It's Anthony Chadwick from the webinar vets welcoming you to another episode of the UK's top veterinary podcast vet chat. I am super pleased, super honoured to have Gemma Campling on the line today. Gemma is the CEO of Worldwide Vets.

I met Gemma, I think about 6 to 12 months ago at a conference in the UK and was fascinated by her backstory, and I thought this would be a great person to get on, to tell us all the wonderful work that she's. Doing at the moment and has done. Gemma is a graduate of the Nottingham Vet School, one of the first graduates out of there in 2014, but she actually founded Worldwide Vets in 2011 when she was still a student.

I, I'm gonna pass it over to you, Gemma, first of all, welcome, but also to explain to us, For for those listening who don't know what Worldwide Vets is, explain to us what Worldwide Vets is and what it does. Absolutely. So thank you so much for that introduction.

And lovely to, to be here talking with you today. So, Worldwide Vets is a UK registered NGO and 501c3 registering organisation in America as well. And we essentially work around the world trying to help stray animals, working animals, and pets owned in areas struggling with poverty.

So we work in currently 10 different countries. Across 4 continents, providing animal care, treatment, welfare training, providing medical supplies, medicines, equipment, volunteer vets, outreach, and also, mental health and wellness training as well for veterinary surgeons. And at the moment, we've got a presence in, in Africa, through Zimbabwe, Tanzania, and South Africa, and Peru and Costa Rica, down in South America, Thailand, Where we focus on dogs and cats, India, Egypt, we're focusing on working equines, also Guatemala.

And more recently, a heavy focus on Ukrainian animal medicine and rescue. And I know Gemma when I spoke to you, I think it was at BBA Live last last year. You'd actually just come back from Ukraine and obviously, you know, quite scary times because you're, you're not anywhere in the country is dangerous, obviously, but you were pretty close to the front line as well, weren't you?

Yeah. So I was in Ukraine for, just over 5 months last year, from April onwards. And it actually started as a mission to find out how to best utilise funds raised for equines in Ukraine.

And we're struggling with knowledge on how best to to send that money, you know, what would reduce the requirement for transport of, for instance, purchasing food and medicines in the UK and sending them over. And it became clear to me the best way to really get an understanding of how to use those donations responsibly was to go into Ukraine. Meet with local, medicine dealers, horse yards, owners, vets.

I really get a feel for it from the ground. So, I did go in and I very much snowballed into 5 months of animal rescue, veterinary care work. We were down on the frontline quite a lot, by Mikola Kerson and so on, treating animals along the front line that had been abandoned.

And were injured by the war. And also running spare neuter campaigns to try and reduce the, the booming population of, of these stray animals. So, yes.

And, yeah, there's a lot coming for Ukraine this year as well. It's, it's an ongoing work. We really like to provide sustainable support.

So it's, it's been a real learning curve for me. It's definitely not, if you'd have told me as a graduate, you'll be going into a war zone, and treating animals, I wouldn't have believed you. But here we are.

Hm, well, you know, amazing work that you're doing and part of the reason obviously, you know, I wanted you to go on the podcast just to thank you for, you know, that great work that you are doing. You know, it, it is a shocking time and a, a terrible time to, to see so much destruction and of course the animals get caught in the middle of it, don't they? They do.

And I mean, we've seen really terrible things. We've seen animals you know, intentionally maimed. By soldiers.

But even just the abandonment, you can be down on the front line, and there's hundreds of animals running through villages that have been abandoned and that, you know, golden retrievers and pugs and setters. They're people's pets. So to see that, and they come up to you very lovingly and very eager for attention.

And it's really heartbreaking seeing that. And you struggle with the feeling that, you know, you can't reach them all and you, you can't treat every single one. And, It's more about doing what we can for the animals that we can reach one day at a time, treat as many animals as you possibly can, finish your day knowing you've done as best you can with the 24 hours given to you, and start again the next day.

And I always say it's not just about the animals because down, you know, within Ukraine in the areas that are under attack, We all know how important our pets are. I think most of us would, would give up our family before we give up our pets. They are family.

And that's exactly the same in Ukraine. People are living in wine cellars being bombed every evening in bed with their dog. You know, that is the living being that is keeping them as a reason to get up in the morning.

It is their companion, it is their family. And that pet, It's so important to those people in that times of stress, when they've lost family members, you know, their sons and husbands are out fighting, when they perhaps didn't necessarily want to go. People have been killed and lost, their homes are flattened.

Your pet becomes even more important. And so we're not just rescuing and treating animals, we're also helping the owners and the people of Ukraine through doing that. It's all part of this one health, isn't it, which is very much everything is holistic, so the, the people, the pets, but also the planet, and I know.

The work that you do in Africa and in, in other countries, there's very much also a a conservation of the wildlife and of the, the natural world as part of your remit as well, isn't it? Tell us maybe a little bit about some examples of that. Absolutely.

So, my main goal when I graduated was to work with wildlife. And in Ukraine, it came in very handy that I happened to have treated an awful lot of big cats in Africa, because we got pulled in for an unexpected emergency evacuation of 9 lions from a zoo, which I was able to do, thankfully, based on the conservation work that I've done in Africa, but Through the Southern African countries, we really focused on conservation of the rhino, big cats, and all, all the species underneath. The flagships are the most impressive and exciting, but everything underneath is really important.

And on that vein as well, the community and working with them, giving them a reason to want to conserve their own wildlife is for me, incredibly valuable because You know, one person or one team can only really do so much. You can only save so many snared animals, and you can only, heal so many, you know, dehorning attempts on rhinos. But by bringing the community and and talking to them, and giving them a vested interest in their own, heritage, that's how you really start to change the world in the long term and make a difference for animal welfare, and conservation.

And give these species a chance to, you know, be present in, in the generations to come. So we, tie up with a number of different charitable organisations every year. We have volunteer vets and students, nurses and techs come out and join us, with wildlife work, be that dehorning the rhinos, translocating elephants to, increase the flow of of genetics across different reserves.

Removing snares, a whole range of, of work. And the wildlife work really is, really is very special. Hm.

Brilliant. I was at a talk, given by the Born Free Foundation before Christmas, and they were talking about some of the conservancies in Kenya. Obviously, huge problems with poaching and yet because they managed to get more of the community involved in that particular year, no rhino had been poached, which is.

Which is massive and obviously . Also spoke recently to the, the person who's looking after the two final northern white rhino, which are obviously now functionally extinct because they're two females, although it's interesting, that was at an event, for nature's sake, and they're actually trying to conserve tissue in the hope that at some point they can help bring some of the species back. But obviously the best way is, is to keep these species and, and to regenerate and to increase numbers as well, so it's it's fabulous work and I think also bringing the community in, if, if it continues to be something where foreign people come into African countries, you know, that's not, that's not seen as being appropriate in Africa because it's almost like a colonial thing, isn't it, whereas.

If the local communities are looking after the animals, that's much more self-sustaining, isn't it? Absolutely. And that, that's a global approach.

So you can't come into a country and insist on how they treat their animals or what their people do. And at the same time, as a country, they can't single-handedly save all the species in their country. They need, good, sustainable, ethical tourism, you know, photo tourism.

To be encouraged from internationals and they need support from charities, and, you know, for instance, training up their vets to do a better work. A lot of that comes from us bringing in international veterinary doctors that have experience and providing that training. So it really is, it's, it's, it's a global effort.

No, it's really important and I think also, you know, from, from my perspective as somebody who's very interested and and trying to make a difference in conservation, but also in the UK, you know, we are one of the most nature denuded countries, one of the least wooded countries in Europe. You know, we, we need to also learn from other people because we're not doing a great job of it ourselves in in the UK so it's, it's important to. To be very open to learning from each other, isn't it?

It is. And I think that's why, working with wildlife is just such a massive impact on, you know, the vets and the students, the techs and the nurses that come out and work with us, coming from, I mean, even from the States, from Australia, from Europe, they're not used to seeing that size of wildlife and that sheer diversity and immersing themselves in nature that's so entirely consuming that it's just everything that you could see to the horizon. And as you find that it really being in those environments changes people, not just as a, as a medic, but as a person, we're actually starting up.

A new initiative, for mental health awareness. We're going to be basing seven-day CPD courses in Africa. And the idea is to just get people into this environment where all of a sudden, you can see to the horizon all around you.

You are the smallest, weakest species on, on in the savannah. And, you know, and understanding yourself and the the limits as a person of what you can do. And also the difference you can make in the world around you, just by taking, you know, small steps every day.

I think wildlife and nature, it just, it It inspires people, and that's for me, one of the main reasons I want to conserve it. It's so important for us as a, as a species. I was down at Slimbridge, which is the big wildfire and Wetland Trust Centre in Gloucester at the weekend.

And, you know, spending time within nature, looking at birds, seeing two water rail that are usually very secretive and you can't see them, that gives you a big sort of thrill. And you know, there's no doubt that nature helps mental health and there is a mental health issue. And and part of, you know, the solution is, is to immerse ourselves in nature, to be doing things positively for nature, to see ourselves as a part of the world rather than as kind of.

Lords of the, of, of nature I think is, is something that's really, really important because we did something at our virtual congress last year, we had a psychiatrist on and she was talking about solostalgia, which is this existential dread of the planet is going to be destroyed and so therefore, why do we bother about doing anything, but also becoming very depressed by it and. I think you said before when you were talking about Ukraine, you know, when I helped that one dog. OK, it doesn't sound like a lot because it's one dog or 10 dogs in a day or however many, but for that one dog, it makes a huge difference and actually if we all do our little bit, and you're doing a lot, obviously, but if we all do our bit, a little bit adds up to a lot if we all do it.

Absolutely. And you know, I always say that I'm just one cog in in, you know, the greatest scheme. We would be Able to do hardly any of what we do without our, our volunteers and our, you know, support team.

We have vets come out to our outreach clinics, about 300 to 400 volunteers every year to the 10 different countries. So that's vet students getting clinical experience and surgical experience, for instance, in the, the dog and cat spa neuter clinics, or qualified vets training up local, doctors and, helping increase the numbers of animals we can reach. So without those people, we really wouldn't be able to, to touch the sides of what we're doing.

And even this year alone, I mean, we've had some fantastic donations. Vettel have got on board and donated X-ray and ultrasound units for Ukraine, butterfly IQ have donate, they donated 2. Ultrasound units for Ukrainian vets alone, and two more that are off to South America at the moment.

So donated X-ray equipment for international work, pulse vet donated shock wave to be able to treat chronic wounds and dogs, cats and horses in Ukraine. But Boeing and Engleheim donated omeprazole to to help a sick, one of our sick hand-raised manatees in Peru. So it's a real variety of organisations that have got on board.

And that, you know, with our donors, we We're, we're a team, we're a unit. There's, it's not just one person. Obviously what we'll do, you know, underneath the podcast is leave details of websites and emails.

So presumably, as you've said, you know, more vets, volunteering and nurses presumably to go and work in, in, some of these areas would be really beneficial, but also I know a lot of the, you know, the people from bigger companies listen to this podcast, so. If they, if they can help in any way, then of course it'd be great for them to get in contact with you. And thank you for all those people who have already stepped up to the plate.

No, absolutely. I mean, as I say, it's, it's a team effort. And, if anyone does want to, to find out a little bit more, so Worldwideetts.com is the website.

And from there, you can head to the contact us or you can look at what we're doing in Ukraine. You can see all the different countries we're working. And that's the easiest way just to reach out if you're interested in, in volunteering or getting involved or just want to chat about the work we're doing and find out how you can help.

So we Just having that that variety of people interested in supporting is really valuable. Do you want to become a part of the largest online veterinary community in the world? The webinar vet's membership is the perfect tool to easily complete your veterinary CPD or CE.

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You know, obviously your, your passion comes through on the podcast, it did when I met you at the the congress last year and. Obviously I can see that this has been something that's been something really important to you for a long time and, you know, purpose centred and obviously loving of people and of animals. I'm fascinated actually by the fact that you became a vet in 2014, but you actually founded the charity in or the NGO in 2011, so you were a student.

Tell me a little bit about that sort of history of, you've obviously, I, I guess being somebody who's loved animals all their life pretty much. So where did this idea suddenly and, you know, still as a student trying to concentrate on passing vet exams is, is hard enough, but you were also setting up a, an NGO, so tell me that story. Yeah, so, .

I travelled a lot for a couple of years before university. I am a travel bug through and through, always have been. Africa was the continent that really got me hooked to travel.

And it changed my life, as we're talking about before, you know, just the the environment that you're in. The world that you see when you're in Africa, for those of you that are listening to this that have been, and they'll know the, the saying that Africa gets under your skin and into your blood, and it's very true. And, it really ignited my desire to travel.

And I saw, it was actually in India, just a massive number of animals that needed treatment, that couldn't receive it. The local charity clinic didn't have the funds or the You know, they weren't able to travel to that area. And the more I travelled, the more I saw that this was a really big problem.

And there were just so many animals needing treatment. And then at the same time, back at university, my colleagues would be saying, oh, you know, I struggling to get good surgical training, like, I feel, you know, I want to travel and I want to give something back, even as a student, but especially as a graduate. And it just started occurring to me, well, there's a brilliant way that we can combine these two things.

We can have people that want to give, and students that want to learn and graduates, you know, who want to give back. And we can create and support clinics that need more hands on the ground, more financial support, and more awareness raising. So, I started linking the two.

The, the idea of Worldwide Vets was formed. And really, it, it snowballed from there to start working with more clinics, across more continents, doing more individual outreach to help animals. And we're always growing, as I say, the, the mental health, CPD courses are a new thing this year.

We've started doing outreach, in Guatemala, Zanzibar, it's a whole different, set of areas that we weren't able to reach before. So it just, yeah, it's, it's really blossomed from when I was a student back just wanting to help small organisations reach more animals to what it is today. It's interesting that the mental health aspect.

I was on a a webinar yesterday as a school governor and hearing about the problems in children and how many children, you know, in school age, say they're struggling with mental health, . We actually did the first mindfulness series with the Royal College about 7 or 8 years ago now, and obviously all of our training is, you know, really high quality and people will come up and say thank you, that was a great course. But actually with the mindfulness training, and we, we've continued to, you know, do things on sleep and so on.

But with a mindfulness training, people would come up to me and say, actually, you know, this has changed my life, thank you so much for arranging this because I'm not shouting at my nurses in the practise. I'm going on holiday and I'm actually being able to relax and not think about the practise all the time, so. The, the, the mindfulness and, you know, mental health training I think is massively important and, and obviously .

You know, I applaud you for, you know, continuing to work in that area as well. Yeah, we're hoping to take all of that and to put it in a stunning environment, you know, in the middle of nature in a beautiful lodge, and mix it with, you know, things that that do push your boundaries, walking with wildlife, you know, all those things and then just really create a holistic, life changing experience. And I'm very excited for that.

Yeah, no, it sounds exciting. I've been doing something. Similar, trying to facilitate the profession to regenerate into a more hopeful, environmentally friendly and sustainable space.

So last year we did the Veterinary green discussion forum and we had about 25, you know, of the bigger companies and associations coming together and we held that at a nature reserve in Preston. And part of our time there was also helping to rake up the wildflower meadows to get them ready for this year and you know we were carrying frogs back into safety, little froglets that were in amongst all of that. By actually grounding people in nature, they then see the importance of saving it much more than if you held that meeting at a, you know, a posh hotel in the middle of Birmingham or something, so yeah, it's, it sounds great what you're doing and I do hope that that works really successfully for, for you, .

I enjoyed my time in Africa. I took a sabbatical 2006 and had three months travelling around, so I, I know you either love Africa or you hate it, I think it either, it gets under your skin one way or the other, and I think both of us obviously share a love for it, but one of my other favourite countries that I visited, one of the most biodiverse places in the world I've been told is Costa Rica, and I know you're doing some work there as well, so tell us about what you're getting up to in Costa Rica. Absolutely.

So we have, a veterinarian based full time in a wildlife sanctuary in Costa Rica. And he is treating, purely wildlife. We get the occasional domestic animal bought in, and we do once a fortnightly outreaches, pas neuters and vaccinations for the community.

To improve the relationship with them for the wildlife gain, really. And Costa Rica, as you can imagine, you know, there's some big roads running through really well, stocked wildlife areas. And there's things like primates, hit on the road, birds injured, trapped in wires.

We have tapis, injured tapis, so the anteaters, I mean, that's just a week's worth that's come in, you know, within, within the last week. So. It's, it's a really awesome project, because Costa Rica itself is just pure jungle, and it's stunning and it's beautiful, and people are lovely.

But yes, you've got the human wildlife conflict of an awful lot of tourism and an awful lot of movement of people around. And, our main goal is to return all the wildlife possible back out to nature. And those that can't, then they have a permanent, safe space in the sanctuary.

And we have mostly vet students and nurses and techs coming through to do a work experience underneath that vet, and gain exotics, knowledge on, you know, both the husbandry and the preventative and reactive medicine side of, of wildlife work. And is the vet there a Costa Rican or European? No, it's Costa Rican.

Costa Rican. So, each, each project that we work, we, we employ a local, veterinarian. And then we also do have a rotating team of qualified vets with, you know, more experience in that field, come out and provide further training to him.

So they'll come for 2 weeks to a month. You know, if they feel, primate specialists, angular specialists, and so on who have something to develop the skills of, of the local vet. And then they give something back to that vet, and then that vet then trains, local and international students.

So it's it's really special. I think Costa Rica has a lot to teach us. It doesn't have a standing army.

And he's actually been really successful at. Beginning to reforest again, so . I, I'm one of our vets who works with us is is actually based in Costa Rica as well, so it's .

Doing some fabulous work and we can, as I say, learn from other countries. Yeah, it's unique in that it really has no formal tourism focus, other than wildlife. There's some beautiful big boulders that you can go and visit that have historical relevance.

But beyond that, I mean, it, it's beautiful wildlife areas, nature, and it just goes to show that Costa Rica is such a hot destination for, for travel. People want to go and see nature. They want to go and see animals and, photograph and enjoy and be immersed in that.

It doesn't have pyramids. It doesn't have old buildings. It doesn't have any of that.

It just has the wild and people love that. I think finally it's interesting, you know, we've just had the, the ocean treaty agreed and obviously a lot on 30 by 30. It's us seeing that possibility of rewilding some of our own areas in the UK.

To, to an extent where they are much more . Encouraging of tourists coming in to actually watch wildlife because obviously a lot of our national parks are very green. But it's a monoculture of grass and there's not a great deal of biodiversity in those areas.

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you've got to a lot of people want to travel and do things internationally, but being at home and and looking at the world that we live in, and how we can best support that is just as valuable. They say the grass is greenest way you water it.

So no, I absolutely agree with you. Gemma, it's been great speaking to you. As a student, I visited, Zimbabwe and had a really great time there.

I know you're there at the moment and very, very busy, so the fact that you've been able to. Get some time in from your diary and and give that to us is is really appreciated, and thank you for all the fabulous work you're doing in conservation, but also this frontline work that you've been doing in Ukraine, it's such a, Distressing and upsetting situation that is happening there, but it's, it's great to see people like yourself getting involved and and making a difference for people and for pets. Yeah, no, and I always say, people think, oh, how can I get involved, you know, I, I can't necessarily give, you know, a month to come and volunteer in Peru or I don't want to go into Ukraine, but there's so much need for such a wide variety of support, be it people coming out and volunteering.

The donation of supplies that are no longer in use, secondhand equipment that we can take out to the Amazon, you know, to use on the wildlife, even just this podcasts, links to newspapers, spreading information, getting into schools, talking to kids, Financial donations. There's, there's a huge variety of ways that people can support. So if, if you hear this and you think, crikey, I want to make a difference.

I'm just not sure how or, you know, I know exactly how, please do head over to worldwidebets.com, reach out. And yeah, we just love to to talk about what we do and how we do it and how other people can support because it's, as I said, global effort.

And the more hands on deck, and the better and the bigger impact we can make around the world as a team. So the more people we can welcome to our family, the better. Yeah, well, I love these hopeful stories, you know, the positive stories where we see that, you know, we can make a difference sometimes, you know, with, with small numbers, but the, the actual impact can be massive.

So thank you for the great work you're doing. I'm, I'm so pleased that we've got to to chat on the podcast. And for those listening, please do go and have a look at the website and get in touch with Gemma and her team and see how you can help because it's such a.

A worthy cause. Thank you so much for today. Gemma, thank you so much, thanks for all the work you're doing and thanks everyone for listening.

This is Anthony Chadwick at the Webinar vet, and this has been Vet Chat. Take care.