I think, you know, long may it continue.

Brilliant, thank you very much, Ben. Cheers mate, cheers. Thanks for joining us for today's episode of Vet Chat.

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