Hello, it's Anthony Chadwick from the Webinarett welcoming you to another of our vet chat podcasts. Very fortunate today to have Leo Kuya on the line, who is the CEO and founder of Signal Pets. Signal Pets is a fairly new company that is actually using AI technology to help in interpreting radiographs.
I remember as, as a vet in practise sometimes looking at radiographs and not necessarily getting all the information that I could see, and sometimes that's because of buyers you're looking for one particular thing and you miss the other really obvious thing that's on the plate. And so Leo has created along with with Neil, who we spoke to recently, and Ben, this fabulous tool that will help us to actually look at radiographs in a completely different way, so. First of all, Leo, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Yeah, thank you guys for having me. Leo, we always like to start off with a background, and I think the background story is always so important, isn't it? You know, the signal pet is the, the end of this particular story, but nobody starts right at the beginning with the first company that then is, is their only company.
I know you've been working in AI for a number of years. Obviously academically, but then also creating some really cool companies first. And I'm sure, tell me if I'm right or wrong, that you've probably learned so much from those first two companies that you've been able to bring into Signal Pet.
So perhaps tell us a bit about your story up until now. Absolutely. So the journey journey is, well, first of all, myself, originally born and raised in Israel, ended up in Europe where I did study AI machine learning a long time ago, wasn't as famous as it is now, and eventually became a tech entrepreneur.
The first half of my career I Spent building tools in in advertising and I'm grateful to have had that opportunity because I was, I was working for, for companies who were doing market research and then creatable was a result of that because it was an advertising, truly an advertising platform. Grateful to have been able to do that. Worked on some very interesting problems, but there was one realisation for me personally that I wanted to do something more meaningful that would really help others.
And, and code scan was a result of that, where we, where we shifted, I shifted from, from being able to apply my skills, apply my technical skills and my knowledge. To actually building a tool that were essentially I was the customer, I was the end user as a software engineer and, and doing code analysis and providing developers with with this real-time feedback, helping them programme better, helping them, giving them more confidence and and giving them a tool that helps them, helps them develop better. So I suppose or this really with with code scan was something that was diagnostic in that if they were writing code that wasn't good, you were giving suggestions.
But at the same time, people were then learning rather than you just changing the code and making the code better. They were actually learning so they wouldn't make that mistake again and I think that's the beauty of, I think what we're trying to do at webinar that as well and I think also with Signalack when we talk about that a bit more, that educational piece is, is so important, isn't it? Very, very, and it's super interesting to see, because traditionally, how, how code review was done, it was a peer review and so someone would actually review your code and it created all these issues.
People were uncomfortable with that. It wasn't very effective. And suddenly when you know companies like Codescan came to be and provided used technology and it was actually it was actually really a machine that was providing analysing and providing that people were very comfortable with that.
And today it's a standard. I mean today it's a best practise. There's probably not, not many developers nowadays that are not using a tool like Code scan as a programme that gives them that constant feedback and just helps them do their do their work better.
Of course now we want to talk about signal pattern, and I'm always fascinated with that story of how people come together because not wishing to be disrespectful to all, but if you just created this company on your own. It probably wouldn't have done nearly as well as it is doing. There is a magic in teams, but it's also somehow the law of attraction works to bring the right people together at the right time, doesn't it?
Yeah, you're very right. I, I, I, and I, I completely agree and I think if you take any of us from out of the equation, be it Ben or myself or Neil. I think their chances of it actually being able to accomplish what we have significantly reduces for sure.
And so so the different skills that we, the skill sets we've had and the experience with Neil being, you know, pretty much being from a very young age part of this industry. And having accomplished so much in this industry and then with Ben, who was actually in a previous company that he founded actually built a practise management system and really understands the needs and veterinarians and how to put technology in front of veterinarians. Very knowledgeable on that.
And then you add my my knowledge into that from with the background of AI machine learning and no doubt putting all of that together and together with the fact that we, you know, we just get along really well. We're we're just very good friends as well. We're like family.
And, that's how it came to be. It's definitely, definitely is, yeah, a type of magic, if you will. And it's, it's interesting.
I also think things have to happen at the right time. You know, when I set up webinar about 12 years ago, we were just at the level where the technology, you know, the go to webinars, the zooms were appearing, had that been 10 years previously, you know, to set up your own, recording studio would have meant you had to put a massive amount of investment in, you know, we built this company, you know, in a bootstrapped way. But also I think it it's also when people are ready for the technology and that's obviously I was feeling the pain of trying to educate myself by travelling to do the education.
I wasn't the only person who felt that, so there were enough people who took to webinars fairly early that that happened. We, we can be a bit of a conservative industry, perhaps we're a bit tech hesitant. Do you think perhaps also the pandemic, as terrible as it has been, has perhaps helped people to to force people into digital transformation and therefore made Signal Pep so much more attractive than perhaps it would have been 5 years ago when people were still not very far along that tech journey.
I'm very, very sure of it. I think the pandemic really, really helped. It suddenly became a necessity, hasn't it?
It became a necessity to make things more efficient and and and technology was really suddenly a necessity to make it happen. So it definitely sort of took everyone out of their comfort zone and, oh, I don't want to deal with technology to, oh, we have to do this now. We know we have to do this, but we have to do this now and, and no doubt it has impacted our company as well.
And I, I can't say how would, how it would have been otherwise, but we grew very, very fast during the pandemic. We grew very, very fast compared to any other company that I've previously have had the privilege to be part of. And so no doubt other, other technology companies or vendors no doubt have had the same experience.
So I think there was an acceleration during the pandemic towards that for sure. And maybe just tell us a little bit, why was radiology that first area that you went into rather than perhaps other areas like, you know, blood analysis or whatever. What what was the reasoning behind that?
Yeah, it's a good question. So we, when we looked at talking amongst the three of us and, and, and listening to Neil about using, how can we use technology, asking the question, how can we use the technology to, to help veterinarians? How can we use the technology to, where should we focus on in diagnostics?
And we started looking at the at the hospitals, and I actually spent a lot of time initially at hospitals, and I've noticed the, we all noticed the underutilization of the X-ray machine. It wasn't used much, yet it's this, it takes a whole room at the practise. It's, it's, it's a large piece of equipment.
It's expensive. Yet every hospital has it, but not a lot of not a lot of hospitals are utilising it as often as they should be, and I was wondering why is that. And, and it was pretty straightforward.
It's, it's, it's not trivial. Reading radiographic interpretation is, is not a trivial, not a trivial task, and radiologists spend a lot of time studying it, learning it, and become pretty very good at it. But everyone else other than that who don't, you know, if you look at the veterinarian who juggle many different tasks during the day, adding image, radiographic interpretation into the mix is is a big ask.
And so we thought, hmm, every hospital has this machine. Would it be possible to use technology to to automatically and instantly extract the information. That is available in this in this radiograph in these radiographs and surface it.
And it wouldn't influence also the workflow that much because the radiographs are taken anyway and all we are doing is surfacing now the the information that is that is in with this, this radiographic study. And so the impact on the work flow is very low, and it's sort of simple to introduce it into the workflow of the hospital. In fact, it takes us minutes to set up a hospital and immediately they get, they're comfortable with the new workflow because it doesn't change much.
And And so we actually managed to Have very low impact. It doesn't require you to buy any new machines. It's, it's utilising.
Your existing equipment, and creating more value out of, out of your X-ray machine. And, and so it's very interesting. Now, a few years later, looking at the trends, you can very clearly see that there's an increase, increase in, in the, in, in taking radiographs, whereas before we were seeing much, a much lower number.
You'd expect a certain percentage, and we see that that it's that in in many practises it's trending toward that magic number that for which you'd expect radiographs to be taken. And I think there's a lot of similarities between our two businesses. Obviously, one of our value words is innovative also educates.
In some ways, once you digitalize a product, you democratise it, you make that education and that knowledge much more open to people. We've got vets all over the world that that use our service, but also there's that massive leverage, and I think when I look at vets now, you know, there's a, there's a shortage of vets in the UK. I don't know what the situation is in America.
If we can use tools that save us time. That allows us to see more pets, more animals sort their problems out as well, so. Not only is this an educational tool, it's also a time saving tool as well, isn't it, the, the signal tool that that you've you've set up.
Yeah, 100%. It makes, it makes the workflow way more efficient. You have instant, instant results.
Imagine doing lab work without having a point of care lab equipment. It's, it makes it so much more simple. And, but I want to touch on that, just for a minute.
I actually looked at your website, looked at your vision. And just to quote your website, we dream of a future where vets and nurses around the world are more knowledgeable, skilled, and confident thanks to our work. And I think, I think that's where we are very much aligned.
We, we, this is exactly our vision and so we do the same thing. I think what we, I think the difference is that we do it through tools. So we build tools that are part of the workflow, part of the so-called diagnostic workflow.
And help the the the veterinarians, and it makes them more knowledgeable, more skilled, more confident in accomplishing their job, and it makes it so much more efficient for them. They can really focus on helping the patient. And Leo, I love the tool that you've created.
I, I think there is a worry again, isn't there, you know, I, I'm obviously somebody who, who embraces change, love technology, like to think we've done some innovative things with webinar vets. I think there's a worry sometimes that, you know, this machine that you've created is going to mean that some vets lose their jobs, whereas I think how I've seen it is this helps to augment us as clinicians. So as we have talked about there about wanting more confident vets, I think this is a tool that also does that.
And if we go into the consulting room or into the operating theatre. More confidently We do a better job. We also continue to love that job, and we're much less likely to become dissatisfied by it or want to leave it as well.
Yeah, it's an interesting point. I, I always look at it. There's AI and there's HI, and so there's, yes, there's artificial intelligence and then there's the human intelligence.
And I think the combination is, is the right path forward. Honestly, I'd be very uncomfortable bringing my pet. To a place that tells me, yeah, we just use this robot and it will figure it out and we'll give you your pet back.
I'd feel most comfortable knowing that the veterinarian that I'm, I'm now handing my, my, my child to, is, is using sort of the, the best, the best tools, the most advanced technology to, to do all these tasks, that they, they can do, but they don't have to because the technology can do that for them and then they focus on taking care of my pet. And I think that's, that's the future. The future is that combination of veterinarians utilising, utilising technology, utilising it for radiographic interpretation and other and other areas as well that that help them accomplish much more with, with, with, with less.
I was going to say my practise when I, when I ran it, our strap line was we care for your pet as if it were our own. And as far as I'm aware, I know you're a clever man, Leo, but you haven't taught empathy to computers yet, have you? No, no, yeah, it's funny, you know, I tried to, I was, I was looking at getting, getting a pet for my kids now, looking at these different dogs and And my son says, Well, you know, why don't we get a robot dog instead?
He's very much into technology. He loves fiddling with technology, and I said, I told my son, I said, you know, the, the robot, the robot doesn't feel, it doesn't have empathy. Well I had to explain it to a 6 year old, so it doesn't feel, doesn't really love you.
It doesn't really. And, and that's, yes, there's no empathy there for sure, but it can take a lot of the, of the logical tasks, right? It can do, I mean, machine vision is an area where machines excel.
Machines are very good at that. They can interpret images. They can, they're very good at logic.
I mean, you know, take the best chess player in the world, they can't beat a machine that does the same. They're very good at that, but no, they definitely. I will not take that emotional connection and empathy and understanding and standing in front of a pet parent and explaining to them and connecting with them and connecting with the pet as well.
The machine may take the test, but the machine does not connect with my pet. The veterinarian does, the clinician does, and so does the clinician connect with me as a pet parent. That's not going to be replaced.
I don't, I don't see how. I love that idea of HI and AI working together, you know, as a team. That's really, really powerful, and I suppose, you know, I, I, I'd also sort of comment on this whole idea of every business needs to be a digital business, and, and obviously there's a bell-shaped curve which says the earlier a doctors take to it, and then you have the mass and then the laggards are last and maybe they never go.
Again prior to the pandemic, I was saying to people, look, if you do not become a digital business, you won't be around in 10 years, and of course the pandemic happened and there's some businesses. That don't exist anymore. There's almost a, you know, those people who don't start to take technology seriously as veterinary practises, it is going to be very difficult to compete and to exist, you know, in, in 2 or 3 years' time if we don't start looking at this because in the end, people go to get their pet better.
And if this sort of technology helps us to become better vets because we're using it to augment ourselves. It can only be a good thing and and those who don't adopt it are going to be, are going to struggle, aren't they? I think so, and, and I think more so I think it's the the pet parents that, that will, that are demanding that and, and prefer that.
They're again, they're more comfortable with knowing that, that their pet is in the best hands and I think that in the future every practise in the world will be using technologies such as ours maybe from a different vendor, but all these technologies will be an integral part of the practise, no doubt. I'm very confident that that's what will happen. And it's like you said, there's nothing new.
It's you look, you look historically speaking, that's exactly as you described, this is exactly what happens. But, but at the end of the day it's it's the pet parents will choose. They will pick where they want to go, and I have no doubt they will pick the hospitals that have digitised, that have modernised over those that have not.
And so that's, that's how it, that's how it works for sure. And as, as we say, perhaps, you know, the future of veterinary in artificial intelligence, I think you've summed it up really beautifully there that these will be practises that are well run that have the best clinicians in them because the artificial intelligence, as we've said, is augmenting those clinicians as well, isn't it? Yes, and if you, if you take the artificial intelligence by itself, it cannot, it cannot take ownership of the role.
And if you add, but if you add the artificial intelligence to the human intelligence to the clinician, it just helps you do a better job at the end of the day. It just helps you again. It makes you better at what you do.
It makes you more confident. You can do it quicker, and it's honestly a no brainer why, why you should use these technologies to do your job. And, and, yeah, I think that's, it's inevitable and, and it's desirable.
Hm. Leo, it's always great. I love doing the podcasts and speaking to people who are doing such fabulous things within the profession, the whole idea of futurism and innovation, sometimes futurism is actually already there, we just haven't read that page or we haven't looked in that particular industry.
As vets, we can be a bit conservative, so it's great to see people like yourself and Neil and Ben. Coming together to create such a fabulous tool and I really appreciate that you've taken time today to talk to me. No, thank you.
I appreciate, I appreciate the time and we're really privileged to be able to do this. It's very meaningful. Thanks, Leo.
Take care. Bye bye. Alright, thank you.
