Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Vet Chat. Today, as part of our World Menopause Day celebrations, I'm delighted to be joined again this year by Claire Louise. The theme for our series this year is around breaking taboos and sharing stories, and today I'm really looking forward to hearing from Claire.
So before we get started, let me introduce our guests. Clare is a business psychologist specialising in women's health at work. Her own experience of living and working with premenstrual dysphonic disorder inspired her to set up her company, see her Brad.
Spent 2 years as a board director at the International Association of Premenstrual Disorders. She's an affiliate member of the British Menopause Society, the Association for Business Psychology, the British Psychological Society, and the CIPD. She's also a lay examiner with the Royal College Obstetricians and gynaecologists.
Claire was selected for the government task force to address menstrual stigma and education in the UK. She also lectures on women's mental health at King's College London and is a PhD researcher working in collaboration with the NHS and the Ministry of defence. So welcome, Claire.
It's great to have you back. Thank you for having me, it's lovely to be here. Brilliant.
So should we get started, if you don't mind telling us why you love celebrating World Menopause Day? Yeah, so I think it's wild, isn't it, to think that not so long ago we, we wouldn't talk about menopause. It was a very whispered conversation and shrouded in stigma and taboo.
So I think the fact that we now have World Menopause Day, it just, it really shows how far we've come. That being said, there's still a long, long way to go as, as we know, but it's just. Such a good opportunity to raise awareness of the menopause and what people can go through and experience.
It's a great chance to educate everyone and to learn together. This year's theme is the heart, so I think that's really interesting to learn about the the link between menopause and and cardiovascular health. And it's just a great chance to talk about something that perhaps ordinarily in a work setting, especially, we wouldn't talk about it just gives us that.
That kind of excuse or that reason to have a conversation about it. Yeah, brilliant, absolutely. And we're doing this year, the webinar that are doing a five-part series, which has been brilliant.
So we're gonna hear lots of stuff around like people in the veterinary field, but it's great to have you here to talk a lot more about the actual menopause, you know, what it is and that sort of thing. So do you mind sort of telling us what the menopause is and when it tends to start and things like that? Yeah, so menopause 101, here it goes.
Menopause, the menopause itself is actually 365 days since our last menstrual period. So it marks the end of our reproductive years, if you like, and it's when we no longer have periods or we stop having, you know, a menstrual cycle. And so that is when you reach that point, when it's 12 months since you've, you've had a period, if you're not on.
Any kind of hormonal birth control, you are then post menopausal, and you will be living as a post menopausal person. But what's really interesting is that we now know that the period of time leading up to menopause, perimenopause, which I'm sure a lot of people have heard of that term, are familiar with it. Perimenopause is the period of time where our hormone levels start to decline, and while they're doing that, they're also fluctuating.
And so when that starts to happen, and that can happen decades before we reach menopause, that's when we can start to experience all of the, the weird and wonderful symptoms that. Associated with the menopause, and you asked about when, you know, the, the typical age for reaching menopause in the UK it's 51. That's the average age for reaching menopause, both.
As I've said, perimenopause can start decades before and actually our hormone levels start to fluctuate and decline from our mid-thirties, usually. So it's very common for people who start experiencing symptoms in their in their 40s, and so one thing we're really passionate about is dispelling this myth that menopause is this midlife thing, because actually we can start to to feel symptoms a lot earlier than that. And for some people, for some of us, we, we might go through menopause a lot earlier, so we might experience early menopause before the age of 40, and there are other journeys to menopause, so people might have surgery for various different health conditions or reasons.
And that will put them into surgical menopause. So if you have an oophorectomy, you'll then be in menopause, the same is, you know, people might be in chemical menopause where we shut down the ovulatory cycle and then someone will be in what's called chemical menopause and then things like cancer treatment can bring on menopause early, so. And we haven't mentioned premature ovarian insufficiency, which is, is something else that means people might experience menopause at a very, very young age.
So one thing to keep in mind, I think when we're thinking about menopause is that there are lots of different journeys through menopause or to menopause, and it you while for a lot of us, the average age is 51. It isn't exclusively for, you know, women in their 50s, 60s, it affects people from a much younger age. Brilliant.
So there's definitely not one sheet fits all. Exactly, it's a very individual thing and you know, my, my experience might be very different to my friend's experience. We know that about 25% of people will experience severe menopause symptoms and at the other end of the scale, about 25% of people will have.
No symptoms or very mild symptoms and kind of breeze through so remembering that diversity and and kind of the different experiences we can have and again that's really important and some people might have physical symptoms, but others it's the, it's the mental health impact of of those hormonal fluctuations. Absolutely brilliant. So you touched upon some common symptoms.
Would you share from like your work and your research and things what people tend to. Struggle with, with the menopause, what symptoms. Yeah, so it, it spans, goodness me, there are so many symptoms and As I've mentioned, physical symptoms, so things like hot flashes, night sweats, bone, joint pain, muscle aches, fatigue, brain fog, that kind of thing, there are psychological symptoms.
So people, a lot of the time will talk about, you know, feeling depressed or experiencing anxiety, having panic attacks, and just feeling generally. Low and disinterested and you know, not enjoying things as much as as they were and then there are cognitive symptoms so I I said brain fog and that's actually more of a cognitive symptom, so. Difficulty concentrating, difficulty remembering things, being able to make decisions, being able to communicate and articulate things as as well as as usual, so symptoms are really wide ranging and what we find in terms of work and the impact that symptoms can have at work.
It's often the psychological and the cognitive symptoms, so it's. You know, lack of of interest or motivation, you know, going from absolutely loving what you do to all of a sudden just really struggling with that and and feeling low, loss of confidence because all of these things can really, really affect your confidence, your sense of self, self identity, . And can really have an impact from that kind of perspective and the the kind of cognitive impairment that can, you know, a lot of people are worried that it's early onset dementia because the cognitive impairment can be, can be so severe.
How do you, do you have any tips on like how you keep your career on track during the menopause because there's so many symptoms there that you just listed, it must be incredibly difficult for, for women. Yeah, it, it can be, it can be particularly, you know, if you're at the, the most severe end and you are debilitated by these symptoms, and I think that it, it's about. And it can be difficult, you know, I'm, I'm saying this, it's easy to talk about it, but it can be difficult, talking about it, but if you can have a conversation with Someone, whether that's someone in HR, whether it's, you know, your line manager, and you don't necessarily have to say that it's because of menopause, but you could say you're having some health challenges, explain what those challenges are in terms of the difficulties you're facing at work, and, and communicate about that, be open about that because.
What can happen is we, you know, we mask symptoms, we just show up and we battle through, we push through and sometimes our performance can start to slip and people might notice that and you might find that you're being pulled into a meeting about your performance or attendance or and we don't want things to get. To that point, it's, it's far better if you can to have a conversation and ask what support is available and think about. For yourself, you know, what are the specific challenges you're facing at work, what parts of the job are are tricky because of symptoms and think through for yourself like what would be helpful, what would be supportive, and then you can go with that and make those suggestions and see what's gonna be possible.
Some really good advice there, thank you. And I guess as well like from an employer's perspective as well, like they play such a critical role, don't they, in supporting. Women, do you have any tips, or any like steps that employers or like practise managers could take in order to sort of create a really inclusive workplace for teams?
Yeah, so there's lots, lots of steps that can be taken. I think a really great place to start is doing something. To start the conversation.
So that might be sharing this podcast and you know, popping out an email and saying, you know, it's World Menopause Day. Let's talk about it or you you might want to run a session for your team where you bring someone like myself in to. Provide that kind of training piece on well what is the menopause, how long does it last, who is affected, da da da da da, but ultimately it's, it's trying to open up that conversation and create opportunities for people to learn about it and also to talk about it if they want to.
Did you know the webinar that Virtual Veterinary Congress is back for 2024. Starting on the 5th of February, we have 10 hours of continuing education with speakers such as Sarah Heath, John Chisy, and Samantha Kyler, and many, many more. We'd love to see you there.
If you'd like to get involved again this year, or if you'd like to join us for the day next time, please click the link in the description below to find out more. Do you have any tips on how you actually start these conversations because it's still such a taboo topic, isn't it? I think as you said earlier, like, it's getting much, much better, but a lot of women, I imagine, would still feel very embarrassed to actually start this conversation.
Yeah, so I think speaking to someone that you feel comfortable talking to, if that isn't your, you know, someone you work with directly, then is there someone else in the team that you can speak to? It might be someone in HR as an example or you know, just some, is there someone you can, you can speak to and feel comfortable speaking to and If you don't have to mention menopause if that doesn't feel right for you, and there are many, many reasons why people might want to not want to disclose that, but if you do want to talk about it, I think acknowledging, you know, when you go into that conversation. This is a really difficult thing to talk about and I, I do, I feel a bit uncomfortable and I know it's a really important conversation so I'm gonna, I'm gonna have it, so bear with me.
Just, you know, often the most crucial conversations we need to have. All the uncomfortable ones and it's thinking about what are you potentially denying yourself in terms of support and understanding if you don't have that conversation. So yeah, accepting that it might feel uncomfortable initially and you can also get through that, you can move through that and together, you know, you can be on that journey together.
I think what's also really helpful is if somebody. Outside of the organisation or team paves the way and that's, it can be very hard to be the one to put your head above the parapet on it it's it's like, no, I don't want to say anything so that's why working with maybe an external training provider or something like that. They feel that that responsibility if you like, and they take that away and so then it paves the way for people to feel more open and more comfortable.
Yeah, absolutely. Nobody, I guess, could be an expert at everything, can they, in the field in veterinary practise. So, yeah, that's really good advice to bring somebody else in to help with that.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and you know, from an employer perspective you're not expected to be a menopause expert or or anything like that. And so if someone does come to you and opens up just. You know, treat it in the same way you would with any other kind of health conversation or personal conversation, show empathy and compassion and it's that thing, isn't it of what can I do to support you, you know, how can we make this more comfortable for you, what, what support would be would be good, .
Yeah, and you don't have to have all the answers and that's fine. Would that be your advice as well for other people in veterinary teams? So if somebody was in the, in the team was going through the menopause, would that be your advice to the team just to kind of listen and be empathetic and just sort of show that you care and you're there if you need anybody to talk to.
Yeah, and I also. Flexibility and by that I mean giving people grace and and Perhaps a bit more leniency because this can be a really, really difficult thing, you know, when you're experiencing things like emotion dysregulation and you're finding it really difficult to control your moods and your emotions, it can make you behave out of character and nobody wants. To behave like that or for that to happen, but it it does happen and so I think for colleagues to understand that this isn't deliberate, it's not something anybody chooses to to do and so making.
Perhaps giving people grace and being as understanding as possible and giving flex as they try and navigate this and yeah, it's that that question of how can we support you, how can we, you know, how can we help you, what do you need right now, . And leaning into it rather than not seeing anything and watching someone struggle or suffer or because that that isn't helpful either. Do you, obviously you work with so many groups, don't you, and so many companies?
Do you have any sort of, success stories or stories that you could share with us about organisations that have done these things, you know, they've addressed the menopause in the workplace and have, have they had any like big impacts as well as a result of all the training? Yeah, well, pretty much every training session or every talk or webinar, we, we deliver, there will be someone who reaches out and will say, you know, thank you so much. I now feel like I can go and talk to my manager or I can, I can talk about this or I know where to go for support.
So the impact, I think is is is huge or it can be huge, and it in terms of success stories, I think it looks different for for each organisation, but the ones that get it right are the ones that have a holistic approach, so they will. Look at things like their policies through the lens of someone experiencing menopause symptoms or they'll, you know, introduce menopause and menstrual health policy, and they'll provide manager training. And they'll do support groups for women or or group coaching for women to connect and talk and support each other and all of that good stuff as well.
So it's having that kind of holistic approach rather than, oh, we're gonna have a menopause talk, tick the box, that's it, don't. And that's when the impact is really far reaching and helps. Not just people who are going through menopause, but Colleagues, allies, partners, everyone.
Brilliant. And kind of looking to the future. I mean, it's been 12 months since we did your perimenopause podcast already, but kind of looking 12 months from now, you know.
2 years from now, what would you like to see what improvements in the workplace, specifically with the menopause? Yeah, I think we need training to be mandatory. I do.
I think it should be part of. All, all kind of manager training, particularly, I think we need to completely overhaul the way we look at sickness absence and the way we manage that at work, because at the minute, the way we tend to do things is we penalise people if they need to take time off for their health, and to me that's. Completely backwards, so looking at potentially better ways to support people that do experience health challenges and difficulties, and I think in 2 years' time, I would hope it's a normal, Part of of workplace conversation and people feel much more able to say, you know, when they're struggling or reaching out for support, and then we won't need to do this stuff.
It will, yeah. There'll be there'll be no need, and I'd love to see the conversation, I think. Probably, you know, organisations, we are in a menopause movement and I think Extending that conversation to look at other female related health issues like endometriosis and PMDD and polycystic ovary syndrome and bringing fertility into the conversation.
That's really, really important. Menopause is, of course it's important and it's one aspect of female health that that has an impact on on people at work. What a lovely thought.
That would be amazing, wouldn't it? If we could fast forward and, and that was, that was the world. So just finally, Claire, just to finish up, if I'm listening now and, you know, feeling quite inspired by, you know, all the advice that you've given, but literally do not know where to start, what would be your advice for people?
Yeah, so we are always happy to help or have a chat at any time, so you're very welcome to reach out to us. Our website is seeerthrive.com.
If you are looking for support with kind of managing menopause symptoms and treatment and things like that, I recommend the Balance app by Doctor Louise Newson. That's fantastic. And there's, you know, lots of information and support there as well, so I think Yeah.
Brilliant. Oh, thank you so much and you're also really active on Instagram, aren't you? Like I follow you all the time on Instagram and you're always sharing really good places to go and facts and things like that.
So I would personally recommend that as well. Yeah, yeah, we're on Instagram, so our kind of business account if you like is see Her thrive Global, and then my personal one is See Her thrive I think as well. So yes.
Brilliant. Just there as well. Lovely.
Oh, well, Claire, thank you so much. If there's anything specifically that you want us to share with our listeners, we'll pop that on our blog. And yeah, thank you for celebrating World Me Day with us this year.
Thank you for shining a light on it. Thank you. See you soon.
Bye, bye.
